UDSkyJunkie

I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I think you'll find it's pretty common among the 4-way/8-way crowd. Having done 2 years of pretty serious 4-way I can say that while I still wore a visual alti, I would almost never actually look at it on training dives except under canopy... breakoff was when your dytter went off or the first person left, whichever came first. When all 4/8 people go by this rule, all of them leave as soon as something beeps, and you're always jumping with the same guys, it's pretty different from a casual dive with a bunch of randoms. I think for training I'd rather have a digital in a glove or sleeve pocket so it isn't so bulky, but for anything else I'd rather have the old-fashioned Alti-III... too much unpredictable s**t going on to skip the visual, plus I've been guilty once or twice of forgetting to re-set the dytter after an AFF, so it's going off a 5,500' "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

And how many experienced jumpers who do go on the front, and proceed to get into an argument with the person on the back about how to fly the parachute! "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Ok, so... you're interested enough to try to unseat somone from the BOD, but you're not interested enough to take over. Do you have a recommendation for a replacement RD? Is anyone else even bothering to run? Right now we have someone who is engaged and works hard, and has made a poor decision. I would personally rather have that than have nobody. have you met the guy? And I don't mean one time for 5 minutes years ago, I mean actually sat down and talked to him or watched him teach? I see him in action every weekend and can honestly say I have NEVER met a better instructor or DZM. And don't give me some line about being brainwashed... I came in with a bad impression from smear campaigns like this thread and it all changed after about 2 weeks of watching him in action. His energy level is incredible and contageous... makes the rest of the staff do a much better job than most DZ's, and the proof is in the number of people who have continued through AFF. You're entitled to disagree, but I personally think it's sad that you feel it's necessary to bring someone down who is doing so many good things for the sport because of a single foolish decision. I'm sure you've done your share of blatant BSR violations over the years (and looked the other way while others around you, including those with ratings, have done the same). The claim of not being a BOD member, ect is no excuse and does not somehow exonerate you or make you a better person. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

A couple weekends a month is plenty to remain current and safe, especially if you're there both days or at least get several (4-6) jumps in a single day. Truly, that's about the average... sure, the pros are making 1000+ jumps a year, but if you look at the rest of the up-jumpers you'll find the average is more like 100 jumps per year, with very few putting in more than 200 a year unless they're doing video or tandem/AFF instruction on the side. Now at that level of participation you're not going to become a canopy piloting god or a 4-way guru or a freefly prodigy overnight, but if you put forth some effort you can get pretty good over the course of a few years. Being in florida helps too... LOTS of great coaching and generally good jumpers around, and access to the tunnel if you're so inclined. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

hehe... that's a very good point, and quite insightful given your experience, especially since those who use that and other similar phrases often have 1000's of jumps. Tandems may have unique risks, but I don't think they are any greater than those of other types of jumps. Freefliers are exposed to ugly premature deployments and freefall collisions. Camera fliers can get lines hooked on their helmets or throw the PC through their wings. Wingsuit fliers can prevent AAD's from firing. Hop-n-pops are often done without helmets and/or are done with the intention of doing high performance landings. RW fliers tend to jump in much larger groups and often have the least experienced jumpers. It is true that no jump is "just another skydive" "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

At least you have the decency to admit it. But really... diciplinary action has been taken, and the event has been discussed on other forums, you just didn't see them. Is there a point to this? Your own DZ was in the spotlight in the not-too-distant past because they f***ed up. Were you out on the forums attacking them? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Then I can tell you what I would NOT do. I would NOT pose the question to the world on a public forum so that there is a permanent, ineraseable record of your trying to do such a thing, making it 1000 times more likely that the manufacturer, the FAA, USPA, the regional and national directors, and everyone else under the sun would find out about it and be forced to take action to cover their own asses. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

