RiggerLee

As to the quality of Russian gear, any one have a link to the container that came apart at the upper main lift web junction? That was a few years ago and I don't think I ever heard about the actual history of that exact rig, but it did come apart bigger then shit. Their is design. Their is quality of construction. And their is the whole subject of QC, materials tracking, vinders and suppliers etc. Those are three separate issues. You can fix two of them your self but the third, you are kind of at the mercy of the greater industrial environment that you are working in. If their were going to be problems any where, I'd sweat the third one the most. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I don't know the exact details on the fabric. It's my understanding, and this is based on hearsay, that it was not as heavily calendered as f111. This gave it a higher tear strength because the fibers could move more relative to each other. In theory it makes for a relatively tough canopy. I've heard that the early Strong tandem reserves were made from such a fabric for exactly this reason. And I can tell you that I've base jumped the shit out of the Pegasus canopies that I've owned. Also you may find other differences if you compare it to a furry. Better tapes and construction. There were also changes to the furry over time in the line attachment points. The tapes on the flares now go up the ribs. People were starting to figure out more about panel shape in this time frame. For example that was some of the changes that Hazlet made when he redesigned the Raven into the Super Raven for George. Be advised that the above is just hear say that I have picked up over time. It's what I've been told but I can't confirm it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The question it self is a little contradictory. By definition any reserve suffering from age would not be a modern reserve. It's also a little hard to define a problem as strictly age related. In theory it would have to sit hermetically sealed in a plastic bag for twenty years to give a good test based strictly on age and their just are not that many canopies like that laying around. I've seen older reserves fail where their was not a clearly defined source of damage. An old safety star comes to mind. I watched Wag pop it and rip the thing from nose to tail. The fabric was bad, their was kind of a musty smell but no sign of discoloration or contamination. I've seen old military reserves fail pull test, generally on the out side gore that is constantly on the outside of the pack job. As to AD's. how about the bad finishing process on the old military reserves? It was related to a change in the manufacturing but it was some thing that showed up over an extended period of time. The fabric was perfectly good so I can't call it defective. They gave good service but they just deteriorated over time and now sixty years later are about as strong as tissue paper. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

What canopy? Not a small one. You're not going to want a small canopy. Pick one with soft opening characteristics and good flare authority. You're fall rate will never be slow so you don't want a canopy prone to hard openings. Pay attention to your packing. Particularly the line stows. You might even look into a speed bag from jump shack. Big reserve. A large PD or a large optimum. You're actually going to be over weight on most canopies. In theory it would be best to put you in a TSO-c23b container but containers are not really the fail point. Get a loose jump suit. Might even want to think swoop cords. It's old school but it works. You'll have to learn to fly them. A bike helmet actually has far better protection then any skydiving helmet. It needs to be clean and with good vision. Make sure it's not snag able from behind like under the back of your head. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

But does that veto pussy, AKA cat, and cock, AKA rooster pictures? I still haven't heard better ideas. They are the traditional hidden images in films. It's so common I've always wondered if their is some kind of advertising phycology being used by the studios? Surely their can't be that many random perverts in the editing room. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

This is not a cross wind issue. The wind tunnel with the container supported on a pylon might have been an issue but it's not relevant here. I don't know enough about the exact deployment system they are using. I couldn't tell much. It might be an inversion but I think a gore just blew out. Their are some things that can be done to keep the load at the reinforced apex. There are systems where they keep load on the Apex as it begins to inflate. They have used basically long screamers to maintain load on the apex and keep every thing under tension and even during the early part of the inflation. That's an example of a rather conventional system that might help to prevent a gore from blowing out of the side. Even better might be to control the rate of inflation and stabilize the shock wave at the mouth of the canopy so that the loading is not as erratic and you don't have high load points to begin with. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I think that this may be a slightly different problem then the wind tunnel deployment. They did have an inversion but they basically convened them selves that it was do to the horizontal deployment in the wind tunnel gravity being cross to the wind stream causing the cross wind and inversion. It's plausible but canopies can also just invert. This may be a different issue. The instability causes the canopy to waffle creating dramatic changes in it's area and big spikes and pulses in the load. I couldn't really tell much from their low res video. They may know more once they recover the high speed data from on board and have a chance to look at the remains of the canopy but frankly their wont be much left. I note that their budget is up to $230 million now. What I wouldn't give for 1% of that money for our budget. Angry face. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Well their is a long tradition of editors slipping in single frames of rather shocking images into movies. If your going to add pictures of your... cat, then I think you should also add pictures of a... rooster. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Well I recognize you as an Equipment Manufacturer. Their, close of subject. Period dot. Now call them back and tell them you are in business. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

