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"Do you mean that separation has nothing to do with exit order" Yes. You need to take care with both for the safest experience, but they are two separate and independent things. If there is enough separation, then order is irrelevant. If you don't allow enough separation you are at risk with those before you. It doesn't matter if its a solo freefly, big way RW or tandem. Where's the hidden cam? (second time I ask that here ) The exit order helps to keep enough separation. Otherwise we could exit anyway. Do you remember what wing load means? Which one will land first from the the same altitude and same weight: a sabre 150? Or DCM 280? Did you get it? If not, jump a 280 and try to reach a 150 that exits before you! It has to do with exit order! It is similar before opening the canopy. That is why some skydivers need extra weight: to keep level Hey! You have much more jumps than me Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I tried to convince our jump masters for years that tandems should exit last Better that wasting time is allowing much more space behind a tandem no matter how unpopular you become In the mean time I was about to collide a tandem with its canopy open while I was en FF last Sunday Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Do you mean that separation has nothing to do with exit order? Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I am just trying to avoid fatalities. There are many people here much more experienced than me and you from whom I can learn -and have learned a lot and that is why I posted my question. Of course there are others that THINK THEY KNOW Do you remember Chernobyl? An engineer did not dare to tell his boss there were something wrong with the nuclear reactor because he felt he was nobody to contradict his boss? Well. This is not my case. I am positive tandems should exit last for the sake of safety. If they exit first the next jumper should compensate by allowing more separation. I did not did it and was about to collide. I am sure people reading this thread, you included, will keep this in mind when jumping right after a tandem. If you, the tandem and the others land safely I will be very happy. Good jump!

It appears to me that you do not understand the factors involved in maintaining safe exit seperation. My concern is about safety when tandems exit first. From this thread we find that is always safer tandems exit last followed by people wearing wingsuits. No exceptions yet. There are a few specific environments when it might be almost as safe tandems exit first, but as conditions easily change after taking off a Rule of Thumb is TANDEMS SHOULD EXIT LAST followed by jumpers using wingsuits. The only thing skydivers can be sure of is we are falling down. Every other thing can change. So, in case Tandems insist on exit first they are risking themselves and other skydivers unless some exceptional conditions be met. As exceptional conditions are not a rule, IMHO, having been to close to get injured , even die because a tandem jumped first, I prefer allow more separation. Maybe a second pass would be needed but that would be the tandem pilot’s fault Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I bought my own gear when my buddies pushed me to do it. One day a friend told me: " jump my chute. I am selling it!" I did not jump it and do not know why. I got the money, a discount and bought it. He also gave me 3 free pro-packing classes, 2 videos and a book I jumped it and got the best opening I have ever had. It was also my first pro-packing and I had packed it all by my self

Thanks for the input. It seems it is safer the tandems exit last. If they insist on exit first the following jumper must wait at least 15 seconds, even more if there are clouds around, when jumping from a not too fast plane, no matter how unpopular s/he becomes. Better safe than sorry!

You said: "But, someone might find another good reason to put Tandems out first" The three reasons you mentioned are not reasons to put a tandem first. They are just environments where you can put a tandem first without affecting safety but you could also put the tandem last with better results. Why I say "with better results"? Because we all now the wind direction changes, so do the landing areas and climb rates. Spotting is not always good. I have seen tandem students who refused to jump. Put it in other words: Are there any valid reasons that make it a must to put tandems first? Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Your point is well-taken; but nevertheless, once one set of jumpers exits, responsibility for assuring adequate exit separation rests with the next jumper(s) in the door. If the jumpers behind you or the terrain won't let you assure yourself of a traffic-free column of sky, eat the cost of the jump ticket and don't jump. Unfortunately you are right! That is why I do not like tandems around. Next time I will wait! Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Please, could you mention a few? I have seen they do it because they want to land soon so that they get enough room to pack and be ready for the next ride Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Thank you! IMHO, that should be the default exit sequence Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Yeah ... But I have not had problems getting back to the DZ, but my very first jump when it was impossible for me to release the right brake The problem is the last jumping usually are AFF students. And I love those extra 5 seconds Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Thank you! I am glad I asked this question! I will suggest them this alternative. There is a town and a big river just before the end of the runway but it is easier for the tandem to reach the DZ. Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Great link! Thank you! Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Thank you! That makes sense. I will suggest considering a second round when tandems jump first Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Right! But we cannot afford waiting 20-30 seconds because our DZ is very small with rivers, a lake, electric wires, etc, all around. And we are usually 17 jumping and you know how pilots hate an unnecesarry second round if you do the right things Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Hello, We need to convince our jump-masters that tandems should jump the last. Neither arguments, common sense or incidents have worked. I myself, during ff was about to hit a tandem when its canopy was open 5 days ago. Please check the link below: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2621172;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC Please, could you share an official document (USPA, FAI, etc) recommending that tandems should jump the last because they open higher? Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

Is not that easy when your DZ is small, has 2 big rivers and one lake nearby, a big cloud is coming to you, plus the fact that you have 14 more eager to jump people pushing behind you and who literally would kick you out of the plane if do not jump pretty fast, plus the fact that you have just convinced the pilots to go 2500 ft higher and they have not taken lunch yet No kidding! That was the environment Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I have told them that several times but they have not paid attention. I wished I could find a way to convince them before we see fatalities. Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I have had two issues with tandems, identical causes, being the last four days ago: A friend of mine wanted to learn how to use a cam and I was supposed to do some acrobatic maneuvers while he filmed. The first jumping was a tandem. We should follow them. When I was out of the door saw a big cloud coming straight to us. I should not wait much to avoid it so that I could keep an eye on the tandem. The video showed I waited 7 seconds after the tandem before jumping. I jumped followed by my friend and did some maneuvers (no tracking). Unfortunately we could not avoid the cloud and after 30 seconds or so, I just saw white all around. I usually enjoy crossing clouds but I was very worried about the tandem and tried to spot it. Got it! As soon as I was about to leave the cloud - 4000 ft, I spotted the tandem with the canopy open right below me. I cannot tell exactly how far, maybe 450 ft. I just tracked as fast as possible, saw a fast shadow on my right side, lost some balance, recovered,, etc, etc, and landed. My friend saw it all and filmed it. While the video is not good at all with his help I could find myself crossing in FF 50 ft behind the tandem that happily crossed the air with the canopy open and did not even see us. This is the second time it happens to me and I was much more closer to crash.. Tandems should be the last jumping. I do not like to jump with tandems around. Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I have noticed that the more tandems in the plane, the lower the jump altitude, the more danger of collision and the more bored skydivers tied up to the ground. IMHO, I prefer jumping with no tandems around. Maybe it is different in other drop zones and of course people have the right to do and enjoy tandem jumps Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

I would not do it. Wind is music to my ears

LOL You are right! I will save it! Have a good jump! Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

It makes easier that the inner medium ear air pressure equalizes the external air pressure through the eustachian tubes.

Not true if your adrenaline comes from skydiving, 3-way sex, base jumping, downhilling, scubadiving, rafting, etc. Maybe true if it comes from negative things. Enjoy! MD Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet