RiggerLee

There at about 7:00 where you say, "That's new." It looks like you took it right to the edge of a stall and then let one toggle up. Or took it to the edge and then let up and imedently buried the left toggle. Basically what happened is the right side started to surge forwards and the left started to stall and back slide. If you had continued to hold it or maybe pushed it a bit lower that side of the canopy would have stalled out and started to slide backwards as the other started to fly. The canopy would have rotated over you head in basically a flat spin. You can do this with almost any canopy. Depending on a lot of things, including line length, how stable it is in a stall, AR, how the break lines are spaced, etc. It can be any thing from a fairly stable state to quite a wild oscillating ride. It's a good way to put your self in major line twist. To recover bring the right toggle down and slow the advancing side and then double clutch the left stalled side. Be ready for a big surge as the canopy tries to dive and start flying forward again. I think things like this are a lot of fun. And as long as you're ready for what's coming, including the possibility of line twist, a spinning canopy barber poled with one control line locked down, and possible even a cutaway, you can have a lot of fun playing with your canopy like this. Just to be clear I'm not discouraging you. In fact at some point you might want to see how it behaves in this state. It's not a normal flight mode but it can happen if you over control the canopy during or just after opening with a rear riser and too deep of a break setting. Or in really deep toggle turns where you have a high G loading. If the guy has really long arms some times he can stall out that side of the canopy and experience a G induced stall. It usually winds up in line twist with him spinning on his back. Thing is it can be hard to test fore. Part of it seems to be how tall the guy is and line length of that size canopy. Some times it can be more violent depending on how the dynamics work out. What I saw there seemed pretty docile. Don't be afraid of this, just be ready. Not really a sniveler but every thing else that I saw seems really well behaved. Seems to have a little higher angle of attack in the center then at the ends. Based on what the nose looked like. Maybe you could go just a bit wider on the panels at the front of the canopy. I'd tilt the axis that you're rotating it around down just a bit when you create the panels. The lip on the nose is a bit wrinkly. It looks like it's just bent straight over. You know that the unloaded rib is going to want to drift upwards. You might put just a bit of angle in the out side edge of the panel at the lip to allow that to happen. You might think that by keeping it square you're holding it down but what little you get is only at the lip and I think you are just distorting it and pulling down the leading edge of your nose at the unloaded rib. Looks like a canopy. Flies like a canopy. Seems to land very nicely. I think you should be fucking proud of that thing. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Actually Quarter bags are quite common, at least around here. Their seem to be BA-22's all over the place. Their just seem to be a lot of war birds around. Cavanagh Flight Museum seem to have a scores of them. And oddly enough some times you seem to be able to find new ones. A few years ago John Storrie some how scored like a whole container of them. It was a big crate packed full of like a dozen of them, BA-22's, wrapped in plastic brand new, never seen service. Theirs shit out there. Tom found an MC-4 intact. So in some way or other rigs do from time to time escape the military with out being demilled. I don't know by what route this occurs but it does seem to happen on occasion. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I think it's important to keep in perspective how these canopies were being deployed. You talk about jumps by the military. I'm assuming that these were direct bag static line deployments. Keep in mind that in that case the canopy is being stretched out in a big U cross ways to the wind as the body falls away till the break cord snaps. This is fundamentally different from a PC deployment with the canopy being deployed in line with the relative wind. How resistant the canopy is to some degree depends on the design. Longer canopies are harder to fully invert. And it stands to reason that a higher airspeed would be much more aggressive at trying to invert them. Static line canopies need an anti inversion net. I'm not convinced that a diaper deployed reserve needs one. A good diaper, full stow or three stow, diaper does a very good job of deploying the canopy. Their can be issues with asymmetry but that is also true to some degree with squares. Mary Ann had a big old friction knot on her reserve and I always suspected that it was relater to an unstable deployment after a spinning cutaway. Think of all the issues we've seen on main deployments from "bad body position". Granted on a 240+ canopy they probable would not be catastrophic. On the other hand the relatively minor partial inversions that clear and leave a few small burns low on the gore, the worst that you might expect with a diaper, are hardly noticeable. Strength. I'd put a quarter bag deployed C9 up against any thing on the planet. The only way you can beat that would be if you put a reafing line on it. The body may be torn a sunder and fall from the harness in peace's but the canopy will not fail. The truth is that all square skydiving reserves are not really designed to operate above normal terminal velocity. Don't know about the aviator. We don't really test them that fast. Not in comparison to the military canopies. I think it's really irresponsible to put some of these canopies in some of the faster planes. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm confused. Four inches on the rears? You put one extra rapid link on each rear riser right? That's about an inch and a quarter of built in front riser. That should be a comfortable subtle change. You didn't put four links on each riser did you? You might go as far as to try two on a canopy of that size but beyond that you might want to do at least a little tweaking of the other lines to smooth out the cord. Sharp stalls, bad break response and lack of flair authority do sound like it's too flat. Could you clarify what you're trying on it? Don't give up. This is the fun stuff. If you don't want to play with it toss it in UPS and I'll take a crack at it. Lee Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

