rynodigsmusic

What about Spaceland?? Its located in Rosharon, just about 30 minutes outside of Houston. Great DZ/facilities, Huge landing area, excellent fun jumping scene, and world class freefly teams. Surely that has to be more than 5% aye? "We didn't start the fire"

Its sad really that we cant see we are just like all religious zealots who ever lived. We will kill for breaking the law, torture (we call it caged rehibilitation though), judge, condemn, falsely accuse (especially for political gain and stature) ect... all under a blanket of so called justice. So, we are just replacing Gods law for our own. However, our law submits to money and power. I agree. This guy deserves to be fired, he is clearly an asshole employee because he never would have lasted 5 years at wal mart, with a terminal illness, if he wasnt... right? I hope one day we all see our own hypocrisy, only then will there be real good change. Hell, the judge, and the legislators (who passed the "weed law") are probably just as guilty. But how can that be when they are above the law? Surely no republican anti gay senator is actually a closet homosexual right? So, hypocrisy is against Gods law, but not against mans? I havent heard of anyone going to jail for being a hypocrite, but im also not a lawyer. Again, just sad, that we as an advanced society cant see that punishing this guy by taking his job, his benefits, and possibly just a little dignity, just for using a proven medicine for his terminal cancer is not right. So, we are just like the zealots in that the law cannot be broken... not even with mercy and understanding. So sad. Now most likely the ones who respond against this post and for the law will not hear their own hypocrisy, as it is buried in a very dark place, so that they do not have to judge themselves in the same way they judge others, but, they will be classed as the ones with integrity, who cannot do wrong, who obey the law at all times ect... just like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Wake up people... please. You think all these laws are doing us good? Just wait till you fall under one of them, especially when you had no idea you were. I had no idea that true freedom would be girded so tightly... unless... maybe we arent as free as we like to think? "We didn't start the fire"

IMO. When alcohol is abused, the "side effects" are much worse than when weed is "abused". However, both can be enjoyed as well, but, it can be a very difficult thing to try and balance an addiction with the person you want to become. IMO, its when we give up hope (rejoicing despite, and even because of our sufferings and trials) that we begin to accept that what we have become is what we are. That, to me is a dangerous place. My opinion is ride the waves where they take you, but never give up and always stay open. Its an addiction, its not the end. For some an addiction is the end, but there is always hope in perseverance. Its not called the struggle for life for nothing. And yes, this is Christian revelation. So it must not be true right? "3Not only so, but we[a] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. ETA: My grandmother was an alcoholic all the way to her death. She was one of the most incredible women I had met, and everyone loved her very much. I am convinced she is an angel. Absolutely beautiful heart. My step mom of 15 years was an alcoholic, I think she hit her head from being drunk and thats how she died, but we arent fully sure of that. I saw her in my dream, and we actually went flying. I know for certain that neither drugs nor alcohol can keep anyone from a pure heart. I could go on and on with freinds and family members that struggle with addictions and other "side effects" of this world, of course myself as well. Its the heart that matters the most, and the funny thing is, that we all know that already. "We didn't start the fire"

Makes sense to me. "We didn't start the fire"

I dont assume anyone is more humble than another. Humbleness is a pursuit, not a destination. "We didn't start the fire"

square peg round hole? Is love a good pursuit or not? Faith provides a completely logical explanation for reason, if, you accept the evidence for what it is. The "evidence" we have inspires us to take a step of faith to see whats on the other side. Seems to me many more scientists would want to explore this truth. Havent many scientists explored so far as to subject themselves to their own inventions and theories? You continue ellude that faith is a ridiculous expression of reason and logic, yet are not at all willing to accept the terms associated with its revelation. How can you make such a statement without testing the hypothesis? If you think I knew what was on the other side of this step, you are badly mistaken. We all had to take the first step in repentance. Now if anyone assumes the first step of repentance means you will live a sin-free life, without trials, you are also badly mistaken. But just like any marriage, you have to take the first step to see if that union is something you are meant to be a part of, and to explore the deeper revelations of love. I for one find plenty to connect God with nature. If you continue to desire a separation between the two, you will not be acting in the spirit of a real, genuine, trustworthy scientist, as your not willing to test all the evidence. "We didn't start the fire"