If you keep skydiving you will sooner or later land out. Any of a number of things can cause this. A bad spot do to miss judging the winds. A long spot do to the other groups taking too long in the door. Opening high, opening low, a reserve ride, etc. How interesting it is will depend on the surrounding terrain and the decisions you make. It is not necessarily something to be freaked out about but it can add dangers to the landing. This isn't necessarily the place to be giving instruction. Sitting around the bonfire drinking beer with your instructor or more experienced jumpers is the proper and traditional setting for the imparting of knowledge to young jumpers. But I'll toss a few thoughts. Statistically landing off is one of the best ways to get hurt. It ups the odds of some thing going wrong significantly. Better to land back at the drop zone in the wide open field that you know and love with plenty of altitude to set up for a nice relaxed pattern. Start with forwards planing to make that happen. Be aware of where the airplane in relative to the drop zone and what the winds are. Look down and know where you are before you exit. Be prepared to break off early and change your opening altitude if your long. Keep in mind where you are relative to the wind line. Learn to maximize your glide and your float under canopy to bring you back to the drop zone with altitude to spare. Basic ideas. If you are flying under canopy the envelope that you can reach under canopy is basically a cone beneath you based on your glide angle. If their is wind that cone will be slanted at an angle with the base down wind of you. How much it slopes will depend on your canopy speed relative to the wind. If your canopy has the same speed as the wind turning into the wind will mean that you are coming straight down. That side of the cone will be almost vertical. If your canopy is faster then the wind there will be more angle as you penetrate. The down wind side will be shallow as the wind act with you to carry you down range. The base of the cone is not round. It's an ellipse. This is because you can slow your decent rate with breaks and float the canopy to allow the wind to carry you down range. So you can stretch your flight down wind to carry you back from a long spot. Conversely If you want to land on a target like the peas you can think of the envelope as the same cone turned upside down. with it's point on the target. Wonder out side that cone and you can't get back to the target. Things to remember. The earlier you make decisions the easier they are to implement. Keep an eye on your "Outs". The places you will plan to land if you can not make it back to the DZ. If you are coming back from a long spot they each have their own landing cone and pattern. If you can't make it back then choose one before you are hosed on it too. Don't try to make it back across an area you don't want to land in unless you know you can make it. Half way across the subdivision is not the time to realize that you can't make the field. So plan in advance. Stay aware. Make your decisions early and follow them. Know which way the wind is blowing relative to the sun. Assume every house has a power line running to it. Lines are hard to see. But if you look closely you can see poles. Every pole has a wire running to it. At night if you can see a light, it's on a pole, that pole has a wire running to it. If their are people with you land together. If you can't make the DZ land as a group not spread out all over. Cary a cell phone. Have the phone number for manifest or who ever at the DZ so you can call for a ride. Be ready with directions. Ask what the street names are on the aerial photo of the DZ and learn them so you can give directions to where you are. If some one is hurt you may be talking to 911 not a jumper and "That curvy road south of the pond" will mean nothing to the ambulance driver. I rambled more then I planed to. But I'm board. All of these things and more you will learn over time. The best thing you can do is hang at the DZ even when your not jumping. Most of what you learn will be around the fire as the old gray haired jumpers hold court and tell tails. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Well, shit is right. You said for the next two months, I'm guessing that's when the next meeting that you might make an appeal at is scheduled. Did any one point out to them that that pretty much consttutes your entire season their in England. I'm just guessing at that. All I remember of my trip their is low clouds, rain, and sleeping on the side walk in front of the train station waiting for the next boat headed for Norway. But their is a solution. Road trip. Come hang out for the summer in the US and fuck those guys. Get a job packing. Live cheep on the hanger floor. Eat Rommen off a camp stove. And spend the next two months making 100 test jumps on your canopy. While your at it start documenting your testing. Do you have the recetes from your project? Call up your suppliers and ask them for a copy and paper work from the lots on those materials. It's easier to do up front. But they keep it forever so it's their even if you didn't request it before. Start your materials tracking files. Should have done that before. It's just a file cabinet where you keep the paper they send you and a tag or stamp on the roll. It's not that hard if it's a natural part of the receiving process when UPS delivers to you. Buy one or two of those data recorders that I sent you the link to. Their not that pricey and It gives good "pretty" graphs and things to populate your records with. Passes the "Weigh Test". Paper work must out weigh the airframe before it can be certified. Not that hard since a canopy only weighs about 8 lb. Nice thick report. Hell bring it here. The people over at temple will love having you their for the summer. Look at Jerry's post. He nailed it. Send them a written formal request asking for a formal answer to each of those questions. Ask them for a written reference citing the specific regulation on each of those points. It's England so I don't know these answers. Do mains have to be TSO'd? That's a US term and their is no US TSO for mains. Ask to see the TSO that was provided for Performance Design canopies. Ask for a copy of the regulations and process to obtain this TSO. Ask for it in writing. Insured? If that's the case then obviously proof of this must have been provided to them by every manufacturer including PD. May I see that please? In writing please. And send me a copy because we would all like to know what company will right a rider on parachute equipment. BPA is not insured for home built mains. I would take exception to that. The home built part. Go file a DBA, Doing Business As, That's what we would call it here. And hang a hand painted shingle on your door. Wayper Enterprises. And add a guy giving a big raspberry to your logo. It is now your factory. You are a business. As to the other half of that statement. By extension that means that they are required to carry insurance on every manufacturer licensed to be sold in Britten. I their for require them to show proof of insurance for every canopy sold in Britten, in writing please. Notarized copies will do nicely. You are not qualified to do test jumping. This may be the case. Please produce a copy of the written regulations covering this. You may have to hire a test jumper for your development program. I'll bet I qualify. And since you are the manufacturer you decide how long phase 1 of your testing program should last and when it is successfully completed, ie. it will be successfully completed by the end of your summer trip to Texas. Once your past phase one and no longer require a cutaway rig then the regulation on who can do an intentional cutaway are moot. PD has hundreds of test jumper of all levels so that they can get feed back from jumpers all across the sport. Canopies may suddenly collapse. True. Every one. Let's see how many cases of canopy collapse we can name starting with PD. I can think of dozens in all kinds of conditions. Hand them a file an inch thick and ask them if they are going to ground all of these canopies. And please note that their are no cases of your canopies collapsing. You don't know what you are doing. Prepare a presentation on your design including all of your spread sheets, QC program, patterns, trims, reams of raw data dumps from the data recorders on your jumps over the summer on your road trip. If you really squeeze it down you can probable keep it under two hours. That's about the bladder limit on most people. Exactly how many of them have designed, built, tested, and jumped their own canopy. Please ask for a show of hands at the next meeting. Submit that these individuals are the only ones competent to vote on this issue. I would have no fear of the out come of that vote following your presentation. QC. Already covered that. Not to rub it in but I told you that you needed to keep more complete records of your designs, changes, trims, every test flight or jump, materials tracking etc. Now you're stuck kind of playing catch up. If you generate this paper along the way it's not that hard. And that data is invaluable. It's a reference for all future work. If your not keeping records then it's not testing. It's just jerking off. PD has a written report for every test jump ever made with model, version, trim, slider, break setting, altitude, delay, airspeed, what was done, and a detailed report from the jumper on every part of the jump. If you ever make it by PD ask to see the files on say the velocity. This would be easier if you had a big three ring binder full of the record of this canopy. The book of the "Gray Thing". So for most of this my point is Bureaucracy works both ways. If they want to play those games. Learn to play and beat then to death with it. Would you like to see the paper work for a launch approval through the FAA, White Sands Missile Range, and NORAD? It does out weigh the air frame. And the air frame is over 1000 lb. dry. So take the summer off, be a drop zone bum, jump the shit out of your canopy, clean up your paperwork, and come back at the end of the summer and drop a nuclear bomb of reports in their lap. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

