Orange1

...um, you? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yeah, like the Greenwich police looking for an "outsider" because they couldn't comprehend of an upright Greenwich citizen murdering Martha Moxley. As for knapsack, even I remember that word from the early 70s (and I'm on the other side of the world). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, here. Post 1108, Apr 4! http://www.answers.com/topic/boeing-727 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

FOIA files on DB Cooper are available on the FBI website, though as I understand these are not "everything" - ckret correct me if i am wrong on this. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Well now, this should be interesting. I have a feeling that a request to do a tandem night jump out the jet would probably be vetoed - and that itself (bearing in mind this is over a nice big safe landing area) should give the whuffos some idea of how dangerous the jump would have been. If it can get approved because some super-experienced TI gets it approved, then i really do believe ckret, safe et al should take the opportunity and go! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, my only problem with the revenge theory is it contradicts the conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory about keeping it quiet would contradict the revenge theory (i.e. conspiracy = on behalf of someone else). The revenge theory is more plausible. If you go to the link I posted somewhere yesterday I think about the info on Boeing 727s - it includes details of all the crashes/incidents involving these planes which may give you some more detail of what you are looking for. But surely it would make more sense to target the airline responsible for the crash, not someone else just because they (like just about any airline in those days i guess) used 727s? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

hmmm.. some interesting points. That makes a lot of sense to me. The way you describe it, also sounds like he was someone used to being in authority. We've discussed the "why not missed if dead" at length.. but something has just occurred to me. Maybe he was missed, but for some reason no-one thought to connect him to the crime. Ckret, do we have any idea how many missing persons reports would have been filed in the US in say the day to month after the hijacking, that matched the description? Would they all have been followed up as a matter of course? I guess another point to consider though, if your point 1 is right.. maybe his family didn't want to report him missing, or do anything else that would involve cops. I agree with that, but I'm not at all convinced that it is the FBI's job. The idea of a PI has been raised; I'm sure she could find one who she could convince that there was something in her story, and to whom the publicity that would come with proof of DB Cooper would offset, maybe, the need to charge her for services rendered. The conspiracy theory angle (which seems to wax and wane you may have noticed) just doesn't wash with me, apart from anything else it's been pointed out that someone always talks somewhere. And I mean, it's not like DB Cooper assassinated anyone important, is it? Those of us outside the US know even less. Are there any internet links to transcripts of any of these shows? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Actually Jo I really think a private investigator is your best bet. There are a whole lot of avenues you clearly want to explore that the FBI won't because (from what I understand) they don't see nearly enough (any?) real evidence from what you have so far provided them with to divert resources away from other, "real" stuff that they are doing (and your continual carping at them on this forum clearly isn't going to change their mind on that one). A PI could maybe get you some answers one way or the other and I have no doubt from what Larry has posted here that if there was actually any real evidence turned up as a result of it, they would follow up (just like they were prepared to do with the canopy found in WA for example). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I doubt you'd have any success going that route. While the FAA may not have jurisdiction anywhere else other countries do actually have their own civil aviation organisations. Other countries also abide by the manufacturers' recommendations on maximum loading; one guy pitched up for my first jump course weighing around 110 kg (240lb); he wasn't allowed to do the course. He had somehow missed the bit where they tell you maximum 100kg. We may not have a litigation-happy society like the US, but that doesn't mean DZs are negligent about safety as a result. It may surprise you, but some countries actually have stricter requirements on a number of issues (like certain licence or ratings requirements) than the US does, by the way. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

At my DZ the AFF rigs were ripcord rigs. Once you had finished AFF you did 2 "conversion jumps" on a pilot 210 (the AFF rigs were skymaster 230s). There were pilot 210s and 190s as rentals and most people did some jumps on those first before getting their own gear (rental prices are such as to discourage people from using them indefinitely). Being small i was lightly loaded on those, moved down to a 170 and then a 150 where i am just under 1:1, but not keen to go to a smaller size canopy for a while yet irrespective of WL. Oh, and I did manage to break my ankles on my 2nd jump on the 170 along the way. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Can a reserve really be "too big"? Not attacking - serious question - for 20 sq ft bigger I doubt the answer is yes but are there circumstances it is? Doesn't the PD article on 2-outs suggest that it is better to have main and reserve of similar sizes? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Please explain to someone who's never used one of those old systems... surely it is deployment speed and not aircraft speed that is important? Or is there something about the way the system was set up that it would blow apart on exit? What I am trying to understand is, would an experienced jumper have taken it on the assumption that it would have been safe to deploy once they had slowed to terminal, so it would only be an issue for a hop & pop? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I don't think anyone answered the question about a seating plan, but surely row 18 would not have been right at the rear of a 727? Even in the old days when there was more space between seats. The 727-100 had a maximum seating capacity of 149 and the seats were configured 6 per row. That gives me 24 or 25 rows, so row 18 would have been about two-thirds down ... which doesn't sound consistent with (what i've read on here, possibly incorrectly reported) that he sat at the very back. I've assumed it was a 100 from something else here, if it was a 727-200 it had even more rows. Link here, includes incidents involving 727s (yes, our subject is there too) http://www.answers.com/topic/boeing-727 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I think the answer to this one is very simple: smoking section was always in the rear. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

