georgerussia

So now you start talking about biblical interpretations. And here's the catch: there is a lot of bible interpretations available. Every religion has at least one, and some religions have several. Obviously everybody thinks their interpretation is the only correct, but obviously two contradicting interpretation (like Catholic and Jehova Witnesses) cannot be both correct. This means that it is impossible to choose the correct interpretation. More, it is still possible that there are no correct interpretation available yet. Therefore if you are talking about any biblical interpretation, do not expect anybody to agree with it - because the Bible was (according to Christians) inspired by God, but those interpretation were written by far-from-perfect humans. Your interpretation is completely out of context - which is the case most of the time when the opponent replies by "read the whole ", instead of just providing a quote from the Bible to support their conclusion. Here is the whole passage: 7:9 And he (JC) said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: The conclusion - what I said is written directly in the Bible, and what you said is actually a ungrounded conclusion. You are now making a serious statement that the Bible was "enchanced" comparing to the old version. Do you have any proof of this? C'mon, you are going too far in your interpretations. There is nothing about "spiritual death" in my quote, and obviously the Sodom and Gomorrha were physically destroyed, not spiritually. Only for those who believe in it; and the quote talks about the people who do not believe. You cannot scare me with the Hell, I do not believe in Hell. It is the same that you do not believe in Mamabu you'll be sent to after death unless you send a check to a Bill Gates. By "living as JC actually taught" you obviously mean your own interpretation (or compatible) of the Bible, right? Obviously it is the only correct interpretation, and therefore everything which contradicts with it is wrong. It is understandable that not many people wanting to live your interpretation of the way JC taught though. Note that disciples assume (by default) that either him or his parents were sinners. And JC didn't contradict their definition, just said that this man is blind not because he was sinner, but for purpose for JC to demonstrate his power. Well, if you talk about _interpretations_, I'd say my arguments are no different than yours. Obviously you cannot say that your interpretation of the Bible is better than others unless JC came in person and approved your interpretation directly. So this argument is useless. Because there is a single THEORY, with all the knowledge, and science. With the Bible there is NO singel theory. People have been studying the Bible for the last 2000 years, and still cannot create a single interpretation everyone would agree on. No, thanks. I am not interested to learn YOUR interpretation of the Bible. There is more than hundred of them already exist. I copy my quotes directly from the Bible. What ateist sites are you talking about? Maybe. Or to this pervert Catholic priest from the news last year. If you work on your interpretation long enough, you'll convince yourself in anything. I'm not interested in theologia. It is just another interpretation made by far-from-perfect people, who can make mistakes. So again - no quote, just your interpretation? Could you then please mark parts in your posts which are based on your interpretation of the Bible, not on the Bible itself. It would help me to skip them next time, as I have no wish to argue your interpretation. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

So are you pro or against gay marriage? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

That's exactly my point: - if your parents provide you with BC, but you do not want to have sex (for any reason, including not having an opportunity), you won't have sex. - even if your parents do not provide you with BC, you'll get yours when you think it is time to have sex. with conclusion that providing BC does not really affect child decision to have or not to have sex. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

So you defend that: - Parents must kill the children who cursed them: Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death - Any city which does not "recieve" Jesus should be destroyed (with its population) like Sodom and Gomorrha: Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. - No peace brought Jesus, but violence and division: Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: - Physically handicapped people were sinners: John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. 2 Peter 2:7 - 2:9: 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: Could you provide a quote? I just quoted JC's words that the children who curse their parents should be let die to death - which is even worse. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Because if they are, then you denying them a right to be married. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

In your church? :) I've met several gay bikers though. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

How many non religious people you know who're against gay marriage? You mentioned they have "feelings" - are they gay, or they just have feelings for gay people? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Yes, but to have a law you should set strict guidelines. Every age-related restriction could be challenged this way, and I am sure no one can say why the restriction for buying alcohol is 21 - so it is "unsafe" for the person who is 20 years and 11 months old, but in a month it somehow becomes safer? So it seems reasonable not to give fetus even the rights the children have. This one sounds strange for me. So a 1yo boy cannot have property on his name (i.e. he owns)? Sure he cannot for example sell it, but doesn't he have a right to own it? Sounds strange. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Technically yes - it is the same issue that the people, who think the Christian religion is fake, and therefore should be banned out of country, have the right to lobby for what they believe. But fortunately the Founding Fathers were smart, and US constitution still provides us the ability to struck any law which is based on religion. Unfortunately it takes time and efforts. So as someone already pointed out, it is time for non-religious people to become more politically active. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

