RiggerLee

that would be great except it was really full of fluff. I hate trying to read any thread on there. There is plenty of room for a technical, fact based, discussion. I'd be curious to hear the exact condition of the rigs at impact. Exactly where were they in the opening sequence? Did the cypresses show a record of an on time firing? Vid? But all of that will probable have to wait... for a while. But what I don't want to have to do is try to dig through all that shit for the few crumbs of relevant hard data. In short please don't remove this or other threads like it but could we just table it till there is some kind of report? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Isn't the RW-10 a bit beefier then the others listed? The really nice one is the RW-9 Now that's some beef and the... I think it's the 1076, that goes with it is a strong little bastard. I just wish that it was longer like the Aerodyne RW-2 variation so that it would have better leverage and not transfer load to the third ring. But the Aero ring is just too light a gauge. It fails by bending and wrapping around the RW-9. Even with an RW-10 you can still see cutting at the wrap of the middle ring. The larger radious does help but we still saw damage there. Ultimently the failure occurred at the small ring as it tore lose from the riser but if it had not failed there I think it would have cut the riser around the RW-10 I've seen risers fail in skydiving. But the odd thing is I've never seen them fail at the grommet. I've seen them break in all other ways but not there. Weird? I've seen them streatch. Looked scarry. But I've never seen them fail there. Every body said they did but all I ever heard was vague stories about how every one knew that they failed there and then I watch one break the tape on the small ring or break a riser leg above the confluence wrap, or well you get the idea. Not saying it hasn't happened but I've never seen it. With out a doubt there have been hard cut aways. but to be honest I've always been a little skeptical about the real cause or if it's a combination of things. Some of the "solutions" have seemed... well they made people feel good. I guess that's important but some of them I don't know about. Plastic tubes? If you've got enough force to be a problem then bending a plastic tube into a spriral under that much force sounds like a recipe for a real disaster. Hard housings that aren't long enough where the cable sticks out the end. What if the edge digs in to the cable beyond that housing? What about housings that stop above the confluence wrap and get bent against the cable making rough spots in the coating? Hell what about all the other problems that can contribute to the whole system? Drag in the housing? Housings hard tacked to the harness under load? Bad geometry? I'm just not sold on this as the end all solution and that any one that doesn't sew after market hard housings in to there risers is going to bounce on the very next load. By the way. I have numerous cut aways on a javelin with the dreaded soft housings. OMG I'm going to die. Never had a problem. Still jumping them. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I new Chafen for years. We jumped at the same dropzone for a while. I got recruted to "test jump" a lot of his new designs. This was like his pre pre test jumping program. Keep in mind that the final buyer was in truth his test jumper program. Like bata testing soft ware only with your legs on the line. But don't worry. When you buy the canopy from him it entitales you to life time support and all the upgrades and mods. So when the canopy stalls out on flare and plows you into the ground he'll be there to fix it. Often on the spot there at the drop zone, retriming it on sight there for you between loads. The sissure witch to the rescue with his magic raiser blade. All jokes aside. I knew him for years. Very interesting fellow. Did a lot of things over the years and whether you beleave it or not this guy actually contributed a lot to sky diving especally in the early square years. Just had to stand up wind of him. I have never seen a heavier chain smoker. By the time he died he was allready half embalmed like a mummy. Lazers. I can tell you all about lazers. Although these things were never addressed formally in SB there are a number of things you should be aware of. These are thing that we here in texas just know. First. The first thing you must allways do in inspecting a Bob Chafen reserve canopy is to comferm that it has lines on it. Make visual confermation. Hell count them, make sure they are all there. Yes there is a story. He once inspected, stamped final inspection PASSED, boxed, and shipped a canopy with no lines on it. No shit. Eaven sent the guy a bill. QC in his shop was a little hit or miss. Second. The second thing you must do is inspect every single bartack. You've all heard of the Swift Plus issue right? Well that was one incedent where some one changed the width to like sew there jeans. I mean it only affected a hand full of canopies but it became a big SB that every one knows about. Check out Bobs bartacks. Operational standard: At least some threads from at least one side of the bartack must pass through the line. That's the best you can hope for. His bar tack was a little... wide. I'm talking the small short one he used on lines. Often