MikeForsythe

Just another reason not to live in California (JK, yes I know this could have happened anywhere) That is why I am glad that I live where I do. I own the street and the property around it and have enough property to park about 300 cars. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

There seems to be some confusion as to the word “Marriage” in this issue. The majority of those that are against same sex marriage are so because of the religious belief that a marriage is between a man and a woman. There are also religious beliefs that say it can be between any two adults. My reason for removing marriage from government is that it denies religious freedom and equality as protected by our constitution. If the government says that same sex marriage is not okay then they are taking a stand as a government determining that a religions view is wrong and thereby denying their freedom of religious beliefs. If they say it is okay, you have the same denial of religious beliefs on the other side. If we as a nation come up with a universal definition of civil unions that allows people to share their lives with who they want then we create a win win solution. Everyone has equality and the government is not judging or denying any religious beliefs. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Not pathetic at all, lets take the entire quote “I said that in the society where we get the word marriage from, religion and government were inseperable.” Is the USA part of society or not? Has that government ever been separate from marriage? Since it has your statement fails. What I do know is that am wise enough to be respectful and not call others “dumb” because my view is different. Something you might try and learn. It is not according millions of people involved that think otherwise. I guess you have not read what I posted. I would and have voted against gay marriage just as I would for non-gay marriage if it were placed on the ballot. I have and would vote for gay and non-gay civil unions. I have constantly stated that I don’t think that the government should have the power to tell me who I can spend my life with or who I can assign my benefits to. There are laws here that require blood test to get a marriage license. If you test positive for AIDS for example you can’t get married, that is wrong. Why do you think that it is right that the government can consider my marriage before God invalid unless THEY approve it? Talk about arrogance. Are we clear? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

I agree, I was only using jakee's verbiage for simplicity so that maybe he would understand. The laws that invoked marriage into our government did not come for years after our government was formed. Remember that I was only showing that at some point marriage and government (USA) were separate. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Nope, but that is irrelevant. You said “word "marriage" from religion and government was inseperable” and I showed you a government where it was. Not to mention the fact that this thread IS about the USA. No, it is not “dumb”. Any one person that thinks they are wiser than millions is usually arrogant. While I agree that there are probably a lot of people that think it may be “petty” they are clearly in the minority. The majority of people on both sides of the issue are pretty passionate about their position and “petty” is not a word that would accurately describe it. Okay, replace it and try and prove it. I have not, nor proposed to deny anyone equality or religious freedom. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

You might as well stop with the red herrings because no one is buying it. They were the sole repositories of law when our government was formed and at that time there was a separation of government and marriage. That proved what you said was wrong. In post 78 did you not say that “You seem to be blissfully unaware that in the society whos language we get the word "marriage" from religion and government was inseperable.”?. Now the question again is at the time when the USA government was formed and for several years afterwards were the government and marriage separate? If the answer is yes which it is then your statement is wrong. You then asked me “Can you show me when marriage has ever been seperate from government?” and I did. Your false assumption is that I don’t know. You also have a false assumption that people actually have to answer you and agree with you or be wrong. It is pretty arrogant to think that one person is wiser than the millions. Prove that I am “happy” to deny the right of people. You really need to quit telling people what their emotions are when you both lack the wisdom to know and you are wrong. I am neither denying the right of anyone the right to get married by whatever faith they follow or join in a civil union. Just because I don’t agree with their views does not mean that I don’t respect them. That is something you might learn. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Guess again. Your question was "Can you show me when marriage has ever been seperate from government?" The purpose of me showing you the Declaration and the Constitution was to show you that when our government was established marriage was separate. You asked me if I could show you if there was ever a separation and I did. Marriage was not addressed until the late 1700's and the first government marriage licenses were in the mid 1800's. Funny how you really think that you are wiser than the millions that think that it is not "petty". I always find it sad when people like you lack respect and resort to persecution and name calling when others view is different than yours. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Do I have to answer this? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Really? Guess again, read THIS. It is a little unknown document called the United States Constitution and Amendments. Oh, then there is this other document called the Declaration of Independence. Now for the question, show me where "marriage" is used? Wrong again. I want it removed from the power of government. That has nothing to do with the religious side of the issue. If it is removed from government then that is exactly what I want. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

That is fine. What part of ban any government reference to the religious term "marriage" don't you understand? Let governments use civil unions and leave marriage to religions where they took it from. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Well clearly it is. So what percent of the population should it take to pass? Bill said a super majority. Well in Florida we have that and it still passed so what next? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Yeah they do, I have seen them both in jump suits at the same time. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Too many dam greenies Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Nice try Bill, lets leave out the red herring and your usual extreme examples and address the issue here. Do you agree or not that having a religious view automatically makes you a bigot? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

It kind of does means it also kind of doesn’t. Silly argument. So you are saying that everyone that voted for it did so because they were "extremely mean spirited"? Try again. Yes it does, when it is the truth, but that is not the case here. We had a similar amendment question here in Florida (passed by a super majority). I voted for it because I don’t think the government should be in the marriage business. If the same question was on the ballot for heterosexual couples I would vote to ban that too. So if I am against the government marring anyone how does that make my vote "extremely mean spirited"? And if that is how you truly feel then by definition you would be the bigot that others here have thrown the term around without justification or knowledge. So what is it Bill? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

I agree, that is what I said. Having religious beliefs that are different than yours does not automatically make it bigotry. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Well then I will tell you. I am against same sex marriage. Marriage is a specific religious term regarding a man and a woman. It should have never been brought into and comingled with government. I DO think that civil unions should be allowed to grant equality of rights. I don't think anyone should be able to dictate who I spend my life with or who I want to receive MY benefits. If the same sex marriage proponents want to win the war then they need to quit fighting the battles. Go for civil unions and I bet that it will pass a whole lot faster. I know that I would support it. Bigot Just because someone voted for Prop 8 does not automatically make them a bigot. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

By all mean, please accept my time to continue patting yourself on the back wise one. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

So then you agree that anyone that is intolerant of or takes offense to my opinions on marriage is a bigot. After all, that is the definition. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

It is official, Prop 8 is upheld. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Sure, the present administration appears weak internationally. They want to want to "talk" and open up "dialog" and give standing to terrorist and the countries that support them. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Gladstones? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

The world needs to economically choke them off and stop anything from going into or coming out. But what WILL happen is we will beat them up with words. Just look what New Zealand's Prime minister said "a very disappointing move". Obama said "it is a matter of grave concern" I am sure that will scare them and make them stop.................NOT. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

I think you are confused. It just means that you have to have more to be equal. Besides, I don't see having an additional shopping DNA as being superior.Genetic superiority is not having the additional flawed DNA. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Speaking of wool, you do know I have about 40 sheep don't you? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!