alan

Mary (Skyrose7) E-mail me if you do not know the answers to the last questions I asked, or if you have any doubt about what you may have been told. Keep learning, it is how you stay alive in this sport. alan

It's OK Andy, but my concern was not with you keeping the answer simple, that is a good idea, but with the fact that it contained wrong/innaccurate information. Somebody says, my Spectre takes 1200 feet to open, some newby hears that and pretty soon, theirs takes 1200' to open. Pretty soon, just about everybodies Spectre takes 1200' to open. I have never meant any of this as a personal attack on you or Skyrose7. I just want to see, ultimately, accurate information presented here. Take care. alan

You won't, but that is kinda my point. I was really addressing my frustration over an instructional system that allows a skydiver to progress to the point where they are making decisions about gear purchases and have not been adequately informed. But, you have to assume your share of the responsibility because it is you that is going to jump out of the airplane. From your posts, I think it is safe to assume you are a recent grad and maybe even have a new "A" license. Why did you wait until now to become curious about an AAD? Hasn't one been a part of your gear through your training? You state that since your gear came w/o one, you now have to buy one? How can you tell, you don't know enough about them to make an informed decision. Sure, your JM, I, S&TA, DZO, or just a mentor at your DZ should have taught you something like this before now, but hell, don't you hang around the DZ and talk to other jumpers? I don't mean to give you heat here, I'm just frustrated at the brand of "gas and go" skydivers we have been creating ever since USPA decided that skydiving was "Mainstream not Extreme". It was before your time, but you may ultimately pay the price for it......with your life. So, ask questions now. Lot's of them.....and Skyrose7, I'm not talking just to you, but to all of the other newer jumpers out there who are in your shoes. Search through this website, it contains a wealth of information in the form or articles written by trusted and reliable people in the sport........and it will be just a beginning. So, you arrive at the DZ and do a gear check, turn your Cypres on and watch it count down to zero. You dirt dive with your friends and manifest. You get on the plane and climb to 1400', smoke fills the cabin and you hear the pilot telling everyone to get out NOW! Will the fact that you have a Cypres affect your emergency procedures? If so, how? If not, why not? Does your rig have an RSL? What is its' intended function? What is it designed to do/not do, as opposed to a Cypres? Want to hear something really scary? For each one of the questions I asked above, I know of a skydiver who died because he/she made a jump and didn't know the answer. It only takes one jump. I apologize if I have seemed a little rough on you......it is because I care. alan

Spectra lines are sensitive to heat and it causes them to shrink. The heat generated by the friction from the slider grommets as the slider comes down causes the most shrinkage where there is the most contact, meaning the outboard "A" and "D" lines and the brakelines as Bill has suggested. It usually takes about 300 or so jumps before they shrink out of tolerance, and it usually happens slowly over time, so you don't notice it all at once, but as Bill suggested, check you slider grommets. If they are rough, they could cause a rapid change. The sun would have relatively little effect on them. Also, while you are checking the inside of the top of the ribs near the center, check to see if there are any tears in the ribs from crossport to crossport. alan

This is a little scary. I don't mean to pick on you Andy or Skyrose7, but I continue to be amazed at how poorly most jumpers are educated about AADs and yet how much they are used and even relied on. Yes, they are a valuable safety device, when used properly by an informed jumper who has been properly educated on their use. They even have a great track record with those folks who never bother to learn much more than how to turn it on and off, but they can be and have been a factor in injuries and deaths. Folks, please read the owner's manual. Understand it. Ask questions. Know the design parameters and how it works. For example, the Expert CYPRES is designed to fire at approximately 750' AGL if the vertical rate of decent exceeds _78 mph_, not terminal velocity, which can vary but is generally accepted as 120 mph in a stable, belly to earth attitude. I don't know of any AAD currently in common use here in the US that needs a rate of decent at terminal velocity to fire. Just to get those of you reading this into the learning mode: The Cypres can be "fooled" into firing much higher than the stated design parameter of ~750' AGL. How high can it fire? How can you "fool" it? Hint: The answers are in SSKs website. alan

My guess is that you can turn the Astra off once you are under canopy, so if you have a hp canopy and are doing hp landings where you have some doubt about an AAD fire, you can have the benefit of the AAD for the jump w/o the risk of an unwanted fire under canopy. Just a guess, not an opinion on the merit of his statement. alan