especally on micro line it would be wider then the line in questin and one full side would miss the line compleatly. This is normal. Third. The third thing to do is double check every bartack in the break lines. He used Red 900 lb dacron for his break lines. Guess what. The red bartacks were not exactly obveous on the line. Offten they would make it through inspection with no bar tacks in the break lines at all. I found a bogi with no bartacks in the upper end of the main break lines when I was repacking it for a guy at quency. He'd just had a ride on it. Canopy had been in service for many years. So, no, bartacks are not absolutly nessasary in all locations in a line set but I like them so feel free to modify his canopy by adding them to the break lines. I wont tell. Later canopies have light blue bartacks on the break lines to easy the inspection process. Fourth. The fourth thing to do is check and see if it has nose bartacks. If you look at most modern canopies at where the ribs attach to the top and bottom skins. Say at the point that the unloaded rib joines the top and bottom or at the top of the loaded rib. Normally you will see a bartack joining the tapes there. This is not always the case on a chafen canopy. I have seen them both with and with out bartacks. Now I am not sure if this was just an over sight or a change in production standard. I called Bob about it and he said that the bartack was not nessarary and that a simple back stich was adiquit at that location, and told me that it was allright to pack the reserve. Now this is up to you. You are the rigger of record and canopies have been built both ways but if you happen to have a small bartack in the shop and can match the stitch pattern... well I wont tell. And for the record I have seen a lot of nose failures on various canopies where they broak heavier tapes then that. So I don't think much of just a little back stitch. I could go on but these are some of the main points and besides I'm getting tired. Make sure to check all the attachment points and all normal areas of wear. Check the sewing on all seams. Crooked... well it was Bob so that's ok, it was normal and this is a lower performance canopy buy check and make sure the rolls are all ok. Some times they got... funcky. Other things to be aware of. No tapes on the ribs. One main cross port. The rib does not go all the way to the tail. Pack volume is small except for the dacron lines. Check the size. The "normal" size was like... 227, it's been a long time. But there were all kinds of mutant sizes, exspecally with the mains. I think there were even a couple of vareations in the size of the reserve. You know... that shouldn't really be so vage with a TSO'd reserve but we are talking about Bob. Any time you get one of his canopies in it's good to check all of these things. Rarely did he build two canopies in a row the same way. He just couldn't stop him self from monkeying with designs. I once tryed to make a list of all the vareations that I'd saw in one canopy design... but I gave up. For the record. To the best of my knowlage. The bogie, I think it was the Bogie, is the only reserve TSO'ed in the catigory TSO c23C Note the C on the end. Every thing else except... the cricket is B. That's faster and heavier then every thing else. I did hear that he had to play with the slider but apparently it passed. He knew a bunch of millitary people and I think he piggi backed on there drop test to get his high speed done. The canopies do work. I have jumped them. They do work. We had them as both main and reserve in the student rigs at Ennis when Mark was running it. Lotts of jumps on them. The performance is low. The lack of ribs at the tail makes a very rounded draggy edgy. The lines are long Which makes responce seem sluggish on some of his designs from that generation. They are long enough and the canopy slow enough that you need to keep it in mind on the flare. Like all canopies full flight before you flare. If you make eaven a small corection before flare the pitching and lines are long enough that the canopy may not have time to recover. In short I've jumped the shit out of them. They work. They are what they are. Don't go thinking you can load them over 1-1. But if built right they will work. And... Well I'm assuming some one gave this to you for free, They can be a pritty good deal. Free + Work = Good Deal. Or at least that's the case in my book. It was free... Right? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

This is actualy a really good topic. I did a talk on this at the last PIA. I think it's very relivent to how a pack job turns out. A lot of the probblems I see with containers relate dirrectly to problems with the pack jobs put in them. Issues of riser covers, tuck tabs, stiffeners, odd wear, and even permanent dammage from wrinkles. You just cant get them out after they've been "set" by a bad pack job. In the most extreame casses I think it can eaven affect functionality. One of the things I tryed to focas on is why diffrent canopies of the same "size", I use the term loosly, are fundomentally diffrent shapes. How you have to change the packjobto fit a container, even changing it from one canopy to another in the same size and type of container. And ways of changing the maner of folding in order to acomidate the greater length of some canopies as you put them