MMK

Any loss of life is tragic. They seem to have changed the headline to your link, since it now says "Ohio Teen Drowns After Jumping Off Rock Ledge into Lake Martin", which removes the BASE association. Not much comfort for the parents, but a more accurate reflection of the actual event, Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

Thanks for clarification - fully agree with the 'Quality & Quantity' approach. Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

I am probably a little 'slow' on the uptake and haved missed the joke. I was nodding away in agreement until I got to the 20-min turn around time. Are you referring to unpacked jumps? Your 10-11 before 1330hrs seems to suggest not, whilst the 6+ per day seems to suggest maybe a little longer for packing assuming a 15min climp between putting gear into stuff sack and coming over the wall. If you are talking about packed jobs, I would like to pick your brains on a few packing 'hints'. I would have thought, assuming you got 'good' weather and its summer, that one hour for a pack, jump and climb would give you sufficient time for a lunch break and the forementioned 6+ jumps - if that was your aim is. This is certainly personal choice, but I also seem to remember reading in a few articles the phrase "BASE jumpers believe in quality of life, not quantity", so maybe I will use that as an excuse when I am breathing out of my a$£e next time I get to the bottom of the wall! Personally, being not a natural climber, the last 'climb' (I know the climbers are chuckling at this point) was the most daunting part for me during my visit to TF. Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

I do not intend to upset anyone, so I start out by saying that this is in my opinion a worthwhile and deserving cause and the individual has clearly thought hard and long about a 'novel' way of raising money. However, one of the aspects that attracted be to BASE is the 'getting there' and 'getting out'. When I see 'Get lift to altitude' (i.e. top of bridge)', 'grab spare rig', 'get somone else to pack' then I would think 'dropzone and skydiving. Of course it is still the bridge, although I am sure the 'Safety Director' in place will make sure that all conditions are ok and the jumper is in a fit state to go - sounds like my dropzone again. *** Schilling is preparing for the toll 200 jumps in 24 hours will take on his body. He does yoga five times a week, swims, does calisthenics, runs three times a week, gets adequate sleep, and is careful about what he eats. He also practices jumping from the 500-foot cliff in the backyard of his home in Utah. *** These Special Ops guys sure are tough - I don't think I know anybody else who can run 3 times a week and is still able to do yoga. Then again, I thought that after basic training (which has a few more runs per week) that the minimum requirement was 2 Physical Training (PT) sessions with a regimental run throuwn in on Fridays. Of course if you play a sport, there will be two more training sessions and a game each week. Sounds like he is well prepared to run to the basket though. Of course he will have to stay awake for 24 hours in a situation where an error could be fatal, however, having undoubtedly done Escape and Evasion as part of his Spec Ops trg 24hrs should be a doddle - especially with that healthy diet. *** As the event draws closer, he also will take three or four practice jumps a day off the Perrine Memorial Bridge. *** I assume we are down to four because we have to 'climb out' and pack ouselves. Undoubtedly, all Special Ops guys reading this are now out setting up OPs near the bridge to seize me the next time I arrive. Well, as I said, a good cause, but I am not sure this event is beneficial for BASE jumping at the bridge nor a great advertisement for the Special Forces. Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

Never heard about the 'Nigerian' scam before this - I must get out more.

I have both UK and US accounts. I currently reside in the US. PM me details and you can just pay the UK equivalent into my UK account.

You are of course right, I have to 'work' at whatever I do, especially if I want to be around to chill out afterwards. I just don't think of it as 'work', since it falls into my 'fun' category. Thanks

That would be cool - combinig a trg cse with some fun afterwards. I have been looking at some 'Wilderness First Aid Courses', maybe we can get those chaps involved as well and make it a really awsome package. I would be in! Please PM or post if something comes up. Mick Just My Penny - 'No comments are meant to offend individuals and are purely a personal view presented by myself'.

Incidents/Hazards - hey, here are afew definitions (sorry, last job) Incident - The occurrence of a hazard that might have progressed to an accident, but did not. Hazard - Potential source of harm Accident - An unintended event or sequence of events that causes harm Harm- Death, physical injury or damage to the health of people, or damage to property or the environment. Hazard Identification - The process of identifying and listing the hazards and accidents associated with a system. So, an incident might highlight areas that lead to an accident, but both are preventable if we do correct/appropiate hazard identification. Problem tends to be unless you know about likely hazards, your risk analysis goes to pot and so on (i.e. those bastards shoot back, which pinstripe suit did not anticipate). It is sad but true, that the best hazard analysis in the world is not good enough until it can be beefed up by 'lessons identified', i.e. through incidents and hopefully few accidents. Personally, all these numbers, graphs and definitions make me think of work, which is something I leave behind when I head out. Then again, some people might think this is not the appropiate 'scientific' and 'ordered' approach one should take when it comes to BASE. Undoubtedly I will learn with time, but for the time being I enjoy the freedom and leave my calculator and definition handbook on my desk as I leave work. Just my penny Mick

Well, I am not all that bright when it comes to numbers. However, I seem to remember a saying along the lines of "There are statistics, then there are more statistics and then ther are just plain lies". In fact, manipulating numbers we can probably demonstrate that 1=3. With my limited experience in BASE, I can not believe that people stand at the edge of an object with a calculator working out that they have a 76% chance of survival. Maybe I have no idea what drives people and they enjoy and seek the near death experience, but personally, I like the odds to be on my side. Does it excite people to say "Hey, somone is going to die in the next 30 jumps and I am jumping tonight?" Of course, the aspect of danger and the hightened awareness what is happening around you is exciting, but in my humble opinion, I am not focused on death or serious injury, but the satisfaction I get from the jump. As you can probably tell, I struggle with EXCEL and in particular in producing fancy graphs. Mick

