Antidote

I'm starting to question the wisdom of actively encouraging people to join the sport. With 'active' I mean the typical "you should try it" and the follow ons that many skydivers I know (including myself not that many months ago) have when friends/friends of friends find out you skydive. Passive support I agree with. Then it's their own drive that lead them on the path. The reason being that in 'active' mode, the positive tends to be focused upon whereas the negative tends to be put on the back burner. In other words, most of the 'recruiting' I've seen has been "it's tons of fun and not really as dangerous as they say". As newbies most of us have, at some time or another, been guilty of this. But skydiving isn't Disneyland or a ride in an amusement park. To me it's true living and with that comes with the extremes of joy and pain. Yesterday, I lost a friend. I watched helplessly from above as he turned into the ground. Four months ago a jumper I've spent some time with and hoped to spend a lot more with died in a similar situation. I'm unsure if most want-to-be-skydivers/newbies fully realize the seriousness of the sport they're getting into. I am also wondering if I and others are able to give them the whole picture of what they're about to be involved in. Furthermore, I believe most newcomers see a statement such as "if you're in the sport long enough you're going to see friends die and you might die yourself" as either machoism or as something that only entice them further in a morbid way. I'm not sure but I have a feeling inside me that the danger bit isn't emphasized enough. Even worse, even if it was emphasized more, I think in many cases it just wouldn't be believed. The "won't happen to me'" attitude thing. Good people die in this sport. Friends die. I might die. Die as in DEAD FOREVER, gone, no longer with us, NEVER see that smiling face again. That is the reality. And man, has it hit me now. Despite it all I will still skydive. But I know some who experienced this reality and then quit. It'd be better, perhaps, if they hadn't started in the first place. Any thoughts on this?

Why did they replace the M1911A1 anyway? Many gun enthusiast friends of mine say it's one of the finest most reliable handguns out there - and that it *will* stop an opponent.

I'd say no. You're the only one truly responsible for your own safety. The police CANNOT be relied upon to protect you. It's not a matter of not wanting to - it's just that cops can't be everywhere at once and bad stuff happens in seconds. The police might be minutes away and that won't help if you need protection here and now I've tried talking to my friends in this country about just that issue but they're unable or unwilling to see my point. Mostly, I think, because it naturally leads to the question "how do you protect yourself?", to which my (simplistic) answer is: training and tools. My preferred training/tool combination would be with a handgun. Unfortunately, my government/friends do not agree with me, insisting the police can protect me no matter what. And that's an unrealistic answer IMHO.

Quote Great point to make. I am solid in my sit, but yet I still only will go out with very experienced FF'ers. When you have 2 people with little experience, it can be very dangerous if someone corks or gets above or below you. SMACK! Not only that, you also have the "fly all over the sky" situation. If we're talking two newbie sitfliers, they may not notice their relative motion (relative to other more stable groups) and then they might slide into someone elses airspace. I've had that happen to me before and having some dudes drop by you in free fall while you're under canopy is no fun at all. Back/forward/side sliding can be a serious issue to other groups, especially if the fliers have lost sight of the line-of-flight or just haven't "thought about that" I started at around jump 40 or so, but jumped with a coach until I could fall straight down

Weird. I fall at around 245 km/k (148mph) in my most comfortable position wearing a Katrin Suit (rather tight) suit. To my defense, my "comfy" position is basically 'wide as possible' with my legs, but that's what I prefer. I'm a very light dude though. Have to speed it when not jumping with people who're good at adjusting their fall rate, but sit flyers seem to like it

Well it IS my home, and while I ain't staying for long it's still where I keep ALL my stuff, be it spiritual or material, so I'd appreciate if you try to keep it tidy while you're in transit .

I got no beef with fraternities or sub groups in skydiving or life in general. As long as they don't intrude on my life, I have no objections - quite the contrary. Bonding's good. But with th CSA thing I see two potential problems. One is in the text above. I go to the DZ to get away from everyday stuff - and that includes the church and religions and politics and everything else that is potentially dividing and might put people up against each other for no reason. So, if someone dragged a mobile church to my dropzone, I'd ask them to set it up at a non intrusive place. One I wouldn't have to pass on my way to a load/packing and so on. Then it wouldn't intrude on my life and I wouldn't limit others skydivers abilities to do their thing. Thing number two about the CSA thatI find a bit disturbing is this (quote from their goals on their website): Take the Gospel message of Jesus Christ, Acts 16:31, Romans 10: 9, to the community of parachuting enthusiasts. Dudes. Seriously. I don't wanna hear about Chtulhu (ok, maybe a bit, coz Lovecraft is a scary mofo writer) or the Easter Bunny or the Christian God in its many manifestations or Allah. Due to cultural bias, I'll listen if you're talking about Thor or Odin because they're pretty cool. Particularly Freja, I like her. Anyway, my point is: you'll get farther working in the quiet so to speak. Preaching to people about your religious beliefs is invading their privacy, unless they specifically asked for it. Leave that bit out of it and I'm positive coexistance will be enjoyed. But push your beliefs on others and there's a high risk of conflict. And, unfortunately I must say, I'll be the first one to sign up for it. I really do believe in the 'Do unto others...' (which predates Christianity, but that's a tangent) and if my fellow Christian skydivers can see my perspective and I theirs, then that would be a cool thing

Nothing personal, but I'd perceive that as a 'been there done that got the t-shirt' advice. I.e "dude I've done this shitloads of times, no biggie. Some people could take it the wrong way, that's all I'm saying. To more experienced jumpers listening in, you run the risk (depending on your choie of words) of sounding like a wannabe. I usually just tell people it's ok to be nervous, it's normal and you're supposed to be. It's an incredible thing a skydive so there are incredible feelings attached to it. Any question related to techniques in freefall and I refer them to the instructor with the words "He/she knows more about teaching than I do, and I don't wanna tell you something that's not right for you." I know many instructors are pretty annoyed at relative newcomers offering advice on how to turn etc to students.