in the bag. Basically it was a diatribe on how you should semi ignore the manual and fold the canopy as nesassary to fit the shape of the bag and hense the container. I tryed to address bulk distrobution lengthwise in the canopy as it layed on the floor. Where to make your folds based on that. How to split the canopy into two "ears", both above and BELLOW the center cell allowing lower folds to extend past the loop giving better wedge shapes to the pack job and absorbing length in the canopy. It also allows you to better chose where to make the folds based on where the bulkier areas of the pack job are length wise. Unfortanently based on the faces I saw in the crowd I think I preaching to the quire. I wish I could have given the lecture to all the people that couldn't come to PIA. Most of the ones there didn't really need it. To all of you out there in dropzone land, You know it's next week right? Come if you can. Call in sick, get in the car, and drive.There is still time to make it from any corner of north america. It had been several years sence I'd been to one and I had a blast. I saw so much cool new shit, I was blown away. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Are any of the manufactorers there in FL going to be running tours during PIA? Maybe on the Sun before or Sat after? I don't supose theres maybe a bus takeing people out there or some thing of that nature? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Are hot seats banned? I remember back at Quincy I was over at , whats his names hanger he ran the WFFC, with Wag. We were looking at a couple of megs they had just gotten in and they had some L-39 there. I was talking to one guy thats one of his macanics about the cost of the planes and of operation. I couldn't beleave how cheaply you could get one for. At the same time I met a guy that did the seats. All the rockets, electronics timers, etc. He was based out of Las Vagis. He did every thing but the parachute. Wag had been repacking the L-39 parachutes for them. He had an actual video manual with bad music and I think a voice over. He was trying to get me to stick around for another week and give him a hand but by the end of the boogie I was done, stick a fork in me. So I never actually packed any of them. I was under the impresion that the paper work could be done with the seat eather live, or with the piros deactivated. Depending on the design the parachute might still be opperable and might still need to be repacked. I want to say that some of there seats were live. But as I recall they did have some kind of contract where they had a pilot that would act as an agressor for the millitary. Although I seem to recal that it was the canadians. It was Quency and a lot of my memories are a bit fuzzy. The other encounter that I had was when a guy in Dallas bought a couple of megs. He brought two of the seats into the adventure loft. They were in variing states of assimbly. I think I had them figured out as to how they worked. At least 90%. When I say that I'm speaking at a vary fundomental level. Like how the canopy could come out of the container. They were that weird. I think they were going to make the seats hot. I can not imagion how else the fucking things could work. I mean like there's this big metal frame with the pack that stays on your ass, froget plf's with this thing. I don't see how it could work any other way, had to be hot. He wanted us to repack it as part of the airframe. It would actually be signed off by the A+P. Or at least that's how it was explaned to me at the time. We made a deal that if he could get the instructions in english we would put it togather for him. In the end the closest he came was to get us every other page but it was for a diffrent seat. No relevance. We finally kicked him and his pile of shit out the door. I didn't talk to the FAA my self, but as far as we could determin it would have been leagle. Scarry as shit but tecnically legal. I also got the impression that none of these people really knew what they were doing. I don't even know if the thing ever flew. Still curious about how other foren aircraft are sold and operated here in the us. And visiting aircraft? How do they fit into the FAR's and what would be the story of PEP abord them. The way I understand it a US flaged airplane is kind of like a little peace of us soil when it's over seas. On the other hand I hear that there is a lot of paper work nesasary for a us airplane to fly into say Mexico. So I'm confused. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Has every one frogotten Jhon Stories old ad's? You know, some guy in Texas, a personal friend of Bob Pope. Can we at least get an honerable mention for the man. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

So what would be the legality on this? So the ejection seats we pack are sort of aproved as part of the plane when the FAA signs off on... there operating manual when then write there... airworthiness sertificat? Most of these things wind up as an experamental, exibition? Or at least that's my understanding of how they get away with it. Could some one clarify this? So how does it work if they get some thing more mundane like a glider or small plane in. Does the FAA respect some kind of europen certifacation? How does it get translated? Does it operate under those europen rules? What about a europen PEP in it? Could it be included in the paper work when the FAA signs off on it? For that matter what if the aircraft was... visiting? What if it had an F number rather then an N number? Say it was some shit hot euro aerobatic pilot here for a world championship. What about foren jumpers? I was under the impresion that if it was a foren national jumping foren gear it could operate under it's own standards. And I have packed foren gear for them many times. Was I wrong? They said an FAA rigger could pack it. They had to help me fill out there log books. The weirdest one was the guy from Saudi, don't get me started, they were dicks. Question doesn't seem simple to me. Thoughts? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm in favor of seals but I think it's important to keep in mind what they really mean. Some people seem to operate under the ilusion that they are some how unfalible and can not be defeated. It always freaks them out when I show them how to to take the seal off the pin with out breaking it. Generally depending on how the knot is tied you can work the trread down the pin one knot at a time till it's on the skinny part and then start on the next till you can slip the loop off the end of the pin. Wala seal defeated. Now this doesn't even touch on all the things you could do to a rig with the seal intact if you had malishish intent. Rigs with two pins are even worse. I once watched a young rigger fret over how to seal a two pin rig, I think it was a prestige or swift or some thing. The guy was just all tied in knots about how to do it so that it would be "tamper proof". In the end I think he settled on some elabrate thing with threads running to both pins with elaberat knots and shit. We all had a good laugh after he left. The point is that it's an imperfect but worthwild system that does serve to keep honest people honest. And it has served well at times. I think it's important the the seal have the symble on it other wise what's the point. Not that people check them Joe Shmo is a verrry active rigger in north texas. I am trully amazed that I have never met him as active as he is. Allas he does not seem to have gotten his own seal yet. I'm not joking. People use that name. Laughed my ass off the first time I saw it. We've had rigs come into the shop that we've tryed to decifer the cards on. I remember one that the guy brought in because the cypres wouldn't turn on any more. The battery was dead which should clue you in on how long it had been but the card sayed every thing was fine. In the end we decided that it was my pack job in there. It was still my seal although rather battered and we think based on my book that the third of my signitures up from the bottom was the real one and it's last repack. That was something like 15 sigs back. Ya, it was that bad and looked it. That's what really pissed me off, it wasn't like the guy took decent care of the rig. Now let's say he had a ride and bounded. Another simular story. The story about how Storie got his stamp. He used to sign it like every body else. No more. He had a customer who was one of the most acomplished forgers I have known. I think she would actually bring it in once every couple of year or if she had a ride of course. Finally after years of "packing" her reserve Storie got sick of this and got a stamp for his name and number. The Amy Baly momoreal stamp. And that is the story of how Storie got his stamp. Good argument for a date stamp on the seal. I'll give you another example of it's imperfection. Fatality. Interesting because the reserve malled. Seal was gone, no surprise there. So the card has my frinds name on it. You can imagion the hubbub over this. The FAA was interested but actually very cool about it. There were a lot of issues that might of contributed to it and I doubt the pack job was the biggest of them. They open her other rig that I had packed side by side with him. Marked as haveing been done in the same shop, and find my pack job, which is neat I'm not a bad packer. In the end it was rulled bad luck. I'll tell you who was most fucked up over the whole thing, Tom. I mean it really shook him to his core. The FAA didn't bring any action against him but it was like a year and a half before he could bring him self to pack another reserve. And this was in a bussy loft where we had a lot of shit to do. What's the point of all this. About three years later we find out that it wasn't his pack job. We heard the story round about from the guy that helped her repack it after a splash down. It was never Tom pack job. All kinds of shit could have happioned. The FAA guy could have been a hard ass. The Family could have been vendictive and sued. Tom was actually really fucked up over this, He never showed it, He's just fudomentally an asshole not the touchy feely type that shares. But for over two years this weighed on him and to this day people give him shit and talk smack about him for "killing" their friend. That's another no bull shit story. Point is This whole concept only works if it's utalised properly. She checked in with her other rig. No one ever gear checked her second rig. She jumped it for... I don't know a couple of months? With some one elses pack job in her container under his name untill she finally bounced with it. On the related subject of rules that we already have. The soft ware that every