LloydDobbler

Hey, rhanold - just to echo what most people are saying (seems to be the general sentiment here), I'm glad you had the video of it, and I appreciate someone posting it. This type of video is "inflammatory" in the best sort of sense. Having never done a high-altitude jump before, I've always heard the word "hypoxia" batted around...but never considered just how serious a threat it could be. The fact that people could see this sort of thing and not do anything about it says a lot - not necessarily about the people, bur mostly about potential lethality of the condition itself. And the fact that we can see it, instead of just hearing about it, drives the point home. Hard. Interesting that the rest of the world seems to put a stigma on skydivers as "thrill-seekers," "adrenaline-junkies", "crazy people who like to lose control". I've come to realize that as a skydiver, my biggest fear is losing control. A funneled exit is "losing control," sure, but short of being knocked unconscious, we can all get ourselves out of them. Do we take risks? Sure. But most of us seem to be taking educated risks, and not seeking out an unsafe situation on a regular basis to try & kill ourselves & walk away from it. That's what makes this video such an eye-opener: the fact that you can be standing in an open door at 18,000 ft, unaware of the precarious situation you're in (esp. if you're like me, and haven't been able to afford a Cypres...yet)...pretty much unaware of anything. I never knew. Thanks for opening my eyes (and the eyes of lots of others, judging from the thread) to it. It may save a life one of these days. Signatures are the new black.

The whole idea is for noticeability. Not whether you would like the colors or not. Best-looking? 9 or 10. (From a design standpoint, too many colors generally equals "fugly." I know you want it to be noticeable, but do you really want it to be noticeable only because people think it looks crappy? For 10, even though there are still just as many colors, the black accents the other 2 colors, rather than making things more busy.) If you don't care about aesthetics, 14 is the one that stands out the most (but again, to me (graphic designer), it stands out because I find it pretty tacky). It would turn my head on a dropzone...then I'd turn my head the other way, real quick. No offense intended, we all have different tastes...but you asked for opinions, so I'm giving mine. If I were you, I'd go for 9 or 10. Both are noticeable (yellow is tough not to notice), but they're not so busy it makes your head hurt. Signatures are the new black.

Smartest thing I've read so far today. Good job! Ditto for me. Congrats on saving your life & walking away from it. Signatures are the new black.

Please. You're arguing semantics here. If you want to say it's not "good" marketing, fine. What I'm seeing is another person chiming in trying to argue about the meaning of a particular word, rather than contributing to a discussion about trying to find a solution to a problem. If we keep getting hung up on arguing whether or not Skyride's marketing can be classified as "good," then we deserve to be frustrated with Skyride's success, because we're just arguing ridiculous points & not actually doing anything. I'll correct: "Skyride has effective marketing." Better? ...can we maybe move on to some productive discussion? (edited because I can't seem to type straight.) Signatures are the new black.

It's not great marketing. It's bullshit, frustrating, deceptive crap. Couple of points here to keep in mind, since emotions seem to be running high in this topic again - To clarify, I never said their marketing was ethical - only that it was good. A lot of people selling shams have very good marketing. Snake-oil salesmen have used that technique ince before the beginning of time, it seems - wow them with professional-looking advertising, take their money, and run before they come back looking for you with a shotgun. Skyride seems to have updated that model for the new millenium. I am putting myself in the first-time jumper's shoes. When I go looking to do a "high risk" sport, I'm going to look on the web, find the one that looks the most professional, and then call them up. Why? Because as someone who doesn't know anything about GA or skydiving operations, I don't know what I need. All I know is I want to make a skydive at the place that seems safest. Or most convenient. And Skyride's websites seem like they're both. The websites also appear to have a lot more money put into them than many DZ websites...which translates into perceived value for the customer. "Therefore," thinks the whuffo, "they must have the money to put into their planes and gear to keep them safe." The point I'm trying to make is this: good marketing sells & builds awareness. Its purpose is to do nothing more. Obviously, Skyride's marketing is good...or at least better than the legit dropzone you were referring to above. As illustrated by your point, the non-jumpers knew about the Skyride "dropzone," whereas they had no idea of the real DZ nearby. (In Florida, no less, where there seem to be about as many DZ's as there are Chevron stations. ) Since people are aware of it, Skyride has marketed itself better. That's what I was trying to point out: if a DZ within 60 miles is getting less attention than a Skyride website, then obviously the legitimate DZ has some work to do. Nevermind that Skyride's business model is about deceiving the customer - if you have a better product, though it's up to the customer to do their due diligence, it's ultimately up to YOU as a business owner to let people know you're there, and you're better. (And for the government to enforce fraud laws when they're broken...but I'm not an attorney, and I don't know that any fraud laws have been broken here.) Back to the point, Skyride has done a better job of letting people know they're out there. Read my post again - you'll see that I was in no way apologizing for Skyride's shady business practices. I never have. (When I said "selling a better product," I meant in the eyes of a non-jumper, it appears to be a better product). But as we all know, what they're selling and what customers are getting are 2 different things. I think almost all of us on this board (with the exception of the few Skyride employees) feel pretty much the same way about Skyride. What I'm trying to do, rather than just venting about how frustrated I am with them, is to take a deep breath, look at the "why's" and "how's" of the situation, and then try to see how we can fix the problem one step at a time. We're all frustrated by it. But rather than sitting around and talking it to death (he says, 2000 posts in), perhaps we should quit the griping and try and do something? Skyride is obviously winning the PR battle on a national level. Their linking up with E! and SkyMall, etc, illustrates that. Which is unacceptable, given what they're actually selling. I'm just looking for weaknesses that might be attackable. Because in all honesty, I'm tired of this thread still being here.

Alright. Back to it. Above was my view of the problem (aside from the fact that Skyride is screwing people, making our community look bad, and keeping people from experiencing this sport we all love so much. All of those things are part of the problem - but they're not something tangible we can do something about. The two things I quoted above hopefully are). So...what can we do about it? I'll take these one at a time. 1) Skyride's great marketing. Okay, there are 2 things that can be done about this: a) Help your local DZ make its site better-optimized to show up on Google. If you have a friend who designs for the web, get them into it. Technology has changed, and table-based designs from yesterday just don't cut it anymore (and when they do cut it, they at least look like they weren't thrown together in FrontPage.) Find a way to make your DZ's marketing look like they spent a million dollars. It'll pay off. First impressions are hard ones to shake, once they're made. Best to make it good from the beginning. b) Report Skyride's violations of Google's terms of service to Google. Skyride is implementing some "black hat" SEO techniques...which are things Google has banned. If Google finds out about it, they can be booted from Google's index. (It happened to BMW at one point, so I'm fairly certain it can happen to Skyride). The issue: The most egregious use of deceptive SEO on Skyride's part comes from the links at the bottom of the page. Back to the Southern California example, they have links that read "Skydive San Diego," "Perris Valley Skydiving," etc at the bottom...but when clicked, they only redirect you to another unrelated page within the Skyride site. What they're doing is called (among other names) "keyword seeding" - they're placing keywords that people might search for onto their webpage, in order to fool the search engines' webcrawlers into associating their sites with those keywords. The result is that when someone Google's "perris skydiving," for example, Skyride's pages also show up in the listings, due to the keywords being on their page. This is deceptive, and it's the type of thing that Google prohibits. (In another example, if you Google "Des Moines skydiving" & click the first page that comes up (a Skyride page), the links at the bottom of the site's pages are less-deceptive...but still redirect to within the site, and thus are still there to deceptively show keywords to Google's webcrawlers. Again, it violates Google's terms of service, and they could be banned for it unless they shape up.) ------------------- How to let Google know about it: Unknown to most users, Google actually has a Spam Result Reporter at http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html. It's the place to go to let Google know when you find something deceptive on a website you found through Google. You have to enter the search query you made, the page of results that came up in Google, and the offending link...and they'll (supposedly) investigate it. If each of us just takes a moment to Google "____ skydiving", where ___ is a city or state near you, and report the Skyride links, Google might take a look at them. In the notes, simply state something like "The links at the bottom of the page look like they're only there to promote keywords, because they don't take me outside of the site, even when it seems like it's an outside link." I've already reported the links from a "Los Angeles skydiving" search...but that doesn't mean that other people doing it won't further encourage Google to take a look. (Incidentally, did you know that Skydive Sacramento is the "closest skydiving center to Los Angeles"? http://www.skydivesacramento.com Neither did I.) I should note, however, that complaining to Google about Skyride being "scam artists," or about them not having a dropzone in the place they mention, will do no good. That's not against Google's Terms of Service...but deceptive keyword placement is. Ethically, I don't think all of us doing this is an objectionable practice in any way. Sure, our motive may be that we don't like Skyride's shady dealings, but this is not a concerted effort to try and bring down a company through sleight of hand...it's just a group of users following the rules & letting Google know that a site with a very high Google PageRank is obtaining that result by "cheating." Skyride is breaking the rules here, and Google should know about it & take appropriate action. If the deceptive SEO practices can be eliminated, then some other dropzones might have a chance at getting into the top search slot for a given query. Next up: 2) Skyride's (seemingly-)better product & media alliances. This is where it gets much more interesting. ...but I'll leave that one be, for now. I'll let you all digest. Again, apologies for the wordiness on a somewhat-boring topic... KC

Okay, folks...long-ass post ahead. I've been doing some research for a bit now, and I have a few things I think should be said. The first thing to do with any situation of this sort, be it business or otherwise, is to identify the problem. So here goes. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Skyride is succeeding - in spite of the occasional bad press, and in spite of their shady business tactics - because they're utilizing GREAT marketing techniques, and because they're selling a better product. Asking why they're doing so well is almost akin to asking why people go to Home Depot rather than their tiny local hardware store. For one - the person knows they can find what they need at HD, whereas the mom n' pops store might not have it. Additionally, Home Depot's advertising materials are so good that they've synonymized themselves with "home improvement," so when a person thinks of where to go to get supplies, the bright orange logo naturally pops into their head. (All of this is not to say that HD is a shady company - I like 'em, myself. But I see the analogy). Skyride's materials are top-notch. Though they utilize some unscrupulous SEO (search-engine optimization) techniques, their websites constantly rank high in Google, and they constantly look better than a lot of USPA-member websites. Potential whuffo customers see the perceived value, think, "I'm putting my life in the hands of these people," and tend to go with the one that looks more professional. There have been a number of discussions about trying to outbid them for keywords, etc, etc, on this thread...and it's my opinion that doing so will just cost the bidders a lot of money, and not really accomplish anything. The fact that Googling "Los Angeles skydiving" yields Skyride pages for 6 of the first 10 free results says it all. Even if Skyride doesn't do paid search ads (they do), their sites are still better-optimized than most sites of dropzones around Los Angeles, and are thus showing up at the top of the listings. Until legit dropzones start optimizing their pages & building better websites, skyride is still going to get more website traffic. Additionally, Skyride is doing what all well-marketed companies do: they're leveraging the media in their favor. They're getting great national press by partnering up with people like E! Networks. How can they do that? Because they spin their product to make it sound more exciting & convenient. Think about it - they're partnering with hotels for a Valentine's Day promotion. They're making it easier for people to have an exciting experience (seemingly...until the couple actually arrives for their jump and figures out the sham). If I didn't know any better, I'd go with them, too. Okay. That's my assessment of the situation: 1) Skyride is doing great with their marketing. They're building a brand for themselves, with top-quality advertising materials and SEO'd websites. 2) Skyride is offering a product that's more attractive to consumers...and they're partnering with the media to gain more exposure and grow their business. Since this post is already getting long (and lots of you are already asleep after I got all long-winded like I do), I'll go ahead and post it...then type up my thoughts on possible solutions in another post. Skies, KC Signatures are the new black.

Yeah, I'll agree with Loonix here. I didn't learn too much about the aerodynamics behind canopy flight with my FJC - just the extreme basics, really. During that course, I learned things like what flaring does to your overall downward and forward motion...it was less about the scientific theory behind flight and more about what you'll specifically encounter when flying your wing. I've always thought of it kind-of like a driver's ed course - you don't learn how an alternator works during it, but you do learn how to drive the car. That being said, autoset, Bill's great post above is succinct and tells you the basic mechanics of why a canopy moves forward upon opening. I wish I had his gift of consolidating paragraphs of important, detailed information into a few clear, concise, understandable sentences...but brevity just isn't my strong suit. Also, I don't know what your experience level is - how many jumps (if any) you have. I can't specifically remember any of your other posts. So if you find yourself still interested in the "how does this work?" aspect of things, what I will suggest is this: When you feel comfortable with it (being an AFF student is enough to worry about, usually, before you start getting into stuff like this), order a copy of Brian Germain's book "The Parachute and its Pilot." I learned more about the aerodynamics of canopy flight from that book than anywhere else. If you're not at that point yet, wait until you get cleared for self-supervision, or until you've got your license, then pick it up. You'll find lots of stuff you hadn't thought about written in that book. It's good stuff. Skies, KC

Hey, Jason - As someone mentioned above, the best advice I've ever heard is to demo like crazy. You might just find something you like. My plan right now (I'm kind-of in the same boat as you) is to grab a container and reserve, then start demoing mains until I settle on the one I like. Though I've actually jumped at your DZ & seen the bias, I come from a DZ that's a PD stronghold (though there's not quite the level of fanaticism that one finds at San Diego - and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, everyone has their favorites, that's cool ). Up until I jumped at SD, though, I had only jumped PD mains. Since then, I've flown a few different other canopies, and started to narrow it down to what feels best to me. Yep, everyone's got their opinions...but personally I'll say that I've enjoyed the Spectre, Pilot and Sabre the most (and the Silhouette wasn't bad, either). Wasn't so fond of the Safire2, but hey, that's just me. I know that lots of gear dealers have demo programs that are good...dunno about the other manufacturers, but I did find out that PD has their own demo program, where you pay them something like $40 for a week, and they'll send you a demo canopy to hook up to your container and fly it. Dunno if Aerodyne or Icarus does a similar thing, but if they don't, I wish they would. I think it's a smart way of letting people test your product. Ultimately, all bias aside, I think the best decision one can make is to fly as many canopies as one can to see what really works for them, then make the most informed decision possible. Luck, KC Signatures are the new black.

Hey, folks! Up until now, I haven't yet found anything to suggest re: the site (or at least, nothing that affects me enough to warrant bringing it up...as the operator of my own web-based company, I know how it goes with bugs. Can't ever seem to squash 'em all)...but I now have a suggestion for the classifieds: I noticed, when posting an ad for a used container or complete rig, there's pull-down menus to designate all the gear sizes, etc. But what would really help me (and some others like me) a lot is an "originally sized for" field. See, here's the problem: I'm 5'5", 117lbs. soaking wet...so even when I find the right container size (or "holds this size canopy" designation), the harness tends to be big enough for me to dive through & not touch the sides. I'm looking for a rig to hold a 150sf canopy, and I keep finding rigs that were built for someone 6'1" or so. Or 5'6", 160lbs. (You get the point.) Back to my suggestion, for instance, you might add a couple of lines to the database for the Containers category so when listing the ad it gives you a pull-down menu that asks for the "Originally built for someone XX-YY to QQ-ZZ", where XX & QQ are heights, & YY & ZZ are weights. By standardizing it via pull-down menu, it would make it much easier for someone to search it...and thus for a person who's smaller or larger than your average skydiving bear to find a container that will fit him or her. (The women in the sport would probably really appreciate this site mod). I suppose this would work for both containers and complete rigs...and perhaps for jumpsuits, as well. Again, it would just be darned convenient to be able to search by body size from the start...as opposed to just searching for the right container size in the subject, then sorting through 40 or so rigs where the person selling is 6'2", 200lbs. (thus rendering it unusable to me...well, at least without some serious work.) Any thoughts? Thanks for pondering it.

Just to bring us back around to that original subject...I work in the entertainment industry too, on the "in front of the camera" side. You'd be surprised how much money one can make from a "Class A" network commercial. Once pay-per-play kicks in, well...let's just say a friend made enough off of doing a commercial like this to put one of his kids through college at USC. Of course, he was already married, so he didn't really have to worry about some of the *other* problems that go along with this sort of ad being shown regularly during 'Friends,' 'ER' & "The Simpsons"... Not sure if I would be doing one, at this point in my life....

Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. In the certifiably-disappointing world of "customer service" today, it's refreshing to hear that companies are still doing things like that. Glad you took the time to tell us about it - I'll definitely be checking both of 'em out. (I've been needing a new set of gloves, anyway...) Signatures are the new black.

Yup. What Kevin says is right. Worth going to all 4 of 'em, then seeing which one floats your boat the most. All have their pluses and minuses, and all are nearly as close by, depending on traffic & whatnot. (Heck, Lompoc is only 20 minutes or so further away from Malibu than the others...). Again, everything depends on traffic. (Regardless, welcome to the area! After you find your home DZ, then you get around to taking day trips. There's no shortage of DZ's within a day's drive. Southern Cal is a good place to be...) :-) See you around, KC Signatures are the new black.

Yeah, I'll chime in here and agree with Drew. The tunnel will help in more ways than one. In addition to giving you the opportunity to really evaluate and see what's making you move (over more than just 50 seconds of freefall), it adds a key element to the game the next time you're jumping out of a plane: confidence. I've met several people who were having trouble with one particular leg of AFF, who just got some time in the tunnel where they could slow it down and think clearly without the stress of having to "pass" something...and all of whom passed every level on one try after that experience. I know it helped me during AFF. Just by that alone, I'd recommend going. But there's also this point to be made: tunnel time is only going to help. It's not like you can say, "Oh, I'll be wasting that money." Nope. It'll just make you a better skydiver, in the end. If you're on the fence (and it doesn't sound like you are, but just in case), I say go for it. I would.

I'm in full agreement here, Krisanne. To Richard, like I said before, yeah, things go wrong. People fall down. It's how you get back up (and what you do to make sure you don't fall down again) that are the true measure of a person. The thoughtful analysis of the situation (and your willingness to share it) says a lot. Richard, your post has brought up another question in my mind. I'm going to post a new thread on it, however, since it's related to a broader area than your incident in particular. But like I said before, congrats on surviving...& be sure and bring the beer (maybe when things warm up a bit). Looks like I'll be at Mile-Hi this weekend...though I doubt you'll be back this soon, if ya are, maybe I'll see you there. KC Signatures are the new black.

Hey, man - glad to hear you're okay. My GF saw the whole thing and was worried. It sounded like a scary thing to watch, much less go through...so I just wanted to look for some more info. Judging from the way you're talking, I'm sure you know by now the best thing you can do after this sort of thing: learn from it. Then something like this becomes an opportunity, rather than something you'd rather forget. The whole "that which does not kill us makes us stronger" thing...literally, in this case. (And incidentally, I'm sure you know the beer rules...ahem...I take it this was your first time hitting a building under canopy? ) This event might also show you one of the cooler aspects of the beer rules (at least IMHO): if you have something like this happen and bring beer as a result, you'll almost inevitably wind up talking about the event in question with more than one person. You'll gain lots of different (valuable) perspectives...and you'll probably hear a lot of stories from some of the FOG's about similar situations they went through, or witnessed themselves. And stories from those who've "been there, done that" are a great learning tool...aside from being just plain cool to hear.

Hey, BSG - I'll have to throw my hat in with the Mac folks as well. A few reasons: 1) I just love mine. Made the switch about 5 years back (after spending most of the 90's scoffing at Macs because, at the time, they were in fact crappy), and computing has been a different experience ever since. This, from someone who was a DOS wiz & used to hack around in places he shouldn't in the early 90's. 2) How many Windows peeps do you hear who are as happy with their computers as those with Macs? I used to scoff at the fanatacism, but now I find it's there for a reason. 3) A Mac actually costs roughly the same, if not cheaper, if you're comparing oranges to oranges. Sure, you can't get a MacBook for $600 like you can a Dell notebook...but that Dell will have a slower processor, not enough RAM, and few bells and whistles (all Mac notebooks, for instance, have a webcam built in...). You can find lots of cost comparisons on this by Googling. A Dell configured with the same hardware as a Mac notebook runs more. 4) Better service. I spent the better part of last year working in an office that used all Dell notebooks. Our IT dept was always in a bad mood. Not a day went by without an issue on one of the machines (mine included)...and when the issues did occur, the IT dept. had a horrible time trying to deal with Dell's Premium Tech Support (which the company was paying extra for). And this was for a small computer software company, no less. 5) Now that you can run Windows on a Mac, why not get one? If you find you like Mac's OS better (most people I've met do), you ditch Windows. If you find you want to stay with Windows, that's okay too, because tests have shown that Macs actually tend to run Windows faster than Dells (when you load Windows via the free Boot Camp software). Anyway, I think Apple has positioned itself to really take a bite out of the Windows world. They've been getting Editor's Choice awards at PC Magazine recently. I'd highly recommend you at least check one out. Whoever you buy it for will be glad you did. Happy whatever, KC Signatures are the new black.