They're building it like a traditional canopy. They're doing it that way be cause that's how it's always been done. Even the super sonic disk/gap/band parachute were really just the same technology ported over. And they've gotten away with it for the most part. Please note that their hasn't actually been that many systems deployed in comparison to all other areas. Things get weird super sonic. It becomes all about the shock waves. If you're ever seen high speed video of the shocks on these traditional canopies. it's brutal. The shock can explode upwards along the lines and then collapse again in these huge pulses causing spikes in the load. That's how these things blow up. They should be focusing on stabilizing the formation of the shock wave. This can be done but it requires fundamentally different designs. This is actually one of the things I'm trying to get my boss to patent, so forgive me if I'm a little vague. We know these guys over at JPL. I would love to see them cut a development deal with Exos but all that is above my pay grade. Their is a lot of politics involved where these groups are doing their best to keep money in house to support their existing staff. NASA used to out source a lot and we did several contracts with them but that all changed back when the shuttle shut down and it became a scramble to maintain employment. So for now they are milking this $200 M program for all it's worth just to try and keep their doors open and every one their busy. And we'll just keep on doing our own thing. But don't be surprised when you see us doing reentries with inflatables half the weight of their system. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Where is the option for the new sliding lanyard? I think it's a pretty cool addition to the system. It now actually works. Before it was kind of silly to have the double because if the left riser released it would fire the reserve while the right side was still connected. I mean the thing never really worked. But now with the new lanyard extension the system actually functions. It's now one of only two systems, the LOR system is interesting but loops are a pain, that protect you in the event of a riser hang up. The collens thing is a little different. It tries to cut away the other side but it still fires the reserve into what ever is their. You still pay the price having the RSL looped around the front of your reserve risers but that's just a training issue. If that kills you then you killed your self. And no, I didn't vote because I don't own a fucking racer. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