I dont get my definition of love from the dictionary. In fact, many things can be understood without having a dictionary. You may disagree. But I asked this question before... "Are the educated considered to be more free in thought than children in wonder" I may respond to the rest, but if you dont mind my saying so, your not keeping me out of this. This is about what I believe. The entire Gospel is about faith, not intelligence. Not only that, you are avoiding many of the questions I have asked and continuing to give me reasons why you dont believe rather than what it is that you do believe. Am I not showing you that courtesy? and stop saying I called you limited. As far as what you say, I call a spade a spade. If I feel as if something is argumentative more than sincere, I will tell you, and I will do it with kindness as much as I possibly can. If I think you are being naive, I should be able to say so. Especially when you are saying that the inquistion followed the heart of Jesus. I dont know what I have to do to present myself as willing to discuss, bold in what I believe, full of the truth found in Christ, but, it seems no matter how I try to present myself, I will always be judged by the ones who claim I am judging them. I do sense alot of sincerity in your posts, but, I have been wrong before. Sometimes people try to trap me, or trick me, or make it sound as if I am saying something that im not. I have no interest in people of that type of character, but it doesnt mean I reject them either. Its just the truth. I like sincerity rather than intelligence. In no way am I saying you are doing this to me, or attempting to do this, I am just saying that I am not interested in that type of discussion. This is merely an emotional speed bump we are having in this discussion, I dont like them much and all they do is slow us down, but, if we both are as sincere as we claim to be, perhaps we can actually hear some sort of evolved thinking we had not heard before? I want to be on level ground with you as a person. I dont want what we believe to distract from that, but, I do want us to able to express what it is that we believe. Im assuming this is why you started this conversation in the first place? It certainly is why I responded to you anyway. I am always searching for wisdom, I dont know how many times I have to say that. I want to learn from you, im not interested in hearing why you dont believe, I want to know what you do believe. Im coming to every conversation eager to be anywhere close as surprised as I was when I heard what Jesus had. Hit me with some truth and some genuineness. For example. I found it true that love is inspired by faith and visa versa. This is not true just cause Jesus seems to teach that, it is true because it makes perfect sense to me. Amongst other things he taught. Im not going to get into the spiritual revelations i found as true, as I have already attempted to explain that part, and it seems not many really care about that anyway. I am giving nothing but truth that is found through faith. If you accept what is true by evidence, why dont you try to accept what is true by what is true to you as well? You dont always need evidence to find truth. Ahh, but there is another line between you and I right? "We didn't start the fire"