It's a true story that you flew a 727 during an oil crisis in 1773? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Um... I may be wrong but I seem to recall that the travel agent handwrote (filled in the boxes) on the ticket and the booking was done via some kind of telex or telex-type machine. (Think about it: how could you possibly book a multi-leg ticket otherwise?) I distinctly remember arriving at the airport one day to find that the travel agent had written the flight time in wrong. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I wasn't guessing your age at all. I had actually put you in this age group... till you made what imo are fairly ridiculous comments about nostril and ear hairs and bushy eyebrows as "proof" that the age estimate might have been correct. I know many people in this age group and none of them display any of those. One even has (naturally) no gray hair Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

er yes older folk do but generally not the 45-50 age group! Ditto for the bushy eyebrows comment. How many people in this age group do you actually know??? And it is certainly not unheard of - not very common maybe but NOT unheard of - for a 50-year old to have no (or so few as to not be noticeable) gray hairs. As for the witnesses ... hmm let's see if the stews were around 22-23... in those days chances are their parents were probably around 50 or so, yes? I would think most people are quite capable of "gee he looks about as old as my mom/dad" or something along those lines. People have more bases for age comparison than how someone acts towards them. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Oh, and Jo. Just so you don't think I'm all one-sided, there is another piece of circumstantial evidence that might help you. i seem to recall you mentioned somewhere that one iof Duane's favorite sayings was something like "let's get this show on the road". Now, that is not a very uncommon saying at all -- so nothing conclusive -- but, it may interest you to know that in the transcript when the hijacker was getting impatient he was reported to have told them "to get the plane on the road". And on the sideshow of the Quade debate, while I didn't necessarily agree with who got banned for PAs in the last thread, I personally enjoy the droll cynical interjections Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Something else about the John Collins in the hotel. That was a known alias of Weber, right- he had even been imprisoned under that name. As far as I know you did not need ID to check into hotels any more than you needed it to board a plane in those days. Why would he have left such an obvious clue? snowmman, there are lots of things that don't "fit", but most of those are because we have no idea of how they occurred (the money ending up at tina's bar, the landing zone, what happened to cooper, etc). this was one that had more than one witness. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Would John Collins checking into a hotel down the street from PDX the night of Nov 23, 1971 add more weight? It might. Pity John Collins and Dan Cooper are both pretty "common" names (presumably why both of them were chosen). Hence the fact that there were a whole bunch of Dan Coopers picked up or examined after the incident, including the one with a previous arrest for drunkenness. Intriguing but still circumstantial. I know it doesn't "prove" anything but if you do a google search for John Collins it brings up plenty of hits on obviously different people... even wiki pages on 2 of them. Jo, about 10% of people are left-handed and it is more common in males than females (so the % of males will be somewhat higher). By itself, that's still not nearly enough. On the chute found and the Cossey debate: surely there is an easy way to check this, if it was a proper full canopy then it was not the dummy reserve? On the revenge motive - it's already been put forward he may have been a disgruntled Boeing employee. That or NWA. I think "revenge" against the FBI for something like this is a bit far fetched, if they had found him (how could he be sure they wouldn't unless he planned on cratering in the wilderness?) it wouldn't have been much "revenge". And finally snowmman.. I really don't get all the arguments about his age. Like ckret says, all the reports had him around there. The first one out - in the transcript between 305 and ATC - describes him as 50 yrs old, black hair and 6'1". I agree with ckret here, in the absence of conflicting witness statements on age i really don't see how you can keep arguing it? I mean, like ckret says if they were wrong about age why not everything else, then let's just declare Christiansen Cooper and be done with it. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Interesting that all his aliases had the same initials though - J.C.C. I bet that comes from somewhere. If the hijacker had been John Collins maybe it would add more weight to the Duane theory. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes, but we all know you're different. And I am presuming you don't use your "pen name" for criminal purposes. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Surely a middle name is... well, pretty obvious? Alternatively, I understand it's fairly common for aliases to use the same initials as the real person. Someone D. C. ... possibly a 2-syllable last name as well. First name... maybe also a 1-syllable abbreviation of a longer name... Don, Dave etc. Should only take about a million man-hours to search through records to find someone who fits Maybe a boeing employee would narrow it down. Ckret - any comments on this line of thinking? I presume somewhere in the vast FBI lore there is work on this. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Are these digs really necessary or justified? You and Jo may have an issue with whether this is Tosaw or not, until you can prove it, it just irritates (at least some of) the rest of us. Some of us don't actually have agendas, hidden or otherwise, outside of pure interest in the case. I for one don't give a toss if it's Tosaw or not. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.