USPA has a formal, legitimate process for granting waivers for underage tandems. I don't claim to know the details, but I do know it exists... I think the best approach here is to contact USPA or your regional/national director, and work the system instead of trying to bypass it. I am not a TI (although I am an AFFI)... but if I were and was approached with your request I wouldn't do it. If there was a waiver in place, I would consider it on an individual basis. For the record, AU/NZ have a legal age of 14 for skydiving, so they aren't "skirting" the rules there (well, they would be for a 12-year-old, but I doubt that happens all that often even there). "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Nylon, in the absence of salt, dust, and in particular UV, has a VERY long shelf-life... if you read the pointer's manual it basically says it lasts so long we really haven't gotten there yet. That said, many riggers and lofts are refusing to pack gear older than 20 years. While many debates have been started over this, it is a fact that must be considered. Most designs over 20 years old wouldn't be worth the savings in my opinion. Prettymuch the only container from that era I would buy today is a Vector II... some that could be close to that old, such as Javelins and the Racer Elite I would consider, but only carefully. I don't think I'd go that old on a canopy... there are FAR better mains available, and I just can't justify a 20 year old reserve unless I know the full history for a fact. When modern designs get that old the line will get fuzzier... i have a 10-year-old Vector III and Sabre1 that are each in perfect condition. In another 10, they probably still will be. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Anyone with info, please chime in... were they truly not altitude aware, or just doing stupid shit? Newbie team or experienced team? Audibles all-around, or not? Approximate date? I've been around jumpers my entire life, so I know it happened way too much in the past... the lack of audibles, competitive nature of 4-way, and tendancy to dump low since the canopies of the time allowed it combined to put many a team in the basement. I recall a (south african?) 4-way bounce sometime in the 80's, and many close calls. That's why I asked for a recent example. As you said, with audibles it's pretty darn rare. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Yep... that is one of the dangers. strong cutaway forces and backwards punch left/punch right situations can happen also. On the other hand, I know someone who had a spinner on an FX and tried to clear it... after a few seconds too long he realized he was WAY low, and pulled both handles simultaneously (no RSL). His reserve inflated so low he didn't even have time to rear riser flare. If he had pulled one then the other, he'd be dead. My method is not necessarily the "best", just the one I have chosen. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I won't bash your decision... it's your call, and sometimes money is a bigger issue than those who have money think it is. For the record, 4-way teams are one of the LEAST likley candidates for loss of altitude awareness. I challenge you to cite a single recent example of a team ending up in the basement resulting in multiple AAD fires/bounces. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Definately do some cross-wind landings and eventually downwind landings! Some larger DZ's (such as Eloy) with a lot of traffic require that all traffic land parallel (i.e. ONLY east-west the main area or north-south in the alternate... you're not allowed to land at an angle to the landing area). This means that on any given jump you may have to land as much as 45 degrees cross-wind. Or possibly even 90 degrees if you can't make it back to the optimal landing area. A few no-brainer considerations: - since crosswind (and even more so downwind) means you're likley NOT following the pattern, you'll need to be extra careful of traffic and/or landing away from others or on a separate pass. - make sure you've got lots of room, as your surfs could get long even with a big canopy. - you need to be comfortable with PLF's and falling down as you will inevitably do so in such practice. - start on lighter wind days & slight crosswind, work up to moderate wind and 90 deg crosswind. Much past 10 mph and it's probably best not to go to extreme angles and obviously anything much over 2-3 mph it's best not to downwind it. - turbulence may have larger effects, and push your canopy to one side or the other, remember "wings level" - you should also work on the "flare turn" (turning in mid-flare), which can help you to turn an unintentional cross-wind or downwind in unfavorable conditions into a more manageable landing. You may not be able to turn very far with a large canopy, but aim for at least 45 deg. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

First off, go here: http://www.icaruscanopies.aero/service_bulletin.htm Your crossfire may or may not be included in the serial number list, but you need to check before jumping it. Compliance is mandatory. There are stories above of people who have had problems and survived... they were lucky. The original SB was issued shortly after a fatality at a swoop competition during which a Crossfire1 collapsed mid-swoop and the lady under it slammed into the pond... water helped, but it wasn't enough. We have a tree planted for her at my previous DZ. As in the other cases, she had not had any previous indication of issues, it came from nowhere. Following the fatality a lot of people simply stopped jumping crossfires (even though they loved their performance), and the few I knew who got the mod said the performance was significantly reduced. I believe the Crossfire2 is an all-new canopy, not just a line trim change... if you want to know for sure, you should give Icarus a call. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Sabre2 120 @ 1.4, 270 deg turn 1000 500 400 (start turn) "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

my opinion: Pros: great cutaway/reserve handles, above-average asthetics, I've seen some killer combo deals if you buy icon/smart/pilot or even icon/smart/sabre2. cons: no skyhook (yet). Overall, I think it's as good as Vector, Mirage, Infinity, Wings, Voodoo, Vortex II... As a small rant, the 3-ring system is a gimmick, but it's not going to harm anything. I personally have a distate for wings, but I don't really have valid quality/saftey reasons for that, so feel free to ignore me. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

in my area I've seen fewer optimas in favor of neptunes. I went with Optima because it was ~$50 cheaper and served the same purpose... works great. Only drawback is I have to turn it off every weekend or the battery gets eaten up in about 6 months. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

