skypapa

Sorry. Try again. That is not fraud.

The second one dollar exchanges hands between two individuals in payment for an agreed upon service it is no longer a sport, it is a business. BTW - You chose to bring skyride into this thread not me. Mods - Please do not delete this thread, I did not ask for skyride to be discussed. I would prefer to keep skyride out of this thread if possible.

We all know the Microsofts and the IBM's of the world probably cut some corners and stepped on some toes to get to where they are today. Is this world we live in better off because organizations such as these took the steps to get to where they are? Haven't we all benefited in one way, shape, or form because of these practices? Isn't this just part of natural evolution? Their marketing efforts and business practices most likely consisted of numerous lies and deception and probably hurt some organizations along the way. But arent we all better off because of it? (Minus a few casualties along the way) In the world of corporate america is it ok to accept the dog eat dog mentality and the lies that go along with it or should these types of practices be banished from the business world altogether?

Just know not only is this poster a troll but he's also using a proxy to try to hide his identiy even further. Troll no. Proxy yes. What does it matter? I am simply stating the facts. Here you go again focusing on something that doesnt even matter. Amazing thing is how many people actually agree with me. I guess you could consider me the voice of reason.

Ok, I understand that I'm biting at a troll, but.... Skyride can be "beat"! Skyride sells virtually zero certificates in Kansas, primarily because no Kansas DZ accepts the certificates. They may be selling a few in the Kansas City KS area because they have a DZ on the MO side. DZOs do not need to join, but rather learn! I've said it before, and I'll most likely say it again. Skyride garners in my estimate well in excess of 95% of their customers through Pay Per Click search engine advertising. Every DZO that values their student traffic should have learned by now this fact, and be running their own PPC ads. It's not at all expensive, it's also easy to do, and you're only paying for traffic searching for skydiving, as opposed to most other media. In my opinion DZOs "join" Skyride because their short sighted, and lazy (won't do their own marketing). Skyride can be beat? Well then what's the problem? Why all the talk and no action? Excuses excuses excuses. Arent you people generally the first to offer some cheese to go along with the "wine". Well guess what people, you guys deserve one hell of a big fucking piece of cheese. The DZO's that join are not lazy nor are they shortsighted, they simply understand the concept of business and partnering in the business world. Get over it. Move on and understand that this world we all live in is not always fair (especially the business world). If you guys took the collective energy and frustration that has been poured into beating this dead horse I bet you could have come up with a real world "solution" to this so called "problem". Come on brainiacs, how about it? Quit yer bitching and figure out a solution to this so called dilemma. Here's a hint: The solution does not involve shutting them down, it aint gonna happen.

The ONLY people who have any right to be upset about skyride are the DZO's that think they are affected by their practices. Once again, I say "think" because I truly do not believe skyride has in any way shape or form harmed anybodies business whatsoever. If it has done anything, it has improved the industry and the business itself as a whole. All you gunslinging skydivers have no business whatsoever commenting on this issue. Perhaps USPA should use some of its funds to hire a mediator in order to discuss a partnership with skyride. Now that would make more sense, potentially produce some results, and put an end to all the crying once and for all.

I agree with your first sentence, the *concept* of what they're doing isn't a bad concept. If they'd stop the practice of falsifying dropzones, misleading the public, charging for normal practices as though they were "extras," strong-arming DZ's, stealing/rerouting phone numbers, illegally using photographs, and began to present an integrous and honest face, I can see a national booking service in the skydiving industry working very well. I suspect most rational people would agree with that concept. There IS already a national booking service and it IS working very well. Come on people, learn to think outside the box. If you cant beat 'em (which you obviously can't) then join em.

What in fact are they doing that is so helpful? They're not advertising any differently than a regular DZ would. If they were, then yes, they might be bringing new business into the market. It seems that all they do is create fake websites, and optimize their results from search engines. The people who end up with Skyride are already looking for a DZ online. If Skyride wasn't cock-blocking the real DZ websites, these people would simply find the website for a legitimate DZ in their area. They would then receive better service, and get their jump for a lower price. This is where Skyride is a scam. They don't bring anything to the table, they just take things away from the table. If they were running some national TV spots with a cute dog or a garden gnome, then yes, they would be doing something helpful, but that is not the case. How do we now or in the future benefit from this? Perhaps the non-participating dropzones should learn how to advertise and market their services a little better. Business is generally had on a first come first serve basis. Dont bitch and moan about this just because skyride is perhaps a little bit better at running a business than some. Hell, perhaps skyride should start offering a marketing 101 course to DZO's. You guys could probably learn a thing or two.