Sorry, I cant help it, I think I like to write or something... you dont have to read it you know. As I said before, this is only the detail of what I believe. I dont know Gods mind, "but we do have the mind of Christ". With genuine faith, and the glory of God, nothing will be impossible. This is not all I believe, there is more of course, and I am always trying to learn and stay open to the direction and movement of God. I guess this is the way he decided to reveal himself, through hell. But love is an energy, or power, that seems to have a very strong connection with life. It has power that seems to go beyond the grave with no problem. If people never see it as more than an emotion, then it is the greatest and most sought after one (if its known anyway). Personally, im really looking forward to when everyone gets it, because at that moment, the source behind its energy.. pure wisdom, and the very nature of love and promise, will be revealed to the whole earth. And everyone, operating by pure faith, with absolutely no doubt, will live here with power in the mind thought impossible to us now. Dont know why, through his infinite wisdom, he decided to create (grow) the evolved wisdom in the mind and life of man on earth, with such a disposition to evil, but, he did. And wisdom still teaches faith is more pure than man, and a promise from man means nothing like a promise in faith, but for some reason, we have to have a hell before a heaven is revealed. And that alone keeps people from seeing the truth because I guess they feel as if they can do better? But there is obviously something great in mans mind and if faith can only be created through this hell, then so be it. Coincidentally enough, it is the moment you accept that (his will), that you no longer question his methods. A fault in wisdom? Is there such a thing? Wisdom teaches that humbleness is the way. It is the way of the future. "The meek will inherit the earth". Not only that, you feel almost shamed when you question God, (I had plenty questions) because your pride becomes much more visible than before, something that helps me in the way of humbleness. I still ask though. I just dont feel like I have the right to question anymore, but thats just me. I know I cant do better than God, I can see that in my own life alone. But he doesnt ask us at all to do better, he just asks us to be real and follow his heart(name). Thats the way. Thats how he grows the faith that is needed to carry his wisdom, but Jesus is clear, we arent there yet. But the faster we get there, the more change. That is, as we grow in wisdom, so does the change. The signs are real, they dont at all care if we believe them or not. They are only a sign of the direction of this creation of life and earth. But he clearly is making a new earth and a new heaven, and "righteousness will be the sceptor". Jesus likens righteousness to faith. As did Paul when he compared it to Abraham "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness"... credited to him as faith. "In regards to righteousness, because I am going back to the father, where you will see me no more" Im sorry that people dont like that wisdom was given to the Jews. It had to come from somewhere right (the moment it revealed its plan for this creation)? Again, Ill ask, show me anything in any other faith that, in matters of righteousness and goodness, that is not found in the Gospel. Not at all an attack on any other faiths, just a point, that the greatest reward of faith is love. Wisdom clearly is teaching us love. But, also, that with as powerful as our minds are, that is, the ability to hold infinite truth, we also have the ability to grow towards this incredible revelation of love with that same amount of power. So anything that is on the side of love is on the side of wisdom. But you cant find love without wisdom (life), and you cant find wisdom without life, but love still seems to be greater than all those things. Think about it. What good would it be to have the perfect world where anything is possible, but not have love? What good would life be without love? No. wisdom wants us completely saturated, transcendent on a unviersal (as we are in the universe, or multi or whatever) level.. just one existance in time and space that is full of the energy and power of God. God is faith. He speaks, or wishes, and it is. The voice is the absolute spirit of creation, the very nature of being. You ask why now? Because he is always moving. Never changing, but always moving. Now your saying why not just create the perfect world right? But you dont see how perfect this world is becoming. Wisdom has a system of inevitability. Life is a very wise design to say the least. Enough for me to accept it is smarter than me anyway, and probably knows more too. If this is hellish world is what it takes to inspire this universal change of creation that God has promised through Jesus (infinite wisdom), then who are we to say the design is not even close to perfect? While we sit here and mess it all up, “observe” it, and pick it apart piece by piece as if we could do it way better, the future has already spoken itself into existence, and through that voice he said that faith is the way to life. That you find it, or you dont. If you have faith, you'll have life, if you dont, you cant, this is the message. It is incredible the life, love, and change it brings.. I certainly wasnt prepared for it. And I am definitely not saying that I have a "better" life, because if it is compared to the successes and glories of this world, it may not be seen as fulfilling to others anyway, but it aparently has no problem sounding self-righteous to some. But the truth is that everything with faith is growing closer and closer to the light (just like a natural plant) and that light is a great one. Certainly it has surprised me, and Im sure others feel the same. All things on the earth will eventually be under the light (always growing under grace). Hence, Heaven on earth. All things will be possible. There will be nothing impossible when we tap into the power of faith in our minds as a universal being, as one conciousness all connected with, not for, the nature of wisdom, which is the very connection of love and life. Wisdom is doing some pretty remarkable things to say the least all while many clearly assume they can do better. Wisdom must be very patient. Nevertheless, if this makes me uncredible, or completely disregarded as a “free thinker”, it doesnt really bother me. But, the Gospel is full of wisdom. Just yesterday I gave my brother some. If he listens, he will come out on top, if he doesnt, the path will be rough until he realizes what is being taught and revealed. Pure faith is the future, though small now, when God has made his full "move", everything will come together. No doubt. Im not at all talking about whether God exists or not, im talking about faith in what he is able to do... in what is possible. In what is possible if a creation existed on the earth that had the faith and love of Jesus. Gravity? Im talking about the entire wisdom and power of the universe. Gravity would be about as interesting as a toe nail if you were a piece of the wisdom of the universe. It seems to live, not only in life, which is also always moving, but in mans mind (lifes creation). The mind is a power thing? That is an incredible understatement. Right now our words reflect human intelligence, inevitably, they will reflect the very power of faith in God. It is revealing more of itself. Ironically enough, as it is evolving into its own inevitabliltiy, people use the truth of that evolution as “more than enough” reason to deny its very existence. Clearly, it is evolving into a new creation, or species, with power in the mind, not the body. With power in faith, not in human intelligence. While I know, many believe they can do better that God (based on posts I read), if you just look around, you may see that is not at all what is being revealed to the new creation. Faith is. Life has shown, regardless what is believed, that love is inspired by faith. People who know the Gospel will be able to testify if what is being said is found in its truth. I am always open to rebuke and wisdom. As you said earlier, feel free to shred it if you like. "We didn't start the fire"

