Coreece

Oh come on Billy, it's obvious these kids are just a bunch of hateful punk teeangers! I mean they're wearing MAGA hats for Christ's sake! White ones too! And after Labor Day! Joan Rivers must be turning in her grave!

I'm curious about that as well. Either you're just flat out lying or you're regurgitating another lie. This is why it's so hard to take what you say at face value anymore.

QED

Right because they were pressured into doing so given the initial report by the media. Since then, the media has walked back their claims, and the Covington diocese apologized for prematurely condemning the students. Right, I thought this was settled, but if go back through this thread, you'll see that it was wolfriverjoe that couldn't "let it go."

True. Now that that's settled . . . . . .we all can concentrate on the efforts of groups like the CDC, among others that address the real issues that lead to good people doing bad things. Which is why we've been able to cut the crime rate in half despite doubling the amount of guns in this country over the last 30+ years or so. But that may not be as gratifying as sticking it to the gun loving conservatives and their dangerous toys.

The fundamental cause is the sheer number of guns in your country. I think we've been through this before. We have more guns now than ever, yet crime has been on a downward trend for the last 25+ years. And no, I'm not saying that the extra guns are the cause for that decline.

Wow, that's pretty lax. Over here in the US, simply showing a holstered pistol without even touching it could get you thrown in jail. Waving a gun around? That could get you killed very quickly, and justifiably so. You are missing the point (intentionally I suspect - it's that or stupidity and you get the benefit of the doubt) Right, because lying by implication is the "smart" way to make your point. Yep - the "good guy with a gun" myth needs to be put to sleep. Good guys with guns are not the fundamental cause of gun violence here in the US. Then why do you own one?

I'd agree that the US has a violent culture that needs to be addressed at a fundamental level, unfortunately tho, superficial "quick fixes" tend to get more of the attention. Wow, that's pretty lax. Over here in the US, simply showing a holstered pistol without even touching it could get you thrown in jail. Waving a gun around? That could get you killed very quickly, and justifiably so. Yeah, that's a big part of our culture too. Unless you're at war, that's pretty much the primary reason a gun is fired no matter where you live.

Nah, most people in this forum are so one-sided that it's not really necessary. Besides, identifying sarcasm is the fun part.

Yes, and as unfortunate as that is, it has nothing to do with these kids and the reason why they were at the Lincoln memorial to begin with. So again, why are you so desperate to draw that connection? You posted a video called "what actually happened," did you even bother to watch it? Because all you're doing is regurgitating the same false narrative from 2 months ago that the media has since walked back once they saw "what actually happened." On the one hand I have two eyewitnesses. On the other hand I have you - a right winger on the Internet who claims he knows better than them.  Or you can just admit that there is video evidence that generally trumps any contradictory statements made by only two witnesses out of 100-200+ people that even you are reluctant to identify by name. And BTW, it appears you may have lost your "Vietnam Vet" witness. Tough break, eh? No, but we have actual video which is the next best thing, and unfortunately for you it does not corroborate your "witnesses'" statement. I'd tend to rely more on objective video evidence, and you would too if you weren't so hellbent on sticking it to a "bunch of dick teens" whose sociopolitical ideology is different than yours. Let's face it, these kids represent a new generation of religious pro-lifers, and whether or not they actually support Trump, they more than likely support his stance on abortion, and you can't fucking stand it, which is why you feel such a desperate need to portray this as negatively as you possibly can't and continue to ignore anything that runs contrary to your false narrative. Honestly Bill, I think you might be projecting, and I'll tell you why. If it was a group of white nationalists and real Vietnam vets that were hurling insults to a diverse group of somewhat typically obnoxius kids that didn't display a specific sociopolitical identity that you disagreed with, and telling them all to "go back to where they came from," I'd still be defending the kids, and you'd probably agree with me instead of suggesting that they show some maturity and apologize to the white supremacists.

I showed you an image where I counted 5-6 red MAGA hats, lol. Wolfriver then made a good observation that there are also kids wearing white MAGA hats and multicolored MAGA stocking caps. So that brings the tally up to about 10 MAGA hats out of 40 heads in the original image that I showed you, so about 25%. I'd say that's a pretty fair estimate for other angles in your video as well. But maybe you think it's 35%, or 40%. Hell let's go 50% if that makes you feel better. Call the fashion police! You said there were only two witnesses out of all those people, but didn't name any, why is that? What Vietnam vet? The video does not indicate that this group of kids had a hateful mindset, in fact, on several occasions it showed quite the opposite. Right, but that was before the truth came out and before the media apologized for jumping the gun and getting it wrong. The Covington Bishop also apologized to the students for prematurely condemning them. Right, take caution when wearing MAGA hats on school trips to Washington D.C where there might be angry minorities, because superficial morons will jump the gun and falsely judge you solely based on what you wear and what you look like. I didn't. I was talking about the NARRATIVE - not the KIDS. And I think you know that. You said "the incident at the Lincoln Memorial - which included the kids wearing MAGA hats and chanting that was a good example of Trump supporters using hate to further divide America. And that is a very real narrative - as Heather Heyer's family can attest to." You didn't provide evidence of any hate, just a bunch of teenage boys jumping up and down with MAGA hats. How does that even remotely apply to the Charlottesville narrative, and why did you even bring it up if you weren't trying to compare the two? If you had them chanting, "build that wall, build that wall," then you would've satisfied the burden of having to support your claims. But you didn't, so all you really have is "OMG, They're wearing MAGA hats!" It wasn't perfect, but the kids should be applauded for how they handled themselves in the midst of such hatred directed at them.