J, Thank you for sharing that information. It appears as though Skyride is making great strides in expanding the availability of dropzones across the country. That is great news. The support so far is great. Now, what do you suggest we do to make that list even longer? Remember - I am not affiliated with Skyride in any way shape or form. I for one just realize what they are doing is not necessarily a bad thing. With a little work, I think we all will soon benefit from their services.

This is another indirect attack at skyride isnt it? When are you people going to get over yourselves?

BTW - I am also a ethical, honest and thoughtful member. Sad some of you dont see it that way.

You really came to the wrong place to play devil's advocate, unless you just wanted to see your thread burst into flames for entertainment value. What YOU seem to forget is that the message being sent is that the means do not justify the ends, and that your justification that it's "business" is inadequate. What a breath of fresh air that people care about how things are done! You just happen not to like the side we see. It's not about playing devils advocate, it's about having an open mind. Something you people are not capable of doing.

What about the DZO's that do accept it? Is it wrong for them to want to grow their business? People seem to forget that it is in fact a business for these people. Many sides to this story, unfortunately you people only see one of the sides. How about this, skyride tells it's customers up front that they are in FACT a booking agency, and are merely taking a % off the top for a skydive that another company is actually providing? Fair and honest. How about you not tell other companies how to run their business and you leave that up to them?

What about the DZO's that do accept it? Is it wrong for them to want to grow their business? People seem to forget that it is in fact a business for these people. Many sides to this story, unfortunately you people only see one of the sides.

You mean like this one?? See attached. An Attorney General can only Seek an Injunction. A Judge must Grant the injunction. That takes a good bit of time. Once again, if the fraud is serious enough, it will happen. Obviously this so called criminal activity isnt serious enough to warrant doing so.

You left you the part about giving a portion of your profits to an out-of-state company that pretty much held your customers hostage until you gave in to their demands. What's your deal anyway? How about you man up and fill in your profiel so we know who you are and where your coming from? Are you now, or have you ever been in business for yourself? Have you ever run a DZ? They have the right to hold the customer hostage, it is their customer not yours. However, they are kind enough to offer a percentage of the customer they find, marketed for, and closed. All you have to do is deliver the service. Once again, a no brainer.

Because some people don’t like Theft. Most businesses are actually Honest so there is no need to STEAL anything. Their Game is FRAUD, Lies and Deception. Honest Businesses don’t play that game. If they are so fraudulent will someone please explain to me why they are still in business? And please dont point out the numerous lawsuits. If a company is blatantly defrauding the public the attorney general will not think twice about granting an injunction....that obviously hasnt happened.

Why the "let me pretend I am asleep" reply? It's ok to beat the demise of skyride topic to death but its not ok to discuss the acceptance of it? No...because if you accept lying, cheating and stealing as an acceotable busniess approach then where does it stop... If I were to steal money out of your gearbag so that I could make a few jumps, doesn't THAT help skydiving in general too? Show me one example of an exact dollar amount they stole from a specific person or entity. Show me facts, not assumptions. There are currently cases on the docket in several states doing just that. Tell what in your opinion is an 'acceptable' amount to steal? How many MORE people need to complain they've been mis-led and cheated? Do you really believe it's okay to blatantly lie on dozens of websites? If you have no problem with any of this, a question character arises, if you DO then quit your job in the skyride boiler-room and open a DZ! They are doing something right, they are still in business. DZ's are still accepting their certificates, and their phones keep ringing. No one has proven otherwise in order to shut them down. I keep hearing the skydiving community will be victorious...doesnt seem that way. If you cant beat em, join em.

It simple really, they use stolen images and web content to create websites for DZ that don't exist and then proceed to sell skydives to people in one geographic area for a DZ in another geographic area. DZs are left to accept one of two things; either a portion of their customer base will take their money elsewhere, or they have to accept the Skyride certificates. Which would you do? The Skyride guys are taking advantage of the internet to strong-arm their way into the revenue stream from tandem jumps. It's a shitty thing to do. Its a no brainer. Accept their certificates. Drop the egos and get on with business.

Yeah. That really makes a lot of sense.

good try "anonymous". hahaha. PARK RANGER. PARK RANGER. Thats what I thought.

Name them. There is already a thread doing exactly that.

Why the "let me pretend I am asleep" reply? It's ok to beat the demise of skyride topic to death but its not ok to discuss the acceptance of it? No...because if you accept lying, cheating and stealing as an acceotable busniess approach then where does it stop... If I were to steal money out of your gearbag so that I could make a few jumps, doesn't THAT help skydiving in general too? Show me one example of an exact dollar amount they stole from a specific person or entity. Show me facts, not assumptions.

If they are so unethical and so bad for the sport, why have so many dz's agreed to accept their certificates?

Besides images, tell me how they rip people off?