DocPop

Is it just me or does "quad bracing' sound like something you might need after you've hooked it into the ground and suffer a paralyzing spinal injury? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Not heard that word before, but it does seem appropriate in this case. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Yes, they wouldn't all fit under the bed anymore. And no room in the closet because of all the skeletons? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Could you elaborate on the alternative explanation? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

All of this suspicion of a cover-up or conspiracy theory etc could be put to bed if someone from the USPA would make an official statement regarding the incident, investigation and outcome. We could then all discuss the official facts instead of having to surmise, keep secrets and piece together things from different sources. The USPA is supposed to work for its membership. It seems like the general membership is deliberately being kept in the dark here. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thank you, too. This was what I was trying, but failing to get across. Maybe only the "cool kids" are allowed to know? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Then what happened? Because several jumpers from the DZ, friends of the injured, and others have substantiated that this is in fact what happened. In this and the original incident thread. Otherwise all your doing is adding to the rumors you claim to be fighting against. Thank you. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Well, then what did? I really don't understand why that's so hard to answer. Thank you. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Can you explain why you can't share those facts with the rest of us? Thank you. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

If you're not willing to provide information here because it's not "YOUR JOB" then don't expect everyone here to be all-knowing. If you want something set straight, then set it straight. If you're not prepared to do that - don't whine about it. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Plan your canopy flight (with the help of an experienced pilot if you like). This means knowing where over the ground your turns will be made and at what altitude. Build your pattern from the ground up. E.g. - if I want to land here, I need to turn to final at 300' here - if I want to turn to final at 300' here, I need to turn to base at 600' here - if I want to turn to base at 600' here, I need to start my downwind at 900' here [actual numbers are not set in stone] FLY THE PLAN as closely as you can. Debrief, either on your own or with a canopy coach, to find out why you landed where you did. - were your turn checkpoints wrong? - did the weather change between planning and jumping? - did you have to divert from your plan due to traffic etc? - did you just fail to hit your checkpoints? When you have analysed your jumps, adjust your pattern checkpoints, jump and repeat the process. This method relies on data gathering and will allow you to build the skill of overlaying your pattern onto any target you choose. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

This is getting ridiculous. A BOD member injures a spectator doing something stupid; the USPA should come out with a statement within a couple of days, and then a further one after investigation. This "code of silence" is causing much more damage than would the above actions. Also, for those people posting "I know stuff that you don't but won't tell you" - just grow up. If you can't/won't share it then just keep quiet about it. If you have to feel good about yourself by implying that you are in the inner circle then that's a pretty pathetic situation. If you know something that can be shared then for fuck's sake share it and stop criticizing those who don't have that information. The apparent secrecy around this whole incident is making it much, much worse than it already was. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

The change in planform is not really a factor here - the VE is less tapered than the KA and has a lower aspect ratio. The fact that it is a x-brace is largely irrelevant in this, as x-braces are designed to fly well at higher WL than non-braced canopies. I'm not defending the decision. I don't know the guy - I could not possibly do that. What I am trying to do is counter (with facts) the knee-jerk reaction that this is a massive jump in performance and therefore unsafe in any situation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