Im just accepting it, not at all condoning it or defending it. Its in the past, and it is inevitable that we grow from the lessons whether we blame the methods or not. To be honest, purpose is something I see in everything, why would our sick ass minds be any different? Give me just one example of something that has life without purpose? It seems even in the theory of evolution (the one without God) science claims we came from bacteria. If thats the case, I guess even the bacteria had purpose aye? For those who never stop learning, while I know you dont like to hear it, purpose (light) is often found even in the darkest of dawns. I can fully understand you hearing my hypocrisy. Not being exposed to that kind of evil does give me a "cush" spot. I can only hope I'll not have to experience the evils Job had to. Or any of those on the other end of deception and evil. Seems to me, in this search for truth and pureness of heart, we are flooded in the shadow of lies. Poetic or not, it seems to be very true. Authority in the law and letter, not in the spirit. I never claimed to have deep understanding of anything, I am only speaking the truth of what I know. Thats it. But, I do, of course, see your point and certainly see how people can see me speaking the truth I accepted as coming from a self righteous hypocrite. Its very design is to separate and discern pureness from falseness. While you see falseness, others may see pureness. Depends on how pure or how false the perceptions of the ones looking on are I guess. (No implication whatsoever) Again, I dont discard it. I "filter it with the truth of the Gospel" (BillVon). Jesus tells us that "Heaven is within you". If Heaven is, then hell must be as well right? Then if there are people living with hell in them, i wonder what they would be capable of? Hells very pathway to death is deception. Im not talking about a little lie, im talking about a fixed chasm that cannot be crossed. The very line between pure and false. Now, while many of you continue to blame this design for what you have only percieved as imperfect, the balance is still maintained, and that chasm cannot be crossed... 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' (Luke 16) Bro, once again, this is not my truth, it is the one I accepted. Why is acceptance considered more un-intelligent than blame in many circles? Right, like Hitler, Stalin, and many other examples of men completely influenced and controlled by their own evil and deceptive agendas... Justified in the name of goodness. The power you speak of is the power of deception, not truth. Calling it religion is more than fair. Calling it the truth of Jesus is a bit naive and argumentative. respectively. read this... this is the spirit those in your examples claimed to have followed. These are the words of the apostle Paul. 10As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. 11Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. (2 Corinthians) 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked Is being revealed. Not will be. Is being. What makes you think I know the purpose? All I can do is "detail" what I know. The next post I write will attempt to do just that. But just like trying to write the perfect song (impossible for man), Im sure it will lack the "perfection" you are seemingly hoping to hear. "We didn't start the fire"