body seems to use for manifist. I can't speek for all drop zones but it was what skydive dallas used to keep track of repack dates and it was the first and only line of defence in that regard. Don't get me wrong it actually did a decent job for the most part, although I wish that it had given about two weeks warning before it would n't let you manifest. I don't know if they ever fixed the bug but if you manifested as a "team" it only stored one date for all the rigs on that "team". In other word on an eight way team with camera 17 of the 18 rigs that the "team" was jumping all day could be out of date. The seconddary rigs in perticular were a problem because if they manifest indevidually it again only keeps one date. So the second rig... well it was lucky if it got packed once a year for nationals. It's a bit of a sore point for me because I almost got fired when I figured this out and started checking cards. Boy did I piss people off. This ignores the fact that that it jepridises the pilot and leaves the drop zone hanging in the wind. So honestly although even what we have now is imperfect If we would just use it even as it is right now. we would probable be ok. I'm not sure changing the regs is the answer to all of this. I've been ramballing cause I'm boad. These are all real no shit stories about abuse and neglect of the system as it stands right now. I'm not sure reg changes will fix it. It might take a big scandle/law suit/shit storm to make people pay attention. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Hook them to some thing where you can really lean back and put some load on them. How far off are they under load? There tends to be more stitching on the rear riser and you may be seeing shrinkage. The tension may have been turned up high on that machine when it was sewen. Or they might just be off. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

One way to generate a malfunction under a perfectly good canopy is to be playing with it and do some thing to... unload it. At that point if you pull on a toggle you can turn the canopy above your head into line twist with out rotating your body. At that point you can be cought with one toggle all the way down, the line traped in the line set, with the canopy pinwheeling above you. It will sort of be stalled out in a flat spin. This is most easily done with a relitivly high performance canopy at a relitivly low wing loading. I've seen it a number of times with young jumpers, and I seem to recall at least one fatality. Pulling the slider down lets the risers spread making you more stable. Always a good thing. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Show us a picture of it instaled in your shop. No envy till you find a place to put it. That's the hard part. I've got one on a beauty of an 8 foot table but I can't find a place to put it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Keep in mind that they leave a bit of edge beyond the last row of stitching on the unloaded and top skin. On the bottom I might sew the tape a bit higher with the top seam and then tuck the three edges on the bottom under and sew the last line. That's one of the heavier load points. You could use a wider tape there if you needed to. You might want to have you're B line slider stop at least as low as the A line Or make sure to put a stop on the outer A. A's like to shrink and pull through the grommets. You can get functions that way depending on how you build the attachments. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It's not beyond hope or reason. I have seen this. The woman I'm thinking of was a skydiver. She packed for him. She caried his bags for him. And I'm not talking a gear bag. They lived out of state and would come down to the DZ for long weekends. It was like they moved each week and she would cary these bags to and from the car setting up their house hold. I think some of the bags out wieghed her. And she did it with a broken foot, hobbleing along in a cast when she couldn't even jump. And... get this, SHE LIKED PORN. Easily the finest woman I have ever seen in my life. I have no clue how he won her affections. I don't recall if they ever maried but she was way above him. I guess it all comes back to that old axiom. In every mans life he will be aloted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so apreceate them while the time you have with them last. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I think there could be some advantages for you. Looking at this in the long term, think about what will happion to overseas corperations as the dollar becomes less attractive. It's being bropped up very heavily right now to try to maintain us markets for foren, chinese, goods. Right now it's to there advantage to do this but as us debt becomes more and more unatractive I think you will see a decline in the strength of the dollar. In other words over seas manufactoring/foren goods may become much more expenceve. No more wallmart. as an example Apple seems to be moveing some of it's production here. I think you'll see more of this at least from people looking far enough down the road. So withen say five years it might actually be an advantage to build here in the US. On the other hand I'd look sereously at the liability disadvantages of being incoperated in the us. How much more exposure do you have. This might be a short vs long term statagy. Eather might be workable if you plan in advance with the expectation of law suits. It's easier to take the money and run if your bags are already packed. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It's been around for a long time. It was suposed to be a compediter to the early cypres. And in the most basic sence it succeaded. however it had enough problems that it fell out of favor and just disapeared into history. In other words there are plenty of reasons why you have never seen them. They were out there and you could probable pick one up cheep. With enough tender loving care you can nurse one along but why? And I'm saying this. I'm normally more generous and fergiving of flaws and limitations in a design. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm guessing you've picked up some kind of roll attachment. Just for the record you can probable go simpler. Loaded rib top seam, you can probable get by just sewing the stack togather as long as you have a bit of excess on the out side. Loaded rib bottom seam, I think you could use one less roll, so just an up fold. You might try baisting the tape on the rib to make it easy. Un loaded ribs, again I think you could just sew it down as long as there is a bit of excess beyond the seam. Stabalizer, Again I think one fold is enough. this all assumes you are hot cutting every thing. In the past we did put in extra folds, try to hide edges, and all that. Now that we're hot cutting every thing we're getting lazy and for the most part finding that it's strong enough. There have been a few time we've gone to far. As an example, Germain tryed something fucked up for a while. Eventually the ribs just came loose. It was just an over lap of the top skins and the ribs. He might have gotten away with it if he's had more seam allowance but it just pulled out at the two edges. Knew a guy with an old Jonithen like that. But honestly you're makeing it a bit hader then necasary. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Base-R or what ever he's calling him self along with Jump shack are building a version of the old strong pop top belly reserve. Fully TSO'ed. I'm wondering if they have an instalation for a modern AAD? If not they're at least active in the market. I supose you could find an old Sentnal, that is if you could find cartradges and get it callibrated... They did instal them on the old belly warts. There were some piggy backs that people installed FXC's on that were from the "Round" eara. One relitively modern option that comes to mind is a Strong Starlight Tandom rig. Tandom in the sence that the reserve was on the back. I think of this because that was what I learned to jump with as a student rig. I'm honestly not sure what they originally put in the main but the manta 288 rattled around in there and they had to instal a second set of gromets to make it tighter. It probbable held the later lower bulk PDA's. In this case a Star Light main. I don't know if you could get a full on PC with sleave to fit or not. If you did a dyper or bag/POD it might fit but you'd probable be better off looking for an RW PC or one of the other low bulk designs. I don't know how big you are but piglets with dypers pack up pretty small. They cam eaven fit into some of the larger "modern" rigs. You used yo see them in large wonder hogs. One cheap option would be a Mill free fall rig. Tom picked one up for $500 bucks compleate, actually I think it was missing the Ripcord but it was not demilled. Short of a tandom it's got the largest tray around that I can think of and would defanently hold a dypered round. I honestly don't think you would enjoy jumping a 7TU bone crusher again. Honestly there are better rounds out there. Speaking of which did any one ever come up with real honest to god patern sets for a PC or any of the other clasic PDA's? I'm in a slow spell here between launches and my double neadle with a puller needs some exercise. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

This is a base canopy thing but keep in mind that they did pop a couple of 400 lb center cascaded a/b lines on a base jump, see the fatality report. So it's getting a bit minimal for that location. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

For now you can learn a great deal about it's stability and dynamic caricteristics by playing with it up high and then chopping it. If you hook a small weight to one of the toggles, little sand bag, just before you cut away it will streamer straight down very nicely. That's really where you should beguin with this in any case. You really don't want to feel comited to landing some thing that you know little about only to find that it has stabillity problems or does not pitch well dynamicly. You might look around for a master rigger that would be interested in your project and enjoy working with you on it. Even just an endorsment or sign off on aplications would go a long way towards makeing you look legitament. There has to be a process here. Where do new manufactorers come from any way? And I think you'll find that a lot of the older... board members, or what ever, that you're dealing with may remember the days when the "manufactorers" were working out of their garage. As long as they think you are serious and responcable they may be willing to help you. Try to have a plan when you talk to them. Start documenting and building files. Develop paper work to record your testing and gather real data. Graphs in a computer always impres people. I think you'll find that if they have faith in you they will bend over to help you. What times of the day are you around? I've been trying to keep an eye on skype but you always seem to be off line. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