As to how common they are I would guess 1%-2%. Mostly jump pilots or skydivers. I think it's a great concept if it's a skydiver. I've never encouraged a non jumper to buy one. Pep rarely get replaced. Not until you make them replace it. So they are all old tech. And then generally they are looking for the cheapest possible option. I've never had some one ask me what the best system was. What's the cheapest? What will fit the plane? Will it be lumpy like this one? But never what the best system is or even will it work at their airspeed and weight. Using it is the last thing on their mind. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

you can make it last longer is you tape the edge of the patern with aluminum tape. You can get it at the hardware store. It's for air ducts or some thing. Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Don't give up on orange. Try what I suggested above. Slap a couple of rapped links on the rear risers. It's basically about an inch of built in front riser. No big deal. We do it all the time. You don't have to make a big production out of retrimming the whole thing. If you like it you can tweak it a bit as I described by shrinking the A and C lines with a little splice of line. No sewing necessary. Tips for landing a flat canopy with out busting your ass... Flat canopies are a pain. They tend to lack flare authority and can stall out on you hard. Steeper trims are actually more forgiving and safer to play with. Never the less a lot of CRW canopies have been trimmed very flat, Scary flat. Landing them can suck. The trick is to flare them with the front risers. You make your approach to landing frontrisering the canopy. Maybe with a bit of a turn, it's a bit early for that here. Point is that you're artificially steepening the trim. You actually flair by letting off of the front risers and gentile with the breaks. Don't stall it. On a really flat canopy the breaks are not to flair the canopy, just to help you slow down a bit. This isn't a small, heavily loaded, high performance CRW canopy. You probable won't be able to surf it in, but you get the idea. If it's too flat to land make the trim steeper manually and let the canopy do most of the flare by it self as you let off on the front risers. This assumes that it shows good front riser stability. You should have a grasp on that by now. Final is not the place to learn that the nose rolls. Try changing the break lines on the gray thing as well. It might make the turns a bit smoother, less brakey. Glad you're having fun. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It says "Sold Out!" What the fuck? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Interesting. As I read it all three of those requirements are necessary to be considered a "Recognized Manufacturer". The catch all seems to be the "Riggers with the necessary qualifications" statement. I wonder what that means. What exactly is an Advanced Rigger? Like a Master rigger? Is this something that permits them to design and build equipment? It sounds like you just need to find one that's interested in your project and get him to sign off on the testing of your designs. If they're any thing like riggers here I would think that they would find this cool and want to jump the damn things. I'd sign it off just to get the chance to jump it. If I'm reading this correctly I think they are shooting them selves in the foot over the insurance thing. In essence they just made all gear illegal. Unless they are just saying that any rigger from any country can build gear. In which case would you like me to write you a letter approving your gear? Of course I'd have to examine and test jump the canopies... Just to make sure that they are airworthy you understand. But I don't see that argument flying. This could be a problem for a lot of people. If British lawyers are any thing like the ones in the US, the next time some one goes in they will drag that in to a court raging about unapproved gear, lack of insurance, and unrecognized manufacturers. It will be like a bomb going off and the DZ, pilot, rigger, every one will be caught in it. You're English, What did you call it... the blitz? Remember that shit? I'll bet there are still holes in your country. It will be like that. Every rig. every canopy, every jump, is now illegal. On to more fun things... How are the turns on the Gray thing now? Your test jumper said he thought they were weird. Did you try moving the break lines out one half cell? I'm wondering if it might help your stability on opening as well. My thought. If you move it out like that I'm wondering if you'll get the center of the canopy flying a bit sooner. Get it leaned forward and the flow attached to the center of the canopy earlier in the opening. Might make it a bit more stable? Of course that's straight out of my ass. Might do the opposite. Don't know. Play with it. Play with the break setting. Orange... Sounds like