No. But your example left no room for discussion past what you presented. You said that science accepts correction (paraphrasing) but spirituality does not. Its a clever point in that you seem to be comparing faith to a religious canon, while knowing that Jesus taught faith against religious canon? I dont know, im going to have to think more on this one, so thanks for that. Did we do that? I thought we were talking about faith? My bad, i must have missed it. I wouldnt say interchangable. I just see paralells. For example the fact that you said "a scientists studies the natural enviornment". I believe God, by his very nature, is natural. Not only that, it was a grand revelation for me to begin to see God in everything. As much as it seems to offend science, which seems to pride itself, at times, on the separation of God and nature. "We didn't start the fire"

I dont know man? Isnt the global warming thing beginning to reveal flaws? Im sure there are other examples... its not really in my concern to be honest. respectively. I try to expose religion and differentiate between it and spiritual truth. It is NOT an easy thing to do. However, it is quite easy to speak the truth and let the cards fall. Maybe just a little below the belt? seriously though, what is up with the "pirate" emoticon? How is being a pirate an emotion? Someone want to fix that sometime? "We didn't start the fire"

I know I probably shouldnt laugh at this, but its just too funny Im an overseas contractor... at least I think so. Been doing it since 2004. 4 contracts in the AOR. Not very proud of it, but it is what I do for a living. Aircraft ground handling; Towing, refueling, launch and recovery, and obviously plenty of downtime to indulge in these forums! P.S. Jclalor, your a much bigger man than I. I hope your rewarded richly for your merciful efforts. sincere gratitude... for what its worth. "We didn't start the fire"

Wisdom is the teacher. Truth is what is taught. Love is what is revealed... God is many things. "We didn't start the fire"

damn man, that was really kind. Thanks for that... believe it or not, a post of mine with very few words. "We didn't start the fire"

I dont care at all how life originated. I believe we are not supposed to know everything. While there are those who have to know, there are also those who just accept. I dont see any reason to believe either of them are wrong or unjustified in their paths. In fact, curiously enough, they often meet each other on common ground along the way. One is not more right than the other if they are both searching for truth. I fully accept that God is allowing us to uncover more and more of the truth, and I will accept anything that is true. But I cannot deny faith as the purpose and power of the revelation of God. Not because I am incapable, but because I know the truth about faith, not the origin of life... that, I take on faith, there is a difference. However, more often than not, while I accept the truths of scientific/philosophic/theologic ect.. findings, many of them absolutely refuse to accept the revelations found in faith, or at the very least will certainly not attribute them to a wisdom in life that is possibly beyond our own understanding (im directing this at the religious as well). But still, either a mind is on the side of truth, or its not. Impartiality is a quality of God... "Who judges each mans work impartially"... not quite sure it is a quality of man yet. Is that what you believe? It must be, because you have sincere conviction that seems to "without doubt" separate you from even possibility. What is being ignored besides the fact that Jesus says you cant understand his parables without his spirit? No offense again, but your expressing a clear contradiction here yourself arent you? That is, someone can say the exact same thing you are about science. I thought scientists were objective and impartial? Yet I dont read any of that in your post. Seems to me if you dont have evidence to disprove God, at least the theory of a life changing faith is still on the table, yes? According to your post anyway. Pretty sure science does this same thing, just have a better way of phrasing things rather than accepting faith as the purpose revealed in God, because it doesnt fill in the gaps for those who need to know to be on the side of truth. Not only that. There are boundaries that expand well beyond what we can observe. If it takes faith to observe them, perhaps science can accept that and who knows, incorporate it into their quest for absolute truth? "We didn't start the fire"