No clue as to the answer, but I can tell you this, We have a russion "presure suit" and it's quite light. Not heavy at all. Normally I think of "space suits" as very heavy bulky combersom things but this is not. No real insolation, It doesn't have the full "suport system" that you would think of, AC and heating, etc. And the aproach to it's construction is much diffrent and so much simpler. It does have constant volume joints, sort of. They use a system where they have a loop of cable that runs through a curved sleave pulling a pleate in the joint. So the joint can move in an arc compressing on one side and expanding on the other. Very simple and light. Rather then building a custom suit they use a laceing system to compress it in a number of dementions. It will fit a wide range of people. And it is a full presure suit rated for full vacume. In any case I don't know the answer but there are some lighter weight options out there. It's just really cool. I almose shit my self when I walked around a corner one day and saw this thing just gathering dust in the corner of the shop there at Armadillo. I like walk past it setting in a pile on a landing at the top of the stares. At first I had no clue what the pile was then I saw one of the rings to attach the gloves and I do this big double take. I was drawn to the thing like a magnet. Phill notices that I'm not following him and calls back over his shoulder, "Oh yah, that's one of the Russion preasure suits, come on I'll show you what we need sewn on... shuch and such." I don't remember if he had to drag me away by my collor or not. I wasn't really seeing or hearing any thing at the time. My mind was filled with visions of the moon. Have space suit will travel. Did I ever mention that thouse guys have way too many toys. Don't even get me started on the pulse jet powered go cart. This has totaly digressed. Just pointing out that there are some really striped down options out there. The things are around. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I actually had to go to a paper manufactorer. There was one there in Dallas. I went in and explaned what I wanted. I had to finger fuck a few samples but they had exactly what I needed right there in the ware house. It wasn't even that exspencive. honestly the hardest part of the whole thing was putting the roll in the car. It out wieghed me by a good margin. Paper is HEAVY. But I've got a life time supply of patern paper. You're looking for some thing about the weight of poster board. Mine is manilla in color. Sorry Wish I could tell you more but that was years ago. Tryed to get what I wanted else where in smaller quantities but no joy. Poor me I had to buy a whole roll for half the total cost of buying a smaller quantity. As for the stops, Get some large finder washers. There's actually a good bit of force on them. Don't skimp perticuarly on how you sew them to the lines. The stabalizers tend to get tears around the stops. Or at least that's where they start. I'm not sure it's extreame stress so much as the fact that the fabric is always at a weird bias there. You get weird little tears. So don't be afraid to put some tape there running along diffrent angles to help protect it from weird loads. See how PD runs a tape across the top of the stops or a vertical tape. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Ok, vids are up as loop cut 1 and loop cut 2 if you go to the video area http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Miscellaneous/loop_cut_2_2406.html http://www.dropzone.com/videos/Miscellaneous/loop_cut_1_2405.html So what you're seeing there is a Vigil cutter wired into our computer. There's a fuse in parillel with it. You'll see the fuse blow and the cutter fire cutting the loop. It's a 500 lb vectran loop. The thin wire runs through the cutter giveing the computer feed back on the release of the main. You'll also see a pin puller being activated at the same time although it's macanicaly slower. At the top of the frame you can just see the top of the recovery section. This is the setup we used on the last flight in early nov. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

So it wont let me up load the video here but I found another spot on the web site to up load it. It will be under "loop cut 1" and "loop cut 2" in missolanious. It looks like it will have to go through some kind of approval process, probable checking for kiddi porn, but it shud be up soon. Boringest vid ever for any non rigger. In any case keep an eye out. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

You know this actually could be kind of cool. You've seen how they spread out when they fall and jump. I wonder if they would stay stable on their bellies. A rig would be easy. I've got pin pullers and old aad's. Any body ever taken a cat into a wind tunnel to see how they act? Pud, Robbins old dog used to love to jump tandom with him. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com