your too flat. Could be several things. If your rib is a different shape it might have a slightly different CP making it fly flatter then the PD7. A difference in the cascade changes that hinge point which could cause a little dimple in the canopy. The cord trying to bend into an S shape. But I think it's a bigger problem then that. I think it needs a little steeper trim. Down and dirty first thing to try. Put n extra rapid link in the rear risers. Let the toggles out on the break line as well. It's crude but we do it all the time with crw canopies. See if it flies a little better. Next step figure trap a bit of line into the A lines and C lines. You can shrink the lines that way. For Dacron it's about an inch per foot of line you figure trap in. leave a little bit hanging out on the bottom so you can pull it out easy. between an extra link in the back and a few inches of figure trap in the A and C lines you can tweak the canopy very nicely right on the packing floor. Have Fid will travel, the riggers creedo. I think you can make it work if you play with it. Keep notes. Yellow. Welcome to design. Start tinkering. Start by playing with the break setting. You can also play with swapping out sliders. See if you can borrow a slightly larger one. I don't like to go wider then the center cell on the grommet spacing. You don't want the grommets being pushed farther down the line before the slider is pulled down off the bottom skin. Like when you pack it. If you press down in the tape at the front of the slider. The slider should take the load not the leading edge of the bottom skin of the canopy. Sliders can be too wide. Check that as well. It's center cell width and stabilizer length. that determine how wide it can be. How long are your stabs? If they are well below the A line attachment you might conceder shortening them. If you can find a sewing machine, peel them loose and push them up an inch. Your stab will flutter more but no big deal. It will give the slider more mechanical advantage at the start of the opening. Look at the Spector. They do that. It's up real tight, nice slow openings. PD reserve, long stabs, fast opening. The slider must be dominant over the canopy at the start of the openings. Don't take a longer delay till you sort this out. Keep notes. Keep us posted. Post pictures and vid. Where's the fucking vid? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Humidity helps. If it's really dry, like in winter, I'm not opposed to spritzing it with a spray bottle of clean water. Lay it down on it's side and try to get all the wrinkles out so it's laying as flat as possible and leave it that way over night. Or pack it to a... long fold. The point before you start to narrow and fold it. At that point you can drag out any big heavy books or manuals you have and press it. My old Bachman books worked great for this. Leave it over night. Ultimately one or two really nice clean repacks will generally retrain the canopy and fix the problem. That's why I always like to follow my own pack jobs. At one point we talked about charging an extra fee to follow pack jobs from out side the loft. I guess we would have phrased it as a discount for return customers, but you get the point. I have seen a couple of canopies that seemed to be damaged permanently. I don't know what it was. They may have been stored in the hot trunk of a car in Texas. But the wrinkles were terrible. The pack volume must have gone up by 15% or more. It was a tight rig to begun with. After that we just couldn't pack it. She had to buy a new reserve. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Only as long as it needs to be. The geometry of the flaps and the location of the handle pretty much determine the length. That plus enough slack so that it can tuck away. You try to keep it as short as possible so you can pull the PC out of your burble and into the wind. At the same time you need enough slack to insure that you can pull the pin. It usually involves some kind of floating lanyard running through a grommet. What's important is that between the lanyard and your packing that you have enough travel to insure that you will be able to pull the pin every time. You can sew a little fold or stopper in the lanyard beyond that to limit the travel if you have a really long handle, but you must be able to pull it. Struggle, struggle, thump. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Wamore has done some small ram air guidance systems. They did some really small ones in about the same range. In the end they wound up with a single spool, single stepping motor. They've tried it a number of ways. some of their motors are geared so they can just set the breaks with the motor. Some times the breaks are set and the motor pulls a light weight line that has an eyelet that loops over a yellow cable on the riser and pulls it out of the loop on a two ring, how we do it. But their smallest as I said uses a single motor. The break line runs from one side, down one full time around the spindle, and back up to the other side. It opens and flys in about 1/4 breaks. To turn the motor turns a bit one way, lets out one side pulls in the other. To fly straight it goes back to center. Simplest light system they've come up with. No real flare. Cutters are $$$ Some people use a heated wire to cut a loop of micro line to release their drogue. So they have a dowel or some thing wrapped in wire. A loop of micro line loops around it and a loop on the drogue, think slink, wire heats and cuts through the loop. Cheaper. Sounds really cool. Great project. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Air on Mars is pretty thin. I have a hard time imagining landing a canopy their. It's a shame because wing suiting the Valley could be really cool. I wonder how fast you could fly? Would the wing suit be super sonic? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It might not kill you to get your riggers ticket. I think you would enjoy it. Thought, How does your country feel about FAA Riggers tickets? You can do a shake and bake riggers course here in the US in about 10 days. It's not easy. I'm not a fan of that, but it does get you a widely respected riggers ticket. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I had one for a long time. I loaned it to some one and I don't think they ever sent it back. Here's what I remember. It's got a lot of venting in the top of the canopy. You can sink it hard. Real hard. Not some think you want to be out of speck. Make sure the control lines are long enough. The weird line that it's made with stretches. They get out of trim. Then it's like they're in partial breaks and it picks up a lot of decent in breaks. I had to let out my control and pulled in my center line a bit. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Seriously, ever thought about moving to America? When you fly to California just don't get on the return flight. Two words, Sanctuary City. You can not be deported. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

To the best of my knowledge, please feel free to correct me, their is only one manufacturer with an aero space engineering degree. Manley Butler of Butler parachutes actually went out and got his degree. My understanding is that he actually did his thesis on parachutes. Or at least that's how the story goes. He is actually a doctor of parachutes. I'm glad that they have finely established an actual definition of what qualifies as a Recognized Manufacturer. It is their right and I think we should ALL support it. Their for I am calling on all Manufacturers, Dealers, Dropzones, and jumpers to obey this guide line. I am calling on all manufacturers who do not hold an aerospace engineering degree in parachutes to cease all shipment of their products to the UK. All manufacturers not caring liability insurance in the UK must stop all sales at once. I am calling for all drop zones their to ground all equipment not built by a recognized insured manufacturer. Starting with every Vector built by the UNINSURED RELITIVE WORK SHOP. Lets see how long this last when people start getting calls cancelling their orders for next season. If we all have the balls to stand up to this we can fight this. Why should they? Why should Bill Booth give a shit about you? Or John LeBlanc? If any thing you might one day be a competitor to them. I don't think you're much of a threat. But once upon a time, they were you. Thirty years ago Bill Cole was setting in his spare bedroom sewing canopies just like you. And I can't imagine them wanting to see you squished under some buricratic heel. They've come a long way since then. In truth if they were to look at any of this, and your designs they would probably laugh, but I like to think that it would be a good hearted chuckle. But this is growing beyond you. This is reaching the point that it could actually start to affect them. This is getting real. I'm not saying that any one their is going to turn some one away from a plane tomorrow because they have a vector 3 on their back but what happens when they go in. This rule is now or soon will be in writing. That rig is built by an unrecognized uninsured manufacture. What happens when a lawyer, or barrister, or what ever you have over there gets a hold of that and starts pulling on that thread. The gear is illegal. The jump's illegal. The drop zone just allowed illegal unapproved gear to be jumped. The pilot just dropped a jumper with illegal unapproved gear to jump from his plane. What about the rigger that packs gear from an unrecognized uninsured manufacturer? Knowingly doing so might seen to constitute gross negligence which could jepredise any waver that was signed. I don't know how things work there but this doesn't sound like a good thing to me. I don't think this is well thought out. I think they are putting their head in an even bigger noose to no good end. Seriously, Leblanc, Cole, Booth, George, Sandy? Any of you guys looking at this? Do any of you carry liability insurance in the UK? This is leaning towards making you gear illegal in the UK unless you carry insurance. This poor guy may never be more then a curiosity but this is starting to have implications. I really think you might want to start making phone calls. I know that there is a strategy of wanting you gear to be just slightly illegal in hope that if their ever is a trial you can point to it and try to lay the blame on some one else but I don't agree with this type of defense. I think it's cowardly. And I think it could hurt a lot of people and ultimately hurt you. I think we need stand behind this guy. Not just because what he is doing is cool but because of what this might mean for the future. Big precedents can be set in small cases. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on this little incident but not really a cool thing to post. I thought all the tapes had been erased. The FAA isn't exactly cool about things like that. That door being wide open is totally illegal. I don't care what the military did in WWII. That configuration is not approved for good reason. It's too big a hole to fly if you lose the starboard engine. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