Good one. Still doesnt change that scientists often claim truth with 100 certainty based on 90 percent evidence and fact does it? I do however see religious programs doing the same thing, so, clearly I am mistaken here. I just want to see more interaction (like minded thoughts) with science and God as I still do not see any contradiction between what is revealed, and what is underneath it all. Personally, I feel that ligitimate science operates in truth and therefore the closer to truth it gets, the more God is revealed. Of course I know others feel differently, you included it seems? In the case of Jesus, "religious" and spiritual minds accepted his testimony in spite of and because of his death, so it seems the canons can be violated, and Jesus obviously made a name for himself "proving other religious people wrong". I see your point, Im pretty sure, but I dont think it is a clear example of opposition between science and "religion". More like a comparison in similarity. Maybe their belief yes, but if the faith is genuine it wont matter what is revealed. Faith is much more than just believing God exists. However, it is a shame that new discoveries are not accepted.. on both fronts. If they are true, anyone on the side of truth should accept them. Still, there seems to be a price for our advancement and I dont just mean the death of faith that seems to threaten a religious envioronment. Ever heard of pandoras box? Hope was at the bottom, but not before destruction and the evils of mankind were released. Yes i am aware this is greek mythology, just making a point. Im glad you see it like that. It shouldnt be a shunned word in science, when clearly it is used there as well. Just another example of the similarities of faith and science. Two words most never want to hear in the same sentence, and Im not just talking about scientists. So, I guess we still disagree about the connections between science and faith? It is clear I am no where as smart as you bill, but I still see very similar connections between the two. In matters of curiosity and truth. I only responded to you because you seemed quite certain that nature was separate of God, and I dont believe that is true. respectively. "We didn't start the fire"

Perhaps it is. We are all very unique. Funny enough, me either. I had to read the Gospel for myself and take the step of faith. Jesus is a spirit. Its not the man we worship, it is the spirit within the man... it is a love so great it inspires life.. and we all have access to it. But im only sharing what I know, sometimes that causes animosity, but that is not at all my intention. Nor is presenting myself as anything but a humble man, and this of course is not always easy, as I am forged in hypocrisy and vanity. However, we should be able to fully disagree with one another, thats actually very important. Its just hard to let sleeping dogs lie sometimes isnt it? Someone on here had a cartoon dipiction a while back that showed a stick figure guy madly typing away at his computer while his wife was calling for dinner. He had in the quote bubble "Hang on, someone is wrong on the internet"! Still makes me laugh to this day. Its one reason I try to stay real and away from desiring to be right all the time, which I think is human nature. No one really wants to be wrong, but that is not as important to me as ensuring that the spirit of God is first in my posts... although sometimes I do let my human nature come through at times, and that shames me in a way that may not be fully understood. Theres just no faith in words... and we all know that I write alot. It would be nice to meet some of you personally sometime... and more than probable as well, but for now it seems all we have is words. "We didn't start the fire"

Once again, another "free thinker" accusing believers of not being one One might also define a "sheep" as someone who conforms entirely to the systems of this world. Jesus taught the exact opposite. Are the educated considered to be more free in thought than children in wonder? "We didn't start the fire"

I mis-spoke, so I deleted the post. I hesitated posting it in the first place, but I still believe it is important to speak the truth as best I can. It does not mean I am always right by any means. My apologies. "We didn't start the fire"

Damn dude. the next one of you who accuses me of boasting that I believe my life is more full than yours because I have faith will get this immediately copied and pasted on the reply. At least you actually said it, so, I applaud your truth. But now, none of you have the right to accuse me (Im not speaking of max or anyone else here) of boasting in a self righteous faith. "We didn't start the fire"