That is why I am not talking about "our country", but "our society". Is there any country, which treats fetus as a person? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Nope. I explicitly mentioned that number of instances doesn't really matter, as the child can get knocked up or get STD even from a single sexual contact. It is boolean - either the child is having sex (and it doesn't matter is it once a day or once a year), or he/she does not. So the question is, would you lose it, for example, two years earlier if your parents provide you with condoms? "Yes" to the first one, and "no" to the second one; unless the kid is having sex in his house, he personally must ensure that he'll have it on them when needed. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

You said you're Christian. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

The problem with this argument is that a punishable murder is "killing a person". As you know, our society does not treat an unborn child as a person. So thinking this way we have much broader question - are we going to give the fetus all the rights any person has? For example, a right to enjoy healthy living (and therefore putting his mother in a jail when she smokes)? A right to own property? IMHO this is going to create much more complications than benefits. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

I'm still hoping to hear any reasonable argument against abortion, which would not be based on Holy Lord Jesus Christ and other religious b-t. So far the only one I've heard was "I'm not comfortable with this", which is not an argument at all. If you are not comfortable, don't do it yourself, and leave it to someone who is comfortable. There is a lot of people who are not comfortable jumping out of airplanes either, and this doesn't mean this activity should be banned because a bunch of people thinks it is too dangerous for us. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Bill's quote was not related to sex with minors. You are supposed to know the Bible, aren't you - so could you provide the exact quote? It might be, as the Bible doesn't say how old they were. However I would say that the Bible advocates this behavior - as not only Lot was punished, but also was referenced as "righteous (wing?)". Yes - it shows that one apostle describe a father who had sex with his daughters as "righteous". * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

No, because pedophilia is not consented sex. But yes, I do feel the same way about gay sex, for example. It is not your church's business what two consented adults doing in their bedroom. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

You are choosing topics very carefully. What would you say about gay marriage? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Sorry, Bill, I didn't make my question clear. We talked about whether sexual acts with minors are forbidden in the Bible. Steveorino's opponent said that from his memory, the Bible condemms homosexual sex but not sex with minors. And this implies that the God prefers pedophilia to homosexuality. And Steveorino said that "The bible (Paul) speaks against both". So my question was: where exactly the Bible speaks against sex acts with minors? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

And here is a problem. Your faith, and "moral standard" are based on beliefs, not on facts - so far I failed to see any evidence from you. So when you try to lobby against anything based on your religion, you are actually forcing anyone, who do not belong to your religion, act according to your faith. And this is completely unacceptable, that's what freedom of religion was for. If you believe something is immoral - don't do it, nobody is forcing you to do so. But don't force others to live according to your beliefs - it is not your business what we do with our bodies. Remember that a lot of people do not care about Heaven or Hell. That is probably the main reason a lot of people do not tolerate Christianity. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Are you sure? Could you provide the exact quote? Because I can provide you quotes from the Bible where people were sleeping with their daughters. For example, Lot had sex with two his daughters (GE 19:30 - 19:38), but Peter (2Peter 2:7 - 2:9) still says that Lot was "that righteous man". * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Are the doctors in Italy are paid top salaries (by this I mean they belong to one of the best paid occupation)? Would it be possible to get average of all the doctors, not top neirologists from private sector? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

There is nothing wrong with having faith on something. But it goes wrong when you are trying to force others to act according to your faith - for example, by attempting to ban abortion for everyone, not just for the people who share your faith. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

Excuse me, but I have asked you a question, and the question was completely unrelated to me, my understanding of God, or the color of my socks. Could you please answer it without discussing things which are not related? I can even repeat: you claimed that "there are still a lot of gaps in man's understanding of God". The question is related to the word "still", and asked whether your understanding of God has been improved in any way? choosed "your" instead of "man's", as it might be hard for you to speak for others, but if you're ok with this, let's answer it. And I'm still waiting for a "a ton of evidence that He lived, and was crucified" - or there is no chance for me to see any? Then why you ever mentioned it? * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

I see it the following way: if the kid doesn't want sex, and a parent gives him condoms, he'll just throw them somewhere, and forget about them. If the kid wants to have sex, he goes to Safeway, buys a condom and puts it in his wallet. In both cases the access to real BC instance is somehow restricted - you have to keep it with you, no matter whether you got it from parents or from Safeway. How immediate it is - depends on the kid. Yes, if by "not have sex" you mean but "not have sex right now, and probably do it tomorrow", not something like "let's wait until we're 18" I'm saying that if the person says he wouldn't have sex w/o condoms, but keeps comdoms with him, the person already made the decision about it. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

That's why I was waiting for an answer :) As you know, modern genetic researchers have confirmed that according to human genes we did NOT have a single ancestor, and therefore the Noah concept failed right here. * Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *