Lucky...

If it's so great, why do Canadians come to the U.S.? Why are British teeth so fugly? Now you are just trying to misunderstand me. I'm just trying to say that the way a state provide health care for all should be done in whatever way fits that state/culture best. This question don't have the same moral implication. /Martin No, I don't do that. I may get argumentative; sometimes you may not see the way I am opting to illustrate my point. But one thing I do not do is just nay-say to be a dick, or a thorn in people's sides. Believe it or not, my aim here is to discuss things, and like in the scientific method, peel away the bullshit so we can get to true understanding. Sometimes I make sport of it, but I never act in deliberate bad faith or deliberately "misunderstand" someone to bolster what I have been shown is a fallacy in my own argument. I would sooner concede, "I was wrong; you were right" (and have) than just be a bullshitter for the hell of it. In this case, I was using that example because I took you to mean that whatever is necessary to deliver this vaunted "universal care" is what should be done. If that was not your meaning, fine. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If it's so great, why do Canadians come to the U.S.? For faster care and that came from a Canadian citizen. Now, urgent care is the same as here, long-term care is delayed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why are British teeth so fugly? If they're like Candian care, it's because their uni care doesn't provide for dental coverage. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...but I never act in deliberate bad faith or deliberately "misunderstand" someone to bolster what I have been shown is a fallacy in my own argument. You just avoid some issues like, what is the negligible number of innocent people we can execute in order to have a system that executes the guilty. You employ avoidance.

No it's not an utopia, it's the way of almost all of the industrialized world. Now you are just trying to misunderstand me. I'm just trying to say that the way a state provide health care for all should be done in whatever way fits that state/culture best. This question don't have the same moral implication. /Martin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No it's not an utopia, it's the way of almost all of the industrialized world. Right, neo-cons seem to think that the US are breaking new ground with their ideologies, when, in fact, we are so antiquated it's pathetic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now you are just trying to misunderstand me. I'm just trying to say that the way a state provide health care for all should be done in whatever way fits that state/culture best. This question don't have the same moral implication. Yea, he'll get abstract on ya, then he'll check for typos.

These points are excellent. I hope you are not seriously expecting honest-to-goodness rebuttals to them. Liberals do not debate from a point of strength when you bring up rational questions and challenges to the illogic of their positions. This garbage and you won't address why the gov can allocate 8 times the #2 spender in the military and numerous tax breaks when we have far and away the richest people in the world here......

Nice, let's be abstract. Hey, why don't we have governemnt agents follow us around and ensure we have kleenex when we need them. I realize you'll avoid this like the plague, but how is it the govs right to allocate my tax dollars for a war that was started on a lie or to spend 8 times the next top spender for military operations? BTW, unemployment is paid for by employers, not the gov unless the employer defaults.

We call it "socialized" due to what has to happen for healthcare to become "Universal". We would have to nationalize a considerable amount of property, pay scales, some intellectual rights, pharmaceuticals will be R&D'ed like Govt contractors if they aren't nationalized. ect ect. . . Socializing means giving government control of a major piece of the economy. However, if the govt keeps everything private and just provide money, then it will at best be only twice the cost of the IRA to operate. That's not including the cost of contractor-style mesh of govt and private companies cooperating. Personally, I would rather have other people work harder to pay their own insurance than I have to pay exta to provide them theirs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Socializing means giving government control of a major piece of the economy. As opposed to directing corporations to decide if Johnny gets the operation.....hmmm, that is tough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Personally, I would rather have other people work harder to pay their own insurance than I have to pay exta to provide them theirs. We've been on the credit card for 140+ years anyway, so it's not as if you pay for guy X. Furthemore, I litterally have never once heard the anti-uni care guys whine about military expeditures.

The biggest IRONY I can think of about "universal (government-run) health care" is that as much as the left, which champions it, HATES the way the government is run and doesn't trust it with anything, not even investigating terrorist threats to our very lives... this faction of the political spectrum CHEERS the idea of the government running a system entrusted with the maintenance of our very lives. We hold that our medical information is of the utmost private nature. Then we see government computers getting LOST with all kinds of sensitive information -- who can trust them not to fuck up in a MONUMENTAL WAY with the most sensitive data on citizens imaginable? All because a stumblefuck government is put in charge when it hasn't been proved to be able to manage a motherfucking thing right in all these many years. I would ask the cheerleaders of government-run health care, Why do you suddenly trust government on THIS? Here's an even better question: If the next president and Congress are Republican, BUT they bring us a viable universal government-run health care plan and implement it, will you be so trusting? Or is it only Democrats who could ever do it right? So now you offer some hypothetical tangent about the gov losing records. PEOPLE ARE DYING AND LIVING WITH CRONIC DISEASES, do you think they give a fuck about privacy in records? This article is just another of the many human abuses this gov projects: the gov spends 8 times the #2 spender for the military, who is Britain, and yet denies basic medical care.... now let's hear how horrible China is, a country in their horrible ways, still provides HC.

Right, fewer people get quicker care, no argument. It's about exclusion.

Uh, which college and what gold plated prison are you talking about? I believe the prison costs are in the ballpark of 40k/year. (Florida was first hit, claims 19k) No one is getting a 4 year degree on 20k, not unless you ignore non tuition costs like food, shelter, etc. Mine was less than 20k for tuition and I went to a major state university after trasferring 60 credits from CC. Of course sincee your guy has done 8 years of wealth trasfer, tuition has litterally doubled.

Part and parcel of that is the notion that no matter how much money you have, how hard you've worked to become wealthy, there are places (Canada is one) that makes it ILLEGAL to pay for health care out of your own pocket in order to get the best care. I guess that's why wealthy Canadians come here[/] to get top-level treatment. Let's all pretend we don't know that that goes on. Let's all be liberals who just want to repeat a zombie mantra of "Universal caaaare." Or be a neo-con and pretend people who don't have care don't want it.

When will you figure out that SAYING universal care would be good and is what we should have is hugely apart from coming up with a way to provide it to everyone?! Do you honestly think that there is anyone around who is opposed to having as many people as possible have health coverage? The debate is over how to provide it, and how to pay for it. That's it. Don't pretend that taxing people to death is a viable way to do it. If we wanted, in the U.S., health care coverage like they have in European nations, we'd have to have an income tax rate over 50% like they do. Do you want that? I don't. Expensive things tend to be limited to "high income" anythings. These countries you mention, how many of them have zero- or negative-growth economies? Quite a few. How many of them have taxation at a level that Americans would tolerate. Like, none. Oh, and I guess you don't entertain the arguments that the quality of care in countries with socialized medicine SUCKS... Well, the rest of the world is socialist. We don't want to be that. Sorry. Go move there if it's so much better. Mexicans move here because it's better than where they came from, after all. Gee, I have an idea, take the 660 billion we spend on the military per year, not including Iraq funds, and cut it in half, use that for uni care..... real easy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If we wanted, in the U.S., health care coverage like they have in European nations, we'd have to have an income tax rate over 50% like they do. Do you want that? I don't. Canada's is not that high. For 40-50k yr earners, it's about the same as here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Expensive things tend to be limited to "high income" anythings. These countries you mention, how many of them have zero- or negative-growth economies? Quite a few. How many of them have taxation at a level that Americans would tolerate. Like, none. Wrong, provide evidence of that for Europe. As for growth, we are now neg growth, right? If you remove an employers contribution to HMO's, that frees up a lot of $$$. As well, all of their currencies have been killing us during your president's term. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, the rest of the world is socialist. We don't want to be that. Sorry. Go move there if it's so much better. Mexicans move here because it's better than where they came from, after all. 3rd world country as compared to industrialized; nice comparison. I would love to move, or I can stay and make a change.

Why is that? I'm just glad it looks like the end to the Reagan/Bush regime that has fucked this country. How is it the left cares of this thread?

WTF are you talking about? That's in the UK, I couldn't give a rat's ass about them. How about the US, or is the Republican model to ensure our Imperialization of the world by fixing them first? I say uni care for American citizens.

Only since Iowa? We've been suffering the same Bush shit for 8 years. Why are all of your defenses just pointing fingers? Bush's term is over. What is Obama going to do for us besides say the same thing over and over and over? He wants to: cut taxes for 95% of the middle class provide health care for every american provide college funding for anyone who wants to go fix social security beef up the military stop iran's nuclear program curb russia's aggression end our dependance on foreign oil within 10 years hire an army of teachers and raise all of their wages disallow companies to send jobs over seas balance the budget reverse global warming Not once did he say how he was going to do any of that. Cut taxes and provide quality healthcare? Increase teachers salaries and provide government funded student aid? Curb Russia's aggression? It's the same rainbow and blue sky, head up your ass wishful thinking he's had all along. You hated Bush. I get it. Come up with a real plan and I'll listen. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why are all of your defenses just pointing fingers? Bush's term is over. Point is, if McSame is elected/appointed, we will suffer the Bush disaster again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not once did he say how he was going to do any of that. Wait for the debates, that will come out. Clinton did it with the 1992 Omnibus Spending Bill, raised taxes on the rich significantly and cut military spending. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's the same rainbow and blue sky, head up your ass wishful thinking he's had all along. You hated Bush. I get it. Come up with a real plan and I'll listen. Clinton did it by cutting military spending and increasing social and educational spending. Worked for him, the deficit improved every year until it turned to a surplus. I think Obama will follow what Clinton did.

When does a VP matter anyway? Hell, Nixon's had to quit for tax evasion, LBJ was the last VP that mattered, unless you considered when Reagan was shot and GHWB took over for a few days. Obama is change, like it or not.

Only since Iowa? We've been suffering the same Bush shit for 8 years. Just think, if the Nazis win, you'll have at least 4 more to get back on your feet.

The WHO claims the world needs uni-care, when will the US figure it out? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080828/wl_nm/who_dc_4 "Virtually all advanced countries have universal health care systems but we don't think that should be limited to high-income countries," he added. Except the US..... yea, we're right, the rest of the world is wrong.

This should work: If a US airplane crashed in Canada, where would they bury the survivors?

What the fuck are you talking about Bill, I think Bush looks very regal as in the attachments. http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic41.jpg http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic28.jpg http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic35.jpg Edit to add, those fuckin POS sites aren't working: http://www.bushorchimp.com/

WOW, I did not think anybody in politics would show that they think so much of themselves to the public What did Bush say about a kingdom being bad, unless he's the king? Yet you have no issue with that, so quit the semantics and addres a few issues. Oh, the Republican issues are stinky?

So RDA entertainment means?????? Do you have a clue? Does medical care, the economy, the debt or silly things like that matter to neo-cons?

I think McCain should as well, that's would define his understanding of the common man. McCain: - votes 95% as with GWB - Wants mnore war - Wants more corp breaks - Wants privatized SS - Wants no universal care - McSame, another tenr of Bush and you think it's better? Ideologues existed with Hitler too and they went o their graves denouncing the world for causing a great man to commit suicide.

Considering illiteracy rates, we should probably stay away from words and just use the color system already in place; Red vs Blue Or we could label them with animals...oh wait, we've already done that! ltdiver Maybe for the Republicans, we can use Giranimals to match their cloths, we could do the same for politicians.

Right, just stating that based upon today's terms. Revolution, dissention are liberal things to do and either some on here refuse to believe that or simply cannot comprehend change.

I never presumed to tell anyone how they are faring. I did point out that despite the problematic components, consumer spending is up and the overall economy grew (a hair). Crying recession long enough is only going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's bound to happen because our economy does seem to cycle -- about every 6-8 years it seems. If I start spouting that a plane is going to crash...sooner or later it's going to happen. I place the current energy burden on the energy laws passed in 2005, 2007 and the weak dollar. Ethanol is a great idea, but not at the expense of the food supply. Bush didn't veto a bill from congress for the 1st 5.5 years, so the R Party ran teh nation. Let's look at the numbers: Currency in teh toilet, world hates us, debt thru the roof.... do I really need to go on? Come on out of denial. FOR this post and THIS post only, I agree with you 100%!!!!!!! THEREFORE....... we don't need to be in a recession to win the WH, congressional seats or dog catcher.

I never presumed to tell anyone how they are faring. I did point out that despite the problematic components, consumer spending is up and the overall economy grew (a hair). Crying recession long enough is only going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's bound to happen because our economy does seem to cycle -- about every 6-8 years it seems. If I start spouting that a plane is going to crash...sooner or later it's going to happen. I place the current energy burden on the energy laws passed in 2005, 2007 and the weak dollar. Ethanol is a great idea, but not at the expense of the food supply. Bush didn't veto a bill from congress for the 1st 5.5 years, so the R Party ran teh nation. Let's look at the numbers: Currency in teh toilet, world hates us, debt thru the roof.... do I really need to go on? Come on out of denial.