How did you wind up building your lip? How big relative to the nose? What does the inflation look like on it between full flight and breaks? How much dimple? Pictures from kiteing it of the nose? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Don't leave us hanging. Tell us about this Yellow thing. Trying to read the label, ZP 210? Is it all ZP? What kind of fabric is it? Is it a silicone slippery as shit like PD? How did the seaming go? Any changes to seam design? Is it the same design or is it a new airfoil and trim? You said that it flew like a saber? One or Two? Dose this mean that you've gone with a steeper trim? I was under the impression that up to now most of your canopies were more or less based on the PD nine cell which was rather flat in comparison. Glad to here that you're going to get to do some more testing. It's actually kind of silly to ground launch them rather then to jump them from a plane. Even with out a cutaway rig you're still better off from a plane. At least you have some kind of option and altitude to use it. Choices which don't exist off a low hill. You might point that out to some of these ass hats that you're dealing with. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

We were doing a bunch of pull testing when we were trying to build a heavy single point release. Interestingly we found a peace of bad hardware. It was a RW-9 ring. Think big fat heavy base three ring. Tandem ring on steroids. They were pulling consistently to over 17,000 lb. But this one we found broke, snapped, at... trying to remember, but it was like 6,000 lb. I want to say that it was about a third of the normal breaking point. Actually I take that back. I may be confusing it with another failure. That peace may have failed even lower at like 3,500 lb. It was interesting you could see a clear discoloration on the fracture face implying an internal fracture. It was a FC forge craft peace. I was talking to the guys at Borden at PIA about it. They actually took the time to come up to my room to look at it. When they took over the contract to forge that part they through out all the old tooling as too worn and started again. They were able to instantly diagnose it as a manufacturing flaw. We talked about what could be done to detect some thing like this and what they told me is that after it was plated their wasn't really any way to detect such a flaw. You just have to build it right in the first place. In the end we just proof tested all the hardware. The failure point of this peace was way below a "healthy" peace so proof loading them was not a problem. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

That's it. It was a pretty big problem even then. To the point that he did the math and it mad since to drop the bucks to make a new ring. That's actually a lot of money to set up the tools for the forging. The industry has grown a lot since then. I wonder how many rigs will ultimately be affected by this. It might be time to dust off those old dies. But if they are using those rings else where in the harness Like the hip rings then it's even more interesting. It could mean building whole new harnesses. It's actually easier to start from scratch then trying to salvage the main lift web and leg webbing. Keep in mind we really don't know any thing yet. I don't think they know any thing yet. If this really goes south it could sink them. It will be interesting to see what they do. Will they man up and face it or pull the cutaway handle and declare bankruptcy? Time to learn about their real character. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

As to whether it is fixable... Remember when Booth had a hard wear problem. His answer was the bolt in ring. It would be a pain to replace them. It's almost a rebuild on the whole harness and unless they authorize some one else to do it, it will be a long way to ship the rig. Depending on how the rig is configured you might as well replace all the webbing rather then sewing through it again. If they gear up and pre make some of the parts they could do it pretty easy. But Booth bit the bullet and made a new ring rather then deal with it. Hay, you could upgrade to large rings! On another note. I've got mixed feelings about some of these over seas companies. It's cool that their are more players and that the industry is growing. What bothers me is that it's not growing here. How many people are their left in the US that make hard ware? Borden. Who makes webbing other then Bally? Who makes fabric other then Performance and they just got bought by some one. It seems to be working but... What does it say about industry here in the US. Do you realize what it's like trying to hire a seamstress. You'd better be ready to train her your self. The only one I could find that had any experience was 70. And forget finding a good mechanic. What I'm saying is that the industry it self is not really healthy. To be clear, I'm not saying that their are any problems in it. The guys at Borden are awesome. Louis that sell me my webbing at Bally is a god send. And Performance was easy to deal with. But manufacturing in this country is in decline and it's hurting us. Their isn't a sewing industry any more. And it's hard for us to exist in a vacuum. So think about things like this ring the next time some one tries to seduce you into buying webbing out of china or hard wear from Korea. It may be a little more expensive but it may be worth it to deal with the company that's been doing this forever. And support your local suppliers otherwise you really wont have them some day. And any time you take a deal on some thing cheep from the other side of the world think about what it could cost you. I wonder how many harnesses they will have to rebuild? Could be just this one. Or it could bankrupt them. I learned a long time ago not to fuck around. Buy the best shit you can, right from the source. That's why I get my webbing from Bally, not on Ebay. End of rant. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Cool. ee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Must be some thing in the water. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com