You should LEARN to do every thing on your rig. It will take time. Start slowly with small things. But eventually you should be ably to do all of it including getting your riggers ticket so that you can pack the reserve. Never hesitate to ask some one for help with some thing you are unsure of. No one will ever make fun of you for that. Learning about your equipment is a fundamental part of this sport and people will be happy to help you along that road. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

They're building it wrong. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I wonder if the housing was rough on the inside? Housings look all smooth and shiny on the out side. The truth is that they are just bent coiled sheet metal. All the sharp edges are turned inwards. Depending on how they are made I've heard concerns about sharp edges on the inside of the spiral. If you think about it a steal cable is pretty hard and smooth and stiff. It will just kind of ride over that sharp edge. Maybe even polish it down. On the other hand a spectra line, which is supposed to have a very low friction, is soft. A sharp edge would dig into it and scrape, and drag, and eventually tear. So all this shit about spectra being slick and smooth and an easier pull, it really does have a lower coefficient of friction, may be a lot of bull shit when it tries to ride over a rough surface like the in side of a poorly made housing. Make me wonder what might happen over time with that particular rig. This my be a sign of a bigger problem. If that rigs still around, just for shits and grins you might take a nice peace of spectra, uncoated if you have it, Put the rig on some one to get a good curve, and saw the line back and forth through the housing. See how it wears in comparison to another rig. I wonder if you will see and fraying with a little effort. Or I wonder if you could push a patch of some thing through their, Some thing really snaggy... I good example is not coming to mind but some thing with a lot of loos looped fibers that would catch on any rough spots. Even if you had to make it by cutting some fibers in a patch of F-111 to create runs. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

That's a new one. Never seen that before. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Don't have any numbers. I doubt that their is a strength issue but on some hard ware the geometry is less favorable. It can slip much easier. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It's a security parachute but is it a SAC. For example I don't think the SAC had type 2 lines. They made a lot of canopies but I don't think the SAC, Super Aero Conical, was TSO'd with out a diaper like some of the others. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Don't sweat the only woman on the drop zone thing. You've got it all wrong. Skydiving is on average, it varies from drop zone to drop zone, 85% male, 14% female, and theirs a last 1% that's hard to classify. This is not some thing to be intimidated by. You're looking at it all wrong. A vagina is a precious commodity. And on a drop zone it's as rare as gold. Competition for a female is intense. It's a simple fact that their are far more men on a drop zone then women. You're not out numbered, you're the grand prize that is competed for by all the men on the drop zone. You are by definition a queen and they but commoners vieing for your favor. I'm not joking. Even a rather plane looking woman's stock goes up two full points on a scale of ten the moment she walks onto a drop zone. It goes up another when she puts a rig on. At that point a very mediocre 6 suddenly finds that she has become a 9. If you ever, ever have any problems with a man at a drop zone becoming too... frisky, do the following. Step up on top of a table in the middle of a crowded room. Call for their attention in the traditional manner. Raise your arm and point at the offender as if he is about to be struck down by the gods, which is very close to what is about to occur, and announce in a loud clear voice that this person is annoying you. Then watch as twenty knights in shining armor come charging to your rescue and the creation who has had the audacity to offend your person is dragged from the room by the mob. You need do nothing more. They will straiten his shit out. Your safety, at least in that since, is not some thing you need worry about at a drop zone. But it becomes a problem in other ways. Female students have a lot of trouble on drop zones. And you're already seeing it. It's happening right now. Have you noticed how... nice every one is being to you on here. Read some of the other threads to see how much shit people are normally given on this board. It's already started and it will get worse. You're going to have skydivers following you around like little puppies fawning over you. It may be a huge ego boost but it's not the best learning environment. I could say put your trust in your instructors, and there are some very good professional ones. But some times they are the worst on the drop zone. You have to realize that one of the primary reasons to get your instructor rating is so you can get the first crack at any female that show up on the DZ. Try to find a female instructor. Find the other women at the drop zone. They are very protective sisterhood and will help guide you. And most of all learn to say NO. NO I am not ready to do a four way. NO I am not ready to do a twenty way, not even in the base. NO I am not ready to learn to free fly. Go ask around on the Women forum about this. They wont polish your ego as much but they've all been where you are now, and will be more honest with you. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

