MyTwoCents

There has been little to no innovation in gear or instruction in the last five years (with all due respect to the manufacturers, you guys are doing great stuff!). So with increased BASE participation and risk probabilities at the same level as five years ago, it's no wonder we see more fatalities. We're at roughly one a month these days. I would not be surprised to see it grow to two or three a month over the next ten years, unless somebody comes up with a radical gear or instructional innovation. My way of dealing with it is through reduced participation. I used to pro-actively pursue contact with other jumpers around the world, just to chat about the thing we love most. These days, I have a small group of people that I jump my lovely local sites with. Sure I'm missing out on a chance to make great new friends. But in a rapidly growing sport like this one, I can't afford to keep up, lest the fatality rate catches up to me.

I won't imply that his rig didn't have anything to do with it (it may have, I wasn't there), but even without a rig; swimming 30 meters in water that is 4 degrees Celcius (39 Fahrenheit) while wearing clothes and boots kills very easily.

...must resist comment about gender affecting people's interest in advice. Shit, where is Abbie when I need him?

Hey, that's my PC. Hey, that's my Toxic's twin PC!

I assume you bring this up because it looks like a heavyweight hacky-sack? I actually think it's a regular PVC tube with black tape wrapped around it (perhaps to prevent a finger from getting stuck in it). But I'm sure Drew will chime in here.

That BASE is not skiing. The risks involved are different, and are also of different orders of magnitude. But what I can't derive from your message is in what direction you think the risks and consequences go. I'll easily agree that BASE is on an individual level more dangerous than skiing. However, overall a lot more lives have been lost because of the MTV-ification of extreme skiing than because of the YouTube-ification of BASE jumping. I'm not saying I agree with Obi (that's a tangent), but I wonder if your point is that since skiing is less dangerous than BASE, it's less of a problem for skiing to be popularized than it is for BASE. I would argue differently. Even when popularized, BASE continues to have a scare that runs against all intuition. Most people have no desire to jump off things. Back country skiing on the other hand seems too easy and too innocent. It's sunny and fun. Until you see that slab of snow slide away underneath your feet, and you look over your shoulder at a gigantic white cloud that is chasing you.

Five? I'm not sure what your point is. Bang for buck we could save a lot more lives through improved avalanche awareness than we ever could in BASE. But I would ask, who cares?

That looks very cool, thanks for sharing! It's hard to tell from the picture how heavy the load is that it's carrying, so I'm not sure what size quad-canopy I'm looking at. Is the claimed advantage of the odd design that it has a higher carrying capacity with reduced pack volume? I'm a tad skeptical you can beat a round (although the forward drive of a square might help), but I'm often wrong. Come to think of it, relatively speaking each of those four parachutes has a forward drive pointing away from the center. In absolute space they're only moving downward, but the relative force may help generate some lift. Ah heck, I shouldn't try physics. Calling 736 or Crwper. Oh, and what Tom said; I'd be interested to see packing instructions.

BASE is a poor choice when "growing up with it" is a person's only rationale. I see why, but do not understand why. Alas...

I'm at a complete loss why PCs with the traditional attachment point still exist. For ten bucks extra the loop style attachment is a no-brainer. I suspect it's because a majority of BASE jumpers applies little critical thought to their purchase, placing all business transactions in the "it's from a reputable manufacturer, so it must be good, right?" category. Is there any non-economical reason why an expert jumper may prefer the traditional attachment point?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=64 http://www.basewiki.com/wiki/pmwiki.php/GettingIntoBase/GettingIntoBase

Agreed. I jump both Toxic and non-Toxic pilotchutes and haven't noticed a difference in the twenty jumps I've done with them each. Maybe that's not enough jumps, but I'd be very surprised if there was a noticeable difference. At best the rate at which hesitations occur drops, but significant hesitations are quite rare to begin with (for most jumpers anyway). A warm and fuzzy feeling is great, but I don't think my next PCs will be Toxic. I'm the last person to cut budget on life-saving equipment, but a Toxic is a lot of money. I wonder if Marty will make F111 Toxics (without the vents, but with the pie-slices).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2806417021796550278&q=base+jumping+baby Is this the kid of an actual BASE jumper?

Amen. The best thing you can do when seen by anybody, be it police or the guy walking his dog late at night, is to show that you are a friendly, polite, intelligent and productive member of society with just another hobby. I've always managed to send people home with an improved opinion on BASE because they quickly see I'm not some criminally insane yahoo who swears and screams all the time. Remember, these people come home to friends and families and the first thing they say is: "you can't believe what I just saw..."