This statement lead me to assume you saw no purpose in the Inquisition. While I agree it is a very extreme measure of the expression of religion (as is Jesus crucified), I do not agree that they were operating in the spirit of God. However, I do accept there seems to be purpose behind all evils' deceptive influence. The point was to the purpose of it all, which by your own words seemed to be mocking that. If I was wrong to assume or am wrong in my assumption, then I do apologize, but sometimes thats all we have are our assumptions, as dangerous as they can be. God is remarkable in that "the stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone". In that, whatever the purpose of evil is, it seems to always serve the purpose of good. In that whatever is sown in weakness is raised in power. In that whatever was blind has been given sight. In that whatever was hated and rejected was passionately desired and loved. While its very easy to blame Gods purpose, the understanding and revelation often comes at the end of all the bitterness and blame that attempted to steer you away from the truth. Just take any relationship that ends. Most likely than not, there is usually blame on both sides. If you cant find your blame, you will never get through into understanding the lessons that are the purpose behind all that blame-filled negative and destructive energy. The comparison between skydiving and purpose made sense to me then, and still does. None of our family has died in vain... It has nothing to do with skydiving and everything to do with purpose. We're not looking for reason to believe, we're looking for power in faith. "We didn't start the fire"

Not anymore. I pondered your example and sincerely appreciate what I think were good intentions? But there seems to be a difference between faith and belief. If that difference is not understood there will be confusion. "We didn't start the fire"

While I think I agree with you, I still think what I said makes sense. This is strange. Brain teasing semantics sort of. Cause if you flipped your examples they do make sense?? It takes being broke to find riches It takes sadness to find happiness It takes insanity to find logic (If we accept the defintion for insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. I cant take back what I said because it makes too much sense to me.. and others believe it or not. But what you said doesnt make any sense to me, so now what? Do I just accept that what makes sense to me is false based on your examples that dont make sense to me? I dont think I can do that. Help me out here... if you want anyway. "We didn't start the fire"

He was trying to express that there was no purpose to the primitive revelation and application of past religious and non religious confrontations. The point is learning from these things have given them purpose. It doesnt seem like anyone has ever died in vain. "We didn't start the fire"

Because your previous statement seems to assume that God is separate of nature. I for one see increasing parallels to what we know about science and what we know about God. If I mis-read your previous post then of course it wouldnt be the first time. To me, fossils dont prove anything about lifes purpose, yet, plenty of people sincerely believe they do. To me, survival seems connected to revelation, many dont accept that based purely on what they know about fossils. For example, If a bone of Jesus was fossilized and dug up a million years later, would it prove he wasn't God? Nevertheless, change is inevitable. The only thing that doesnt change is God, and he is an eternal revelation. Again, I may have mis-read your post though. No it wouldnt would it. A miracle by nature is not provable. Besides, I dont believe God intervenes. His will is set and his revelation is the purpose for what can be percieved as intervention. Others of course believe differntly. I believe there is a very strong connection between science and faith. Of course not religious faith, but faith in general. I believe it takes faith to overcome the countless "failings" needed to persevere into the ultimate belief in the idea or theory that is being studied or pursued. The point was that the discovery channel taught that 90 percent as 100 percent truth. It is very clear that what they taught left absolutely no room for creationism. So, if this is what they teach in science class, im just going to assume they teach it as truth (to the easily influencial mind who believes everything their teacher says). This is dangerous in many ways. The biggest way is the amount of hypocrisy involved. Science claims to operate merely on facts and evidence, yet has no problem putting out 90 percent as 100 percent truth. This is dangerous. Fair enough. Only he didnt say it with any doubt in the program. Christianity teaches we came from God, the how is not as important as the where. yet again, I didnt hear any of that in so much as a hint. Not quite. I dont discard evidence that is true. In fact, im trying to make an attempt to explain how I see extreme parallels between God and science. Rather than try and explain why the "evidence" leads us to believe in only science. Well they are still human. I guess we'll just have to hope they are being truthful with all their findings wont we? Coincidentally, what is your defintion of a scientist? I would sincerely like to know. In that thought process you may see parallels in the fundamental qualities of a scientist and the fundamental qualities of a spiritual believer. I dont at all think God didnt intend us to find what we found in any spectrum of the minds limitations... or lack of. (wonder) For example, both a scientist and a believer are inspired by truth. Curious to say the least. "We didn't start the fire"