No worries, intent was not to yell Actually, the first time I heard that method I thought it was pretty weird too. I strongly opposed the method for a long time before deciding that there were advantages and taking a more moderate stance. Actually, I mis-typed my method, and I do use the one hand on each, punch right, punch left method. You are quite correct that the argument could go on forever, as my method has it's own problems. I chose it because it's what I've been taught since I was literally 5 years old, and I can't imagine doing anything else. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I am an AFF instructor, and my DZ teaches that way... "look red, grab red, look silver, peel-pull-strip, grab silver, peel-pull-strip" There are advantages and disadvantages to that method... advantage is that students are less likley to pull out-of-sequence (a real risk) and less likley to not fully pull the cutaway (which has happened). Yes, it takes longer, but one argument is that students are deploying at 5000' and therefore have plenty of time... if they want to change their procedure later as an experienced jumper, that's their choice. Not saying I prefer that method (I don't), just that yes, some places teach it, and there are arguments in favor of both methods. Personally I was taught get both hands on the handle, then punch right, punch left... on my first (so far only) cutaway I was so pumped up with adrenaline that pulling all the way was simply not an issue, I think I could have punched through a brick wall, but that's just me. side note: an experienced (and very good) jumper I know who was taught the way described above, but later changed his procedure found that in his first malfunction he reverted to the FJC method... the reaction was simply buried too deep to be overcome. For this reason among others I think students ought to be taught EP's that will apply throughout their career... also why I don't like the single-handle system, even though there are arguable saftey benefits to students. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I know your buddy thinks he did you a favor, but as you have observed, he definately did not. You acted 100% correctly in this situation, and deserve recognition for that, congrats. If you read through the BSR's you'll find that only an AFFI is authorized to deploy for another person... even a USPA certified coach is specifically forbidden from deploying their student on a formal coach dive. While I'm can see a few exceptions where breaking that rule would be appropriate (say an experienced jumper is knocked out and tumbling... or maybe if you were still fumbling for your main handle and not going for the reserve by 2000'), this doesn't seem to me like one of those situations. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Patience, young grasshopper Yeah, I know it probably seems like it was the best deal in the world, but it probably wasn't... another week or two and you probably could have found another great deal on a 1-2 sizes larger canopy. If you can get out of the current deal, I'd encourage you to really think about it. That 2nd sentence summarizes everything. We have a saying: "it's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground." "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I've seen people who are "macho" about it and otherwise... I have a former team member who went without for his first several years. His statement was that he would like to have one but it was a lot of money that he would rather spend on jumps, and that he accepted the risks. This is usually just an excuse, but I know it to be true because: 1) when he started making a little more money he bought one, and 2) to this day he jumps his first rig, a Vector II with a Sabre1 190 @ 1:1, even though he'd really like new gear... why? because he's kept it in great shape, and would rather spend his money jumping than buy new gear. On the other hand, I had another former teammate who was the definition of "macho"... for many, many years, he refused to use an AAD, an audible altimeter, a visual altimeter, or a helmet. By the time I joined the team he had been kicked in the head hard enough enough times that he finally broke down and bought a helmet, but refuses to this day to wear any kind of altimeter or AAD. Stupid? in my opinion yes, but then again he's been actively jumping for 30+ years and has 7000+ skydives, so there's not much I can say. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I've seen a couple responses, but here's a little more info... Here's the PD article on flight performance of the Sabre2. http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Sabre2-Flight.pdf The coparisons are made to the Sabre1, but I think the statements generally hold for Sabre2 vs. Nav as well. Having lots of jumps on both Sabre1 and Sabre2, I would say that PD's assessment is very accurate. PD does not have an article on the performance of the Nav, however their description on the products page is pretty good... I can't say I've jumped the Nav, but my DZ has all Nav's as student/rental gear, and my observation (from the perspective of experienced jumper/AFF instructor) is that it is truly designed to be an introductory "high-performance" wing, unlike other models used for student canopies (large, F-111 canopies that usually fly very differently from anything ZP). Both Nav and Sabre2 are "tapered" wings. The Nav is ZP-topskin with F-111 ribs and bottomskin, while the Sabre2 is all ZP. Both have a lot of lift even in low speeds, relatively long control ranges (meaning you have to pull the toggles/risers further to get the same response as some competing models), and very deep stall points. I think the Sabre2 in large sizes and low WL will perform very similarly given moderate inputs, but will have the ability to "out-do" the Nav with extreme inputs (you can get it to turn faster, dive harder, stall easier, riser turns are more responsive, ect). This means the Sabre2 will be less forgiving if you do something extreme (intentional or otherwise) near the ground, but should be fairly familiar as long as you keep the inputs more moderate. Interesting side note: Sabre2 in large sizes has been used successfully as a student canopy, even at the first-jump level (skydive chicago). "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Really? I've been halfheartedly keeping my eyes out for a good 2nd rig in the $250-$400 range, and the problem I keep running into is that most of the rigs are built for much larger canopies than I would be flying... several have been sized in the 210 range. Most of the really good prices have been Dolphins, Racers, Talons, and Vector II's. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Remember your first jump course? Hands all the way up, feet and knees together and slightly bent, flare with your hands together and in front of you and prepare to PLF... feet, calf, hip, side, over the back. There's and old pilot's saying: "A good landing is one you walk away from. A GREAT landing is one where you can fly the plane again!" This applies... Please do all the things you were taught in your FJC, it will greatly improve your odds of having a "good" landing (unhurt!). You can work on the "great" landings (standing up) later. I have over 1000 jumps and almost always stand up, but occasionally I'll make a mistake or catch a really weird rotor, and I'll PLF without hesitiation. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."