What is interesting to me is, why did you have to get hurt first before you realized this? Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking a stab at you. I've done plenty of stupid things and could have prepared better to avoid those cases where I got myself in trouble. Information is readily available to everybody. Yet so many of us ignore it until we learn lessons on our own. Understanding the mechanics of our choice to ignore this information may improve the guidance we offer to future jumpers.

...in a real life emergency situation. Right? Gotta love Perrine floaters.

Tom Aiello is working on a post as we speak where he's going to point out that "faster" is a vague concept in this context. What are you trying to optimize? The time it takes to turn the canopy? The distance traveled horizontally? The altitude lost? I would say the first one (which is commonly implied when one speaks of "faster") is of no importance. The second two are crucial. If there was a way I could turn my canopy with zero forward speed and not losing any altitude, except it would take thirty minutes; I would obviously prefer that. Now just looking at the time component, I would argue that I can turn faster with toggles than I can with risers. That says nothing about the two more important factors. That said, I think even those are more optimized with toggles. Although then again, it's a tough call. If you don't release your toggles the right way, you could create a surge increasing your forward speed. Once you include the time it takes to reach up for toggles and the potential to miss one, the debate becomes even more complicated. And despite all that, this discussion has never been very hard for me. I go for risers. It's simple, foolproof, and will work for many highly enjoyable objects. And those objects where a decision to use toggles may be needed? I try not to jump those. Case in point, that particular bridge you had your injury on; I jumped it three times the year before. One PCA, one static-line, and one TARD. No freefalls. Why not? Because it wouldn't give me enough time. And lack of time turns simple questions (like risers versus toggles) into complicated answers. And in this sport, complexity equals injury. This is where CRW shines.

There are about 1200 people with a BASE number. I estimate there are at least 12,000 people that have made a BASE jump at one point or another. I estimate there are about 4000 active BASE jumpers, where active means more ten or more BASE jumps in a year. I also suspect that I might be able to derive some information through the BASE fatality list and a quick count of how many BASE jumpers me and my fellow jumpers have known that are now dead. That, I don't have I'm afraid. I'm just guestimating.

I have seen Seth being incredibly helpful towards beginners and I've seen him avoid them. He doesn't generalize and, in my experience, judges on individual performance.

Yes. Although I would argue that using 38 inch on a 280 foot go and throw the object doesn't really matter much. 38 is simply too small. Yes. Of course, I said he'd be better of using a 46 or 48, and that he should consider maybe doing a static-line instead. Indeed I did. Yep. Yes. I hope I don't sound like a prick, but I think that on average I've been quite helpful to fellow beginners. I started and maintain BASE WIKI to share information. I have offered a place to stay for many a visiting BASE jumper. I've PCAd more people of my local bridge than I have done jumps of it myself. I've helped people get their E. I've given people my body armor because they couldn't afford their own. I've lend people BASE canopies so they could skydive them. I've asked people to help me groundcrew. I suppose sometimes things just don't work out. That's too bad and believe me I don't feel great about it either. I guess at some point you just have to let go, as you pointed out. I have no right to stop people from jumping. I completely agree with you on this. However, I do have the privilege to come on these forums and ask my fellow jumpers to do due diligence when they sell used gear. Granted, I should have used a different tone. These are the kind of posts I should write, let sit overnight, and then post. Or maybe I should just stop worrying about the things I have no control over. Like SBCMac said; huck it while you can strut it! Thanks guys...

I suspect you're ironic in some sense, but the comment is indicative of something I just learned through talking with another BASE jumper twenty times more intelligent than me. Why are these discussions, and so many others here, always so terribly polarized? Everything is always presented as an either-or thing. I have one person arguing that regulation and governing is a good thing. I have another claiming that everybody should be free to do whatever they want. Why can't there be a sensible and constantly tuned equilibrium where we try to regulate our own community loosely but respect each other's freedoms? I have one person suggesting that if you wear body armor you don't have brains. I have another one claiming that body armor can make up for lack of skills. Why can't you wear body armor and have skills at the same time? I have one person suggesting that BASE needs to go completely underground and hide itself, and another person posting twenty videos on YouTube. Why can't we enjoy the occasional video and share the passion with non-jumpers, yet continue to discourage people from entering what is a dangerous activity? I have one person saying that you can't enter BASE until you have at least 500 skydives, while another will deathcamp you with fifty skydives. Why can't we place emphasis on the individual and form an opinion within context, instead of generalizing? I have one person saying that the internet has no place for BASE infomation, while another says the BASE wiki is great and that these forums are a good learning tool. Why can't we present useful information in a sensible way and monitor the impact on non-jumpers. Things are rarely black and white, and the question of BASE and its place in the universe will never have a definite answer. Self regulating doesn't have to be a bad thing. By and large the climbing community (through its access societies) is proving that it's possible. Yes it takes effort, but it is better than total anarchy, and certainly better than government regulation. All it takes is a little consideration, patience, and common sense. That said, somebody with four previous BASE jumps planning to take a 38 inch pilotchute for a 280 foot go and throw from an urban crane forces me to recalibrate my black and white scale, hoping to find the matching grey that fits the best outcome for my local object, as well as the jumpers involved.