So I'm posting this here, since I'm not sure if this qualifies as an official "incident" (and since I heard about it secondhand) - was anyone jumping up at Mile-Hi yesterday? Wanted to see if anyone had any additional info on this: I heard word from someone who was there that, after a weather hold for most of the day, an AFF-3 student on the second load got a long spot, tried for the landing area, and wound up landing on the roof of a hangar. He slid off, apparently landed on his butt, and was up & daisy-chaining his canopy before his instructors got over to him. He said he felt fine, but apparently most people there thought that he had broken (actually, the word used was 'shattered') his tailbone, and was still in the adrenalin-induced high, so the pain was dulled. I don't want to say any more about what I heard, since it's secondhand knowledge on my part, and I don't want to promote hearsay...but I would like to get some additional info, if anyone was there. Is the jumper okay? Any word on any injuries? Feel free to move this to another forum, if need-be. Like I said, didn't want to put it in Incidents, since I'm not sure if this is a big enough incident to qualify. KC

Whoa! Testy, testy!! Down where I grew up, there' an expression: "The bit dog always hollers." As someone who may or may not have more experience than you in this sport, Jraf, I'm curious as to why you're so defensive about posting your jump numbers and your license? (incidentally, none of us knows if you actually have a license - F-111 isn't actually a license number. Hope you knew that.) Not meaning to stir up the argument, but seems like, if you expect people to take you seriously, you'd realize that this is relevant information to those of us who'd like to see the argument from your side... KC Signatures are the new black.

With only 47 jumps, I can't comment on the prevailing DZ rules and regulations of this whole thing. Need some more travel experience before I open my mouth there. However, as the owner of a business, this struck me: Just to further what a couple of other folks have said on this one...in short, yes. Aside from the contractual obligations that the OP has pointed out, here's my thoughts on the issue. They involve a cost-benefit analysis: Which of the following is going to cost the DZ more money? 1) Refunding the money and paying a 30-cent transaction fee, plus 2% of the amount refunded, to the credit card processor. For 5 jumps refunded at $22 apiece, that's roughly $2.50 total it costs them to refund the money of someone they've said they don't want jumping there to begin with. 2) Arguing with the customer, balking at refunding his money, which takes up some time that they could be using to do more productive work. The whole scenario causes a scene, which possibly turns off some other jumpers who are visiting there. Then the offended party - rightfully annoyed at a) not being told the rules to begin with and b) having a DZ employee speak down to him in a harsh manner, when a simple, "I'm sorry, someone should have explained the rules to you" would have done nicely - he tells his jumper friends, and posts it on the internet, where some guy who jumps in Southern California sees it and thinks, "Hm. I dunno if all the guy said is true, but there are a lot of DZ's in Florida. I'm gonna head to another one when I'm down there next month, just to avoid the potential hassle of dealing with Titusville." With the advent of the internet, word of mouth has a loooooong reach. Because there's a lot more than just one guy in Southern California reading this thread. So, above are 2 scenarios - which do you think is going to cost the DZ more money? The $2.50 in transaction fees, or the bad word of mouth spread across his circle of close-knit skydiving buddies AND, potentially, the internet? This isn't skydiving-specific - it's just good business. Makes me appreciate the attitude (or lack thereof) at my home DZ even more. When I started my company, I realized that you can't force your product down a customer's throat if they don't want it. Sure, you may walk away with the money for the meantime...but you're cannibalizing yourself for down the road. Holding someone's money hostage by refusing to accept a return on a product they don't like seems rarely a smart thing to do. It ultimately shows you're not confident enough that your product is good, and that you can sell it to someone else. LisaMarie's & Thanatos's excellent comments re: cash discounts & reversing transactions notwithstanding, it only makes financial sense as a businessperson to just refund the money. Otherwise, I as a customer will vote with my wallet. And my mouth. The best advertising is word-of-mouth...and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than paid ads. KC Oh, yeah, PS - All that being said, Kevin also makes an excellent point. I am a little wary of this entire thread, just because of the lack of profile on the OP. I would give it a lot more weight to their comments if he/she would tell us something real about him/herself. The person does seem to be making some good points...but none of that tells us if they are actually qualified to be making these sorts of assertions.