Tom, Being a 'newbe' who did a FBJC, I have the following comment. People with no or limited BASE experince do understand the $$$ sign. Not only would it give an indication of importance key training objectives, but it would focus on their pre-course training/preparation. Of course that would only apply to those that have the cash to do the course in the first place. I have heard of cases where people said "hey, you have done the course - why dont you tech me?" - no way - I still sweat everytime I pack my rig! The problem is more and more people will get into the sport because of the media exposure (extreme sport). More people will offer courses and more people will cut corners. Bridge Day is a controlled environment and we are allowed to jump once a year. TF offers us this opportuity all year round. It won't take long for the friendly brother/sister hood to tun onto each other if Jack and Joe get abmulanced out on every trip. In summry, I like the financial incencive 'carrot' - (works for the Army), but cant stop anyone with tarp over their head launchig some freeky bridge flyoff, Mick

Tom, Thanks for response. I fully agree and I have read the documents before I set down along the path. I only raised the comment because, in my opinion, this was not clear in this thread. Additionally, I know from personal experience (addmittedly based only a single case), that some people (well, at least one person) are focused on the 'number' rather than the associated skilles, mindset and reason (for doing BASE). As I said, just my thoughts as I read the thread. Mick

NickD, Sean621, I am am just starting out, so you might feel you want to ignore what I have to say about setting 'limits' for someone starting out in BASE. I agree that there should be a certain experience level, but I am concerned that people might think that they have reached the magical '150, 200, 500, ...' and they are now ready and safe to do BASE. There is a certain skill level expected once people reach these numbers, however, that is not a given. I am only familiar with the skydiving progression in the UK and USA, and in my opinion it is pretty 'easy' in the USA to progress to your A-license and then get pulled into the freefly&downsize stream of the sport and 'bang out the numbers'. Without getting down to detail, I think that you would agree that mere numbers are not an indicator of experience or mindset. Then again, who are we to judge why someone wants to do BASE? We might worry about the 'bad' publicity and the loss of life and serious injury, but ultimately it is the individual's choice. It sounds like you want to start 'regulating' the sport. We start with jump numbers and maybe we should have assessments before people are 'allowed' to do BASE (so we will all agree to jump only 'official' sites with safety supervisors). Appollogies, I am starting to get carried away. In summary, I agree with basic recommendations when it comes to giving advice (I got it and I thought it was sound), however, laying down strict and re-enforced rules will, in my opinion, not deter the determined. Again, in my opinion, it would take away most of the 'free choice' that has drawn me to the sport in the first place. As far as 'fatality' numbers are concerned, it saddens me that the number is remembered rather than the individual. Was the 2000th fatality in Iraq more meaningfull than number 53? No, but it makes a media headline that sells papers and gets viewers to tune in. I have never taken particular notice about the number, but at the individuals background and what lessons I can identify for myself. I am always greatfull for all those that express their views and put them into the 'lessons identified' category. If I should find myself in a similar situation and use any of the advice, it goes to the 'lessons learned' file. thanks for the penny MMK

Not sure how much use these comments are to you, but I will tell you my experience from downhill (DH)mountain biking with respect to your body armour Q (and I have crashed a lot!). I think it is a valid comparison since the objects you hit (ground, trees, rocks, etc) and the speed 20+mph are comparable to 'normal' impact situations when looking at BASE applications. DAINESE has been the market leader in terms of body armour for DH (and probably sports motorbiking) for a long time. Being Italien and having the 'brand' name, has resulted in a 'hefty' price tag. Many manufactureers have followed the trend and in my opinion, SIXSIXONE (http://www.sixsixone.com/catalog.aspx?id=5A9821F7-40C2-4C43-AB0B-5F478B7645A1&pl=BIKE) provides comparable gear at a lower price. Here are the lessons I learned: No 2 bodys are the same - you need to try it on to check fit; hard armor is useless unless it is in the right place on impact - ensure good fit and good safety suits have securing straps; the spine protector might look like it extends to your coxic - it does not - consider safety shorts that protect your hips, thighs & coxic; none of the jackets on the market will keep you cool - take it off and strap it to your pack; wearing a shirt over the top helps prevent snag points, but also prevents you shredding your shirt - that 'keep cool' mesh material rips easily. Finally, in my opinion (plenty of DH, motorbike & moto-x crashes), body armour provides protection from impact injury and due to the 'compression' side of these jackets may help in keeping body parts in place (i.e. adds strength to your ribcage and as such aids protection of internal organs). From what I have gathered from Jason's jump, I agree that the body armor certainly helped, but I would warn people from thinking that it actually saved him - it was a contributing factor, but I doubt even Dainese would sponsor somone to jump of the bridge sans parachute just protected by a Dainese Safety Jacket.

Hey Andrew, I attended my first course with Marta and Jimmy last week and had the good fortune to meet the 'Canadians' - was shoked to hear about Jason's accident and the circumstances. If you head back to the hospital, please pass on my best to Jason - hope to see him out there again soon. Thanks Mick

thanks Mick

Howdy, I have just completed the First BASE Jump course in Twin Falls with Marta, Jimmy and Red Eye - many thanks again, it was an exciting experience. I now want to build upon those skills I have learned and was hoping that there might be some BASE jumpers in the North Alabama area who are willing to share some of their knowledge. I am happy to do groundcrew, especially since I have only just ordered my gear, so will not be able to jump for a few months. Mick