Yep. And other pictures, showing other angles, showed a lot more. Then show me, because I can't find any. The infamous angle that made TV showed 3 of those same 5 hats in a much smaller frame, so maybe you just perceived it that way without any further consideration. Oh, how convenient. Who? So you have no video and two questionable witnesses out of all the people involved and this is the main narrative? And then you compare these kids to a white nationalist that murdered someone? Ya, like I said - lame and unnecessarily desperate. Well that's probably because there is no video of them chanting "Build the Wall!" as billvon already acknowledged. However we do have video of the kids standing up for gays against the homophobic slurs of black nationalists and how Nick Sandmann and his classmate showed self control in diffusing the situation, which is hardly inline with the "white nationalist murderer" narrative that bills trying to compare it to. So maybe it's you guys that "only believe what they want to."

Are you claiming they weren't wearing MAGA hats Ok, so we have about 5, maybe 6 kids wearing MAGA hats out of a group of at least 40 in this picture as they wait for their bus by the Lincoln memorial where there were brown people. What is the world coming to! Honestly, I didn't hear it in any of the videos that I saw of this incident. Is it out of the realm of possibility? No, of course not, and I wouldn't be surprised if a couple ignorant students actually did mutter it at some point, but I wouldn't say that it defines the situation, nor is it representative of the groups behavior as a whole, especially when given more context.

What is botherism, and what false equivalence are you talking about? Continuing to push this false narrative is unnecessarily desperate and rather lame.

This is the type of bias/denial/defensiveness we're talking about. Thanks for the example.

Because they don't want to believe that the purported attack on Smollet is 'quite relevant'. They want to pretend that those sorts of attacks don't happen and never did happen. Perhaps. I suppose there are different reasons and/or levels of denial/defensiveness. The left tends to exploit news of hatred like this to further their political agenda, and the right exploits news of sex-trafficking rings and violent illegals to further their political agenda, so people get defensive.

The only weaseling going on here is from you and Billy V. Yep, weasel around your ignorant comments and then when called out on it, shout "I know you are but what am I?" Just about what I expected.

Suggest you look at Table 2 of this report, which confirms my claim about Alabama's ranking for life without parole for nonviolent offenders. https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/111813-lwop-complete-report.pdf Also http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/11/aclu_alabama_3rd_in_state_pris.html and https://www.criminal-defense-attorney.info/2013/12/three-strikes-laws-under-scrutiny Still weaseling I see. None of those explain your erroneous statement that we were actually talking about.

I agree. I would guess because there are elements of truth to it, but they don't feel that that type of hatred represents how they really feel and who they are as a whole. It's the same reason people get defensive about illegal immigrants that kill people, or Mexican sex-traffickers crossing unsecured border points. There is truth to it, but it doesn't represent the whole of the situation.

So which part is false? Does Billy not live in Alabama? Is Alabama not a "red state"? Was Alabama's " Habitual Felony Offender Act" not passed in 1977? Does it not require that repeat offenders be sentenced to life imprisonment without possibility of parole and remove sentencing discretion from judges? Well it appears that you've identified your error given that you didn't repeat it in your list of questions above. Now, would you like to tell us why you were wrong? Btw, nice weasling. . . . . .snicker.

Right - but that's because the right wing outrage machine is much, much more efficient than the left wing's. No one has an echo chamber like FOX News. Compare the coverage of Smollett on FOX to the coverage of Mohl on CNN. Compare the MSM coverage of Smollett's initial attack when it was considered to be true, to anything that Mohl ever did.

Funny, because the right seems to REALLY, REALLY give a lot of shits about a two-bit troll named Smollett. So do those on the left, and rightly so. Also, I wouldn't consider Smollett to be a two-bit troll. He clearly has more influence as a successful black homosexual actor up until now. Mohl, or whatever his name is wasn't nearly as visible to the right as smollett was to the left, and his antics hardly received the same amount of media attention that Smollett's initially did.

What is "ignorant" about stating that Alabama, Billy's home state run by Republicans, was first out of the gate with a three strikes law (in 1977) It's a false statement based on ignorance.

If "three strikes" is SO bad, why was your home and deep red state of Alabama the first to institute it Is this like one of your teaching techniques? Just make a bunch of ignorant statements hoping your students have just enough contempt to set out in proving you wrong? At least Jerry was big enough to admit his mistake and move on. . .

Rush, what are your thoughts on this? He submitted faked threats against himself to law enforcement, is guilty of securities fraud and attempted to falsely implicate a federal officer in a sexual assault charge. Normally I'd hold my breath and give him time to respond first, but. . .anyway, to be fair, I think that we never would have heard about this story if the Smollett incident didn't prompt Bill to dig it up in the first place, because nobody on either side really gives a shit about some two-bit internet troll and his opinion about how dangerous Minneapolis is. But what Smollett did was falsely reinforce an idea that half the country might be a bunch of violent, homophobic racists lurking in the alleys just waiting for the right moment to MAGA! So be afraid!, be very Afraid! And btw, don't forget to get out and vote so travesties like these never happen again! A more comparable story would've been if Ann Coulter falsely claimed that she was kidnapped in Tijuana, duct tapped, thrown in a trunk and driven across an unsecured border where she then miraculously, by the pure grace of God, escaped the greasy hands of a dirty mexican sex-trafficking cartel!