Fair enough, maybe the problem is in how we define "addressed properly" or how much effort you have put into looking. There are at least 3 different articles on the topic here in this website alone in the Gear Articles section. Rec.skydiving has had numerous threads with both pros and cons and it has been addressed in Parachutist a time or two in the last few years. The bottom line is pretty much as USPA (Paul) said in his reply. There is no right or wrong answer. You have to make the best choice for you. But, since it is an important issue and your desire for more information seems sincere, I'll share my thoughts on the topic. There is a risk involved in using an RSL with a hp elliptical at higher wingloadings. No surprise there. During a violent, spinning mal, you most likely will have an unstable reserve deployment. The popular fear here is that an unstable reserve deployment increases the chances of a malfunction of the reserve parachute. So, does this justify not using an RSL with a hp ellitical? I don't know. Keep in mind that as students, most of us learn that poor or unstable body position during deployment is one of the leading causes (contributing factors) of malfunctioning mains. From that we make a leap of logic that it will be true of the reserve as well. I'm not convinced the facts support that. Reserves and mains are not designed the same. For example, the reserve uses a freebag which is designed to allow the canopy to deploy even if the pc or bridle entangle with the unstable jumper. Another example is the speed at which the canopy is designed/packed to deploy. The reserve is designed to fully deploy in less than 3 seconds flat, whereas if your main consistently did that, you would be unhappy. Why is that important? It is up and gone/inflated before you can entangle in it or less time is allowed for line twists to develop during the deployment sequence. My point is that the reserve is _designed_ to open under the assumption that you _will_ be unstable and/or spinning during and after the cutaway. History has shown us there is a risk that cutting away from a violently spinning, malfunctioned, hp elliptical main can result in a malfunctioned reserve with resulting death or severe injury, but that the odds are that it will more often save the jumpers life. You can review the fatality reports to confirm this, although there are those out there who can interpret them differently, depending on what position you are taking. My position is, it is your life, _you _ decide how you wish to interpret the fatality reports. Some other things to consider. In my opinion/experience, one reason some of these malfunctions get so violent is that people often wait too long to deal with them......they let the spin develop while they make decisions or try to fix something that can't be fixed. Be current and have your shit together. I experienced a mal under a VX @ ~2.4 at the time. The RSL was a non-factor. But, change any one of a number of elements, and it could have contributed to saving or killing me, depending on what element of the situation was changed. The locking loop on my right riser three ring release failed (it had only been hot glued under the confluence wrap, not bartacked) as the canopy was coming out of the d-bag. If it had been the left one, the RSL would have deployed my reserve into my still attached and badly malfunctioning main. My cutaway was difficult because of all of the forces being transferred to one set of three rings and the almost immediate, violent spin. (My right riser slingshotted up _through_ my canopy.) It was obvious from the beginning that this was not a fixable situation and I never tried, just went for my handles. It was so bad, so fast, I had to use two hands to cutaway. What if I had opened a few hundred feet lower? What if I had delayed in attempting my cutaway? There are a lot of "what ifs". Bottom line, I was spinning and unstable as my reserve deployed. It opened cleanly and on heading with only about 3/4 of a line twist as I recall. An 89 VX at 2.4 with a catastrophic riser failure during deployment. Hmmmm, I wonder how much worse it can get for violent spinning mals? So, is it my position that you should use an RSL under your Stiletto? No. It is my position that you should know your equipment and make your own choices. I included my anecdote simply to demonstrate that there is some truth to an old saying many of us have heard at one time or another. "You can do everything right and still die." Most of the "experts" giving you advice at the DZ are generally, and in my opinion, more like "parrots". They just repeat what they have heard and don't take the time to really learn or even just think about what they have heard. Be careful who you listen to, both on the pro and con side. There are some very respected parrots out there. Keep the student mindset.......THINK and keep learning. Are there any areas about RSL use that are pretty universally agreed upon? Maybe. Most of us agree that RSL use with a video helmet/camera is not recommended. An RSL is not recommended during CRW. Skysurfers usually recommend against using an RSL during that activity. On a windy day, you can disconnect it once you are under a good canopy, although there may be other, bigger issues in this case. BSRs require them for students. The RSL will deploy your reserve faster than even the best of the yank, yank people. You can't and shouldn't depend on it. It is better to land under a reserve with line twists than under one at line stretch. In the event of a low cutaway, they are more likely to save you than kill you, even under an elliptical. They can be and have been a contributing factor in fatalities. Can you think of others? It is about risk management and how accurately you are able to assess _your_ risk exposure and make a cost/benefit analysis. OK, so what you were trying to say is that you are more likely to experience an RSL deployed reserve while still spinning after a cutaway from a spinning elliptical mal ( with the implication of increased probability of a reserve mal) than you are to cutaway and not pull your reserve handle or pull it in time. Sounds fair enough. Fair enough as well. Just a few questions though. How often do you disassemble, inspect, and maintain your cutaway system? How current do you stay? How many mals have you had? Has anyone ever unexpectedly opened "too" near you? Have you ever had to open a little low because someone was unexpectedly above you at wave off? There is no need to answer any of these. I just asked them to get you to think a little more about the "it can't happen to me" attiude your statement implied. Be well and be safe. If this has sounded a tough on you, well, just chalk it up to tough love. alan