That's the issue right there. The current generation of parents seem to think school is there no just to teach kids stuff, but to raise them fully as well.

You may have to manually clear up some of the garbage M$ put in. Probably something in the registry db. Happened to me before.

Also depends on what you're using it for. I've switched between XP and W2K on some machines at work (software development) and W2K has by far the best performance. It's more stable and not such a resource hog as XP. If you really want something out of your machine, go with Linux.

Mostly skydivers now. It's not about limiting myself but rather what has come naturally. In some way, there has to be a base of understanding between friends and the friendship needs to be nurtured. I am not too good at that unless I meet them regularly. I work 10-12 hour days. Late friday evening I go to my skydiving club with my best friend, who's also my sisters boyfriend. I hang out with them and the other regulars and get home late Sunday evening. Moved to get a job and lost touch with my non jumping friends. My fault but that is what happens when you don't take time for them

God appreciates honesty

If there's something I lack it's taste. Ain't my quote to begin with and it illustrates quite well the futility of internet based 'polemic epic battles of massive intellects'. And, technically, it ain't that wrong. Special Olympics is an international organization dedicated to empowering individuals with intellectual disabilities... From their official website. Maybe I'm crass for using a non PC term but life ain't Disney Land. The comment isn't about the SO but rather a reflection of my views og yings self proclaimed victory.

If you're not allowed to screw up in a non dangerous way, that takes away a lot of the fun. Those guys paid their money and take their chances. So it didn't go as planned. Big deal. Was it fun? Of course fun for some is when everything just clicks. I think perfectionism isn't necessarily always a good thing. If it turns someone into a berating arsehole, I'd rather be without it.

I did 350 last year. To your defense, 150 of them were in Russia. You just need to LIVE on the dropzone. Then Thy Jumps Cometh

My thinking is that at above a certain speed, deploying your main would be extremely hazardous - ergo a limit. Perhaps I'm in error.

But arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics. You may be a winner, but you'd still be a retard. It has absolutely no relevance to anyone's daily life, but it may be entertaining. Still, to claim victory seems pretty bizarre to me.

this is teh best thread evah. Im loosing it.

How 'bout Young Ned Of The Hill by the Pogues? Is that relevant? One of my favourite fighting songs. Have you ever walked the lonesome hills or heard the curlews cry Or seen the raven black as night Upon a windswept sky To walk the purple heather And hear the west wind cry To know that's where the rapparee must die Since Cromwell pushed us westward To live our lowly lives There's some of us have deemed to fight From Tipperary mountains high Noble men with wills of iron Who are not afraid to die Who'll fight with gaelic honour held on high [Chorus] A curse upon you Oliver Cromwell You who raped our Motherland I hope you're rotting down in hell For the horrors that you sent To our misfortunate forefathers Whom you robbed of their birthright "To hell or Connaught" may you burn in hell tonight Of one such man I'd like to speak A rapparee by name and deed His family dispossessed and slaughtered They put a price upon his head His name is know in song and story His deeds are legends still And murdered for blood money Was young Ned of the hill You have robbed our homes and fortunes Even drove us from the land You tried to break our spirit But you'll never understand The love of dear old Ireland That will forge and iron will As long as there are gallant men Like young Ned of the hill [Chorus]

At 14 years old she should be old enough to understand about mortality. Also, i highly doubt that she did not know what HIV was, how it is transmitted and how it develops into something much worse. She probably didn't have the big picture but I'm pretty sure she knew it was BAD. Still she had sex with others without informing them of her condition. Perhaps it is too much to ask of a 14 year old to consider the ramifications. I personally do not think so. I hope she gets help.

Well put. I wonder though why generally students aren't graphically told about the potential outcome - not just that it's potentially dangerous, but more details about just what can go wrong. Maybe it's bad for business to scare away potential customers but I think most DZOs have enough conscience not to think solely about money. I know there are some instructors who are really good at laying out the risks in a factual way, but most students I've talked to have little real understanding of the risks. One said I was being macho when I answered his question about how I perceived the risks. Another stopped completely after hearing the 1/1000 a year number. The more I jump, the more I understand the risks. As a student I thought it was more of a freak thing, but that is sadly not the case.

How about AFF? I saw a very heavy set man getting ready to do an AFF level 1 and according to his instructors he had a on-belly fall rate of around 270 km/h . He was wearing some special gear/canopy but unfortunately I cannot recall what. Just sounds pretty unsafe to me to be that fast on your belly as an AFF student. I figure it should be possible to calculate a theoretical terminal velocity based on weight and use that as a 'limiting factor' so to speak, but perhaps that's being overly geeky?

I started off at 1.1:1 at around 45 jumps or so. Kept that wingload for 400 jumps. No need to rush.

Heh yeah, lions would be all "duuude, when are those fat European big game hunters coming? The locals are like, sooo scrawny