Wow. If you knew me, you'd realize that is as far from the truth as could possibly be. I loathe the USPA and the fact it has to exist. I actually don't have a single skydiving license. Maybe that's not a great thing, but in the context of your point it shows that I'm not a fan of governing bodies. In fact, my post is precisely because I want to avoid being regulated. Hence we must try to regulate ourselves. Fine-tuning our approaches through discussions like the one we are having right now. When actions of individuals affect others (and no matter what you say, a jumper dying affects people) and communities can't self-regulate, the police (in its abstract form) will step in and form a government. Ironically I got a PM from somebody else arguing that the German BASE organization has worked so well to avoid situations like these. Again, if you knew me you wouldn't think I was trying that. In fact, if you read my original post you'd have seen that I specifically didn't care about people killing themselves. I care about my local objects. Not because I own them, but because I believe the community has a simple duty to preserve the opportunities we have. I'm well aware this is a relative scale. What I think is dangerous, another person thinks is safe. What I think is safe, a third person will consider stupid. And I encourage discussions about these kind of things. However, if you actually realized the situation we are in I think you'd agree on the problem we have. Feel free to PM me for my phone-number and we can discuss. Perhaps you have some advice and I'd appreciate that. I should also point out that I've reached out to this person. I've encouraged skydiving a BASE canopy, offered to lend him my large skydiving container to fit his in, adviced to take an FJC, encouraged to go to Twin Falls before jumping solid objects at home, adviced to get better helmet and armor, asked if he tuned his brake-settings, etcetera, etcetera. But when somebody finds a canopy on the market, one with a sub-optimal wingloading might I add, and ignores all my advice and starts hucking technical local objects, then I don't know what to do anymore. When I talk to somebody on the phone who has four previous BASE jumps, and he tells me he's gonna solo a 280 foot urban crane, going hand held with a 38 inch pilot chute, you'd be scratching your head too.

I'm a climber, trad, aid and sport. There is a huge difference. It's a lot harder to get yourself into trouble if you don't have experience. Most of the time, you just realize things are too hard and you descent from where you are. You don't die. I'm a sailer. There is a huge difference. If you sail across an ocean and perish because of lack of experience, no legislation is going to stop other people from sailing across the ocean. Nobody, and like I said in an earlier post, I have no intention of stopping people from killing themselves. Suicide is a relative scale and for some others even my BASE jumps look like suicide. Live and let live. However... Absolutely. However, we both share an equal responsibility in trying to keep access to the object at the level it is today, or improve it. That has nothing to do with BASE, that's just a common level decency that people living together accept. The fact of the matter is, today I have a cliff that is legal to jump. A serious accident there would draw attention to it, and probably shut it down (given the precedent in surrounding cities).

Oh well...

I think so. It would depend on how I felt about my conversations with the person itself. Would it possibly to ship the canopy today (so he can make some skydives with it) and ship the container to Twin Falls (for his FJC)? How many skydives does he have? You say they have been mostly freefly and swooping jumps, but it still makes a difference if he has two hundred or two thousand skydives. It also depends on the reputation of the potential mentor. I've met guys with fifty BASE jumps that I believe can safely take somebody just off an FJC to their local "easy" objects. I've met guys with three hundred BASE jumps that I still don't think should be a mentor. Sadly, I think the time has gone that people could do an FJC and come home to a wise old mentor with over four hundred BASE jumps. That said, I also think that these days there is a lot of information readily available. People with good judgement can responsibly do an FJC and go home to an environment that may not have the best mentor, but at least a crew of fellow beginners. It's not ideal, but it's what we've got and must make do with. Hey NSEMN8R, you jumped my Warlock in 2005, when are you gonna come visit up here?