Plenty, it is just that people have become weary of typing them every few months when this comes up. USPA and ROOtjOOse have both recommended doing a search which will yield the pros and cons. As far as the logic that the possibility of an unstable reserve deployment via the RSL following a cutaway form a spinning mal is a worse scenario than a no pull in the same situation, well anyone who can't see the flaw there needs to spend some serious one on one time with a KNOWLEDGEABLE instructor. alan

I've heard of several zero-p d-bags failing, one of which resulted in a main malfunction. I can recall of no fatalities associated to this as of yet. My advice is to use the d-bag that comes with the rig as it is a designed component of that unit. Size, shape and even fabric to fabric friction all have an effect on the D-bag that was designed to be compatible with the main pack tray of you rig. The manufacturer is the correct source of information. alan

Well, I thought this would have gotten a response by now. since it hasn't, I'll do it. Your PC generates ~80# of pressure. Were you able to simply give the bridle a tug to open the pack or did you have to really pull on it to the tune of 80#? That should answer your question. Also, pushing the bridle in too far _can_ cause a pc in tow by hooking/looping itself over the top corner of the side flap. Odd, but I know of one case of this happening. alan

Better??? Yes, the reserve handle is part of the TSO'd system and therefore has to be of a make/model approved by the manufacturer. alan

It seems as if you are already familiar with the rules of thumb for wing loading. With that in mind, it is a little unfair/unrealistic for anyone to give you much more advice without actully being knowledgeable of your skills as a canopy pilot. Your best bet is still to get to someone you can trust who is skilled/capable enough to give you solid advice after observing your skills over time and under a variety of conditions. alan

Go to this web-site and punch in the correct dates for your unit, it will tell you the value of a used CYPRES. As stated previously, a new one can usually be found for about $850. http://www.poxon.org/Craig/Skydive/Tools/CypresValuer.asp alan

Good question. There are two components to the speed of a canopy, horizontal and vertical. CYPRES is only concerned with the vertical component. So far, the vertical component has not been an issue, even during aggressive spiraling in the range CYPRES firing altitudes, but with the advent of the new x-braced canopies, wing loading and performance have come into the range where Airtec is taking a look at the firing algorithims. Bottom line......Yes, I believe that with some of todays canopies a skilled and experienced pilot could appoach the firing threshold, but remember, the CYPRES is designed to fire at ~750' AGL, so playing at say 2000' AGL _should_ not pose serious risk even though the rate of decent could exceed 78 mph. Most high performance canopy pilots are not screwing around anymore at 1000', they are setting up their landing approach. During the energy/speed building manuevers below this altitude, I would not be trying to have an excessive vertical component, but rather vectoring it for reasons of safety and effieciency. These canopies have a very long recovery arc and one had better be in it with enough altitude to achieve horizontal flight befire landing. I hope this answers your questions. alan

I think that you really need to talk to Sandy at RI. If you are placing more emphasis/priority on how it looks rather than getting a proper fit, then you may be in for disappointment or worse.....trouble. An incorrectly sized reserve/main combination could lead to a poor reserve deployment or none at all. Do you really want to venture into that territory? Mfgr specifications are not arbitrary and they are there for a reason. alan

I have been clocked with a radar gun at the bottom of my recovery arc at over 70 mph. VX 89 @~2.4 at the time. I was still pretty inexperienced on the canopy at that time, so I'm pretty sure I could exceed that now. Plus, with a little hard work at beer time, I'm now at about 2.53. At that loading, I don't think that something around 80 mph would be out of the question. alan

Yes it is, but the copy I have is a later reision. I'm not sure what the differences are, however. Oh, and my copy is not in Word format as I thought in an earlier post, it is in Acrobat.pdf as the link you provided is. alan

Not really. alan

6. Wear a heat resistant/fire retardent legging over your jumpsuit on the leg with the smoke. It will protect you and your jumpsuit. alan

DuPont Solar Max. I believe it is in the filament. Many factors can affect the life of canopy fabric in conjunction with exposure to sunlight. I've heard tell that PD has an old Sabre out there with something like 15,000 jumps on it. I'll bet you could easliy confirm/refute this with a quick e-mail to PD and get you an answer on the approximate rate at which nylon loses its strentgh and porosity when exposed to sunlight as well. Figure an average of 3 minutes of canopy ride per jump and equate that to exposure to sunlight, that is about 750 hours! Hard to believe! It is not too uncommon to see zero-p canopies in the field with 2000 jumps on them. That could be 100 hours. Packed indoors? Jumped in AZ or WI? Has it gotten wet? How many times? Packed on carpet? Was it kept pretty clean? Page 499 of PPM has some interesting information, but it may be a little obsolete with respect to the fabrics used today but does not seem unreasonable to me. In part: Type I fabric, Outdoors, summer sun loses 52% of its braking strength after one week, 71% after 2 weeks, and 94% after 3 weeks. Based on the rest of the reading, I'm assuming that means 10 hour days. alan