It's not that much of a stretch. Not recommended, perhaps, but only equivalent to skipping one size. PD's recommended Velocity after a KA120 is the VE103 - one size above the 96. I did the KA120 to VE103 transition and the difference was pretty gentle. The Katana is a no-shit divey mo-fo and, in the PD progression I think that the big jump is from the Sabre2 to the Katana. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Only 11 years later.... "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I started off jumping a 200 as a student then downsized as recommended (size by size) and am currently jumping a 103. The transition from SA2 170 to SA2 150 felt like the second biggest change I have ever made (the biggest was moving from a SA2 150 to a Katana 135, but that was a downsize plus a change to a much more aggressive canopy type). IMO you need to be super-comfortable and practiced in all basic canopy skills (including flat-turns, flare turns, stalls, slow flight mode etc..) on your 170 before considering a downsize. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Yup! But back to the incident being discussed... Just out of curiosity - Has anyone voicing their strong opinions regarding the character & alleged reckless behavior of this BOD member actually spoken with him about what happened? Or for that matter anybody talk to Tyfani to get her take on what happened? Maybe it's just me, but when I step back and look at the big picture as far as the discussions thus far - it seems a fair amount of speculation & hearsay is being considered absolute and verifiable fact. I've seen a few 'testimonials' given by people that say they were there and witnessed the incident, yet even their recollections don't seem to match. I see where there have been a couple investigations by the governing body and their findings didn't seem to deem expulsion necessary. Again...maybe it's just me - but I'll reserve judgement until ALL the facts are on the table & that just isn't the case here...yet. I've been following this thread pretty closely. That being said, I find it interesting how so many are calling for this, demanding that, opinionating on everything, and wanting immediate action. The bottom line here people; USPA has a procedure in place to cover this whole situation... VOTE! That's right, you (each and every one of you) have the right to cast your vote. So, VOTE! It's that simple. Stop bitching, crying, complaining, making up facts, etc. and VOTE. Yep.... it's just that simple. Cool ... where do I vote? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I take the following view: - two-outs are largely preventable by gear maintenance and checks, and not pulling low/respecting your hard deck. - the chances of me having a two-out are way less than me having to fly a reserve normally. - I should prepare, and choose my equipment for the safest landing with the commonest reserve scenario, not some unlikely event. Finally, I would really encourage people to demo a reserve as a main. I did and it changes the reserve question from guesswork to "I flew that and I am happy" or "I flew that and I think I need to go bigger". i.e. it is based on your own empirical dataset. Hope to see you at the DZ soon, buddy. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

No, it certainly isn't. But it is about trying to be at the perfect altitude for your turn every time. That may be "swooping" but it certainly isn't canopy piloting. CP involves trying to be as consistent as possible; having a plan and trying to stick to it as closely as possible every time. I hope you're not advocating a hit and miss approach of using "all kinds of different altitudes" and then making up your turn on the fly. That is not recommended for either safety or skill progression. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Very. First downsize at jump #5. Sabre2 150 (WL 1.3) at jump 40. Katana 135 (WL 1.5) at jump 150. Katana 120 (WL 1.7) at around 300 jumps. Why? I just kept wanting more speed. I bounced hard with HP landings. Twice. Was lucky. Definitely not what is recommended. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

There is no need to flare at a different height than in any other conditions as your decent rate will be the same. You need to finish the flare as much as possible though to minimize forward speed. If you're going fast, I'd say slide rather than PLF which could cause a tumble. Think about how motorcycle racers slide after a 180mph spill vs the ones who tumble and break arms, legs, collar bones etc. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I think you're right - we are on the same track here. I was thinking more along the lines of new jumpers learning their wings before downsizing, and I understand you were coming at it from the perspective of experienced jumpers with years of experience. I agree that the things you mention (creating vertical separation, slotting into a pattern etc) are essential skills that need practice, and require thinking about on every jump. That may be the major problem we are facing now - having a freefall dive plan but then switching the brain off under canopy. I also think your other point is a key one; we can teach how to perform various maneuvers under canopy, but teaching good decision-making is a whole lot harder. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thanks Chuck - I certainly take your point. My own point of view is that we should be striving for all jumpers to at least get to the point where they are comfortable using all their inputs in a controlled environment. This does not mean pulling on fronts near the ground, but rather to give confidence in doing so up high, along with things such as flying at the edge of a stall for prolonged periods of time or practicing planned landings on rears. I believe that doing these exercises on a regular basis would foster a level of confidence that perhaps would reduce the number of incidents caused by, for example, canopy collisions or knee-jerk low-turns due to traffic, obstacles etc. Personally, I don't think repeated pull->full glide->pattern->flare gives jumpers enough of a 'feel' for their canopy to make them a safe jumper when something out of the ordinary occurs. And that affects all of us. Having said that, I respect your experience and your argument is well stated. Perhaps this needs a new thread? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Something girls do about the time they get all shouty and unreasonable! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Sometimes you get tired of shopping and just want to buy.