Good call from Voltage. I echo what the rest have said - my girlfriend was having some AFF-3 issues, and went in for 10 mins tunnel time...then split another 15 minute block with me. Her next 3 jumps have been stellar. She's glided right through them, according to her instructors. And my tunnel time has helped me immensely recently - I've been working on sit-flying since getting the license, and the tunnel skills have kept my belly-flying in good shape. I would also echo what Voltage had to say above about getting a 30-minute block at once: you will be exhausted if you do it that way. Might be better to do 2 15-minute sessions, if you can. Have fun! Signatures are the new black.

Congrats on the fourth jump, Gato! It does get easier as it goes along...but every person has their own rate of getting adjusted, and their own way of dealing with it. To that end, I'll just share: I've always found it works best to have a trigger point. To elaborate, if I was feeling really nervous on the way up to altitude and telling myself, 'No, don't feel nervous' the whole time, for some reason the nerves would stay with me up 'til I was already standing in the door. Perhaps my nerves are just as stubborn as the rest of me. It wasn't until I changed my approach that my skydiving really started to kick into high gear. I started saying, "Okay, you have permission to be nervous on the way up, you have permission to be telling yourself that this is the LAST time you'll ever do this...go ahead & get it out of your system. "But when the door opens, that permission is gone. You've got a job to do, and you've got to do it well." Or if we were riding up in the 206 instead of the Otter, I made my nerves shut off when we got to 10 grand (since, as a student, I had a little bit more wait time when the door opened on the Otter). Nerves are ultimately a good thing - you're jumping out of an airplane, which is a pretty good reason for something in the back of your mind to say "Excuse me. We have a problem here." So don't suppress the nerves - they're justified. But they have their place, and they need to shut up when you tell them to, so they don't distract from the situation at hand. Again, sounds like you're already winning this battle, but just thought I'd share.

Exactly. If I own a DZ in Boise, Idaho, and I bid up the phrase 'Skydive Maine' on Google AdWords...well, I might drive some people to my site, sure. But if they come to my site and find out from my 'contact us' page that I'm in Boise, I doubt it's going to help me much. The distinction lies in the fact that most (if not all) of Skyride's websites are deceptive in nature by not including their actual address/location (for the most part, because they don't have an actual address/location). They talk about 'their dropzone,' etc, at skydiveXXXXX.com...as if they have a physical DZ at XXXXX location. They show (pirated) pictures, and they describe their nonexistent 'facilities'...but they never give an address. But you already know all that, if you know anything about Skyride. Distinction is, if someone's up-front about where they're located, then I have no problem with them advertising wherever/whenever they feel like it. It's the omission of that crucial info that makes Skyride less-than transparent...and more-than-deceptive. Otherwise, pour your ad money into whatever distant ad you want to. Just realize that mileage may vary, as with all advertising. Competition isn't a bad thing. Deceptive competition is.

who is your dealer ?? Actually, I was just pulling that figure from RWS's pricelist. $2189 base +hip rings +hackey +spacer foam +Skyhook +other various little mods comes pretty close to $3 grand. http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdf_files/05252.pdf But yeah, obviously you can do better with dealer discounts. Since I don't have an open quote on one at the moment, like I said, I just glanced at the RWS pricelist to get a good estimate... Probably should've said, 'don't quote me on that,' though, due to the dealer thing. Back to the topic at hand, though, it is kinda like buying a car - when you're spending more than a grand on something, what's $25 extra for something cool gonna hurt?