SAC... as i recall the normal configuration had an Ashudo/phantom style diaper. That is what was packed into the Security 360. For the sport market they built a choker style diaper but i think it was a three stow full stow diaper. I don't think I've ever seen a two stow/half stow diaper on one. Maybe it was a very early version. Any one with a better memory recall? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Man you're posting a lot. You must really be board with all this rain. But hay look on the bright side. My house is a lake view again and the hills are all green.

So I looked at your profile and their's a picture of the two of you in tandem harnesses. Tandems are notorious for making people sick at their stomic. I think their is probable more then one reason. I've heard that part of it is the way the passenger hangs in the harness. It's like you're on the out side of the turning radius. The tandem harnesses are also far less comfortable. They tend to cut into your legs and cut off the circulation. The newer ones are better but the problem is still their. This is known to cause nausea and has even caused people to pass out. On top of all this is the fact that some one else is flying. Theirs some thing about the disconnect between your motion and your lack of action. It sounds strange but if you're the one flying and you control the motion and the turns it doesn't bother you nearly as much. You're more focused on the flight of the canopy, you're looking into the direction of the turn, etc. Motion sickness is caused by the disagreement between your inner ear and your vision. When you control the motion or are focused on the motion, eg. looking at the horizon on a boat, then what your ear feels is synced up with what you see. So being the driver in a car or taking the wheel of a sail boat or in this case flying the canopy your self really helps to keep these sensory inputs locked together and you are not as prone to getting sick. If he gives AFF a try I think he will have less trouble. Small planes will be interesting. If his AFF group is last out and he can set in the right seat on the ride up that will help a lot. This could be more of an issue as the summer get's warmer so get him broken in now before it get's really thermally. A couple of other thoughts. Do you love your boyfriend? Are you attached to him? Is he a keeper? If the answers to these questions are yes you are going to need to address this situation. It's very hard for one member of a couple to be a skydiver. It just doesn't work well and it will only get worse. You're only at the beginning. It's a small subculture and it will suck you in. Soon you will be spending all your spare time their. You will lose touch with all your wofo friends. What is a wofo? You will learn the meaning of the word when you're setting at the lunch table at work and start gushing about how you met these three guys over the weekend and did this awesome four way with them, and how you sweet talked another dude into videoing it. Do you want to see? That's about when your supervisor will drop his lunch tray and one coworker will fall over backwards in his chair and your friend will spew coffee all over her shirt. And you'll be like, "What?" Learn the hinlic maneuver. Bottom line is that if you try to go through this with out your boyfriend you will catch AIDS. Airport Induced Divorce Syndrome. Your life will fundamentally change. If he does not go through the same evolution the odds of him being able to handle the situation are slim. It's 85% male with lot's of testosterone and it's a tight knit community. It's going to freak him out when you suddenly acquire around 300 brothers and sisters who you will become even closer to then you are with him. Few males have a strong enough ego to deal with that. And for the record, we're cool with it how ever it turn out. Bring him along for the ride and we've got yet another playmate. Or dump his loser wofo ass and come hang with us at the drop zone. Their is always room for an new attractive young freshly single female on the drop zone. Cue the wolf whistles. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Hold on. maybe I'm the one that's confused. I thought we were talking about a National Phantom that you owned. Is your canopy a Pioneer? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

He asked if it was a narrow/tight diaper. you responded that it was a "full stow diaper, not a two stow diaper". It appeared that you were not familiar with the fact that they changed diaper designs and retrofitted the older wider diapers with a tighter narrower trapezoidal diaper. It is an important issue. The load of the lines and diaper during extraction can act on that radial seam over the top of the crown to pull the opposite radial seam out of the diaper out of sequence. Their was a death that appeared to be the result of that on a high speed deployment. So even with the tighter diaper I'm not sure the problem is totally gone. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com