OK, here we go again. go back and do a search for this: Re: Spectre & low wing loading? [re: alan] In this thread we have had a claim of 1500' snivels and another of 1000' openings. A snivel is generally regarded as from the time the canopy leaves the bag until the slider starts to come down. An opening is usually defined as pitch to slider 2/3 down on a flying canopy. If you read my posts in the referenced thread, you can see what John LeBlanc and I had to say about opening distances in general, meaning they apply to the Sabre as well. "Streamer" is generally used in the context of a malfunction and would probaly be accurate in most cases of describing a canopy that "snivels" for 1500' or takes 1000' "to open". Even a canopy that opens slowly will rarely take a 1000' to open. But then again, the guy who designs and tests them may not know what he is talking about. alan

I discussed this paper with John at SDC's Winter Expo last year. If my memory is correct, he said Jerry had asked him to co-author it but John refused because there were some things in it he did not agree on, even though he had provided a considerable amount of input. He did not elaborate on that aspect though. Personally, I think anyone who wants to be a serious canopy pilot, should be familiar with Sobieski's paper. I had asked Sangiro to re-post it to Dropzone.com and he did, but somehow it got lost in one of his upgrades to the site. Maybe if he received enough requests for it again, he would re-post one more time. I believe I have it in a Word file and if anyone requests a copy, I would try to e-mail it as an attachment. The scan on it was not very good, so it is not the best quality and it is difficult to read in the printed version, but it is better than nothing. It contains some very technical information that may be difficult to follow and may be too in depth for the average recreational pilot, but it also has some very simple, straight forward information as well, which every novice could benefit from. alan

Read through this forum, there are several threads that will give you some insight. Also, do a search for posts from Paul Quade both here and in the Gear and Rigging Forum. He has posted some very good info on the aerodynamics involved in parachute flight. You will find a post in which he goes into a lot of detail on stalls. The short version is that in a front riser turn, if you find yourself too low to complete the turn, you can simply ease up on the riser and the canopy will start to recover with no loss of speed and therefore more efficiently. Additionally, the canopy is returning to its' "normal" airfoil and flight mode, which again is more efficient. If you are too high, you just stop the turn by pulling down the other riser and do a straight in approach with both front risers. The trick is to not use too much front riser input and over distort the canopy/airfoil, this will greatly reduce its' efficiency. It will start to "buck" when you go too far. Conversely, if you do a toggle turn too low and find yourself "in the corner", your only option is to flare, or worse yet, "stab" your brakes. This will do several things, including rapidly changing your angle of attack which can lead to an accellerated stall too near the ground. It will also radically change the camber of the airfoil very quickly as well, which will increase drag and cause the airflow to delaminate from the canopy/wing. This reduces efficiency and when combined with the sudden/radical change in aoa, you again increase the likelyhood of a wing that will cease to fly. So, you will have induced drag, slowed your airspeed, radically changed/increased your aoa, and distorted your airfoil as opposed to reducing induced drag, increasing your airspeed, returned to the designed aoa, and returned to an undistorted airfoil. Of course with a toggle hook, if you realize soon enough that you are too low to complete the turn, you can always abort to a crosswind/downwind landing or go a braked turn to conserve altitude in exchange for speed. This assumes you take action before getting into the corner. Still, less desireable options than with the front risers. OK, so that wasn't real short. There is much more to it and I may have over simplified, but I think this was enough for a basic explanation. alan

That is odd. One of the properties of Spectra is that it is more dimensionally stable than Dacron or the gutted 550 that is commonly used for main closing loops. It is less resistant to damage from heat though and is more likely to shrink than stretch. Typically, the standard reserve closing loop that comes from the mfgr is Spectra because it doesn't stretch, among other reasons. The CYPRES loop is Spectra. It has not been widely used as a main loop because it is so easily damaged by the friction heat generated by someone zipping out a pull-up chord. alan

I apologize for just going from memory on this one, but I _believe_ the placard on a PD reserve reads something to the effect of "25 jumps" or "40 repacks" before needing to be sent in for inspection. That is a long cry from "rated for only 25 repacks". I have found that if you have any question about a PD product and contact them, you will get a prompt, thorough, accurate, and polite reply.........from John LeBlanc as often as not. alan