tdog

Different strokes for different folks. I spend a lot of time with video as it is hard to convey in a photo the urgency of diving line twists vs straight flying line twists. Also, I don't like photos in the hanging harness. I find I can be much more effective being dynamic, pushing them around, showing them what line twists look like with the ropes that hold up the hanging harness and letting them, kick out, letting them pull toggles and me turning them (or not turning them to see if they understand). With the photos, the student spent so much brain energy trying to interpret the poster sized photo, their brain was not on the mechanics... Also, I could not run fast enough with the photo when I was spinning them around to simulate what a diving mal felt like...

AFFI, After reading some of this back and forth comments, I have a question that might help inspire thoughts... We have a few malfunction videos at our disposal... How I use it... As the video is playing, I ask the question... "What would you do". For 90% of the shots, they say, "cutaway and deploy reserve." I really don't care if a student knows a line over vs a tension knot... It is either "there, square, and steerable" or not... I teach this as: "You are going to ask three questions about this canopy. The first is a very simple yes or no. Is it there? If not you must... The second is, is it square and looking like a canopy? Here you might have some "almosts", like line twists, slider up, or closed end cells that we will try to fix. If you can't fix by your decision altitude, then you must... Now that we have done our two first visual inspections and know it flies rather straight, lets take the thing for a test drive and see if it is steerable. Oops, you can't flare it or steer it without it diving, or a brake line won't come out of the keeper, then what should we do?" So when we watch the video, I ask the questions on each mal. "Is it there?". "Is it square?". Then we have to go into things like hard pulls, missing handles, horseshoes, two out... But we have no video for this. If I had the ideal video, it would first address teaching the concept of "there, square, steerable" or whatever terms the school uses. Then it would branch out to the situations like line twists, etc. Gotta run, but these are some of my initial thoughts. Simply put, the video that started this thread does not really address the teaching concepts, as you have pointed out. Some are super simple to teach, others are complex. Anyway, I am always looking for better teaching things, so let me know what you guys find.

so in non-math terms... At full speed, the drag of the human is more. The drag "moves" the human back in the "window", changing the angle of attack of the canopy to be more "divey". With the "divey angle of attack", the speed of the canopy increases, causing even more drag, causing even more shift of the window, changing the angle of attack even more - until a fast divey equilibrium is found... In deep brakes, the drag of the human is less. The lack of drag "moves" the human forward in the "window", changing the angle of attack of the canopy to be "flat". With the "flat angle of attack", the speed of the canopy decreases, causing even less drag, causing even more shift of the window, changing the angle of attack even more - until a slow flat equilibrium is found. Is this accurate in your opinion?

Skr, Does it have windows? And come to think of it, I don't think the otter has windows either? Just kidding... I was at dinner with LordRatner last night talking about his jumps with Pat. LordRatner apparently asked, "so how are we going to exit?" The response was something like, "F&*$ the exit. We will jump." I think they ended up hanging from the bar under the skyvan to launch what otherwise would be a pretty traditional 4 way, except the 2nd point of the dive was a backflip.... I looked in the rule books and I found no reference to a formation block with a backflip, and to make the exit legit, for a "Q", two of the people would have to hang from the feet of the other two hanging from the bar. So we will have to bust that point too... Come on guys, get serious about the skydives. Jumps have rules to follow, formations to build, time to score....

Your video has high production quality to it - however I would not use it in the current state yet... Some of the mals are so slow - "we get it, time to move on"... Some of the mals are breezed by... Also, I don't like the fact some of the mals show chops and some don't... Why? I want to teach my students when and when not to chop. You have many chop-worthy shots, some get chopped, some don't. Some they wait a long time, some they don't.... For an example, the line over gets chopped, but the tear doesn't. Also, I did not like the crash landings into the tent at the WFFC, as the cutaway was below the 2,500 foot decision altitude taught to FJC students and the crash was avoidable. So, now that I tore it apart like an ass-hat... Here is what I would try to do. Don't show ANY EPs - just show the mal pre-EP. Make sure every video clip is "by the book". And make sure each one has a very happy ending (for an example, I think the line twists on a reserve would be too scary to show. We all know it could happen, we discuss it in the class, but lets not build the negative thought "my reserve is going to mal too" with video.)

My random thoughts: With a hundred or so jumps, like your profile says, it is more complex than for an AFF student. For AFF, I look at the student's hands. Hooknswoop when he was mentoring me for my AFF rating said, "watch the student's hands, they will tell you what the student is going to do in three seconds. If you see them tense up, you are in for a ride." But the hands still apply to experienced jumpers, but they are more likely to be more subtle clues. With hundreds of jumps, it becomes a problem solving game. "Why am I nervous", and "What are the warning signs". For me, if I do more than one check of threes on myself, I know my "arousal level" in AZ Airspeed speak, is too high. I find out why... "I am jumping with a student I am worried about", "I have not jumped in two weekends", etc... Once I know why, then I solve the problem. "Ok, I won't let go of the student on this level three until I am comfortable he modified his body to the hand signals given", "Ya it has been two weeks since I jumped, but so what, it feels so natural now I have nothing to worry about." Sticking your tongue out is a sure sign of being able to relax. And as Amazon said, smiling and breathing.... I liked the Brian Germain book, "transcending fear", by the way...

It would be wrong for you to solicit basic advice on these forums at this point in your skydiving career. Once you get a few jumps under your belt, these forums are perfect for discovering questions you never knew you had - then finding out the answers you need from people you trust. I often tell people, "I don't learn answers on Dropzone.com. Instead I learn what questions to ask that I never thought about asking." Once I have a question, I have a few people (some online, some in the real world) that I trust, and we buy a proverbial beer and discuss at the bar. For you, right now, every skydiving "problem" has a simple answer that will be taught to you by your instructors - to keep the information you will be given manageable. Once you gain experience, the simple answers turn more complex and you will have to research what you want to believe. There are many ways to skin a cat, you will find out. So, that is why everyone says the "ask your instructors." But, I can say... I am an AFF instructor and work with many, many first time jumpers... Ya, some of their landings were "comical", but the worst I saw last year was a skinned palm of hand, like a rollerblading mishap. Why do I say this? Well, don't overthink it. Of the 100 first jump course students I had last summer, none of them were superheroes as their day jobs. They ranged from athletic college students to overweight old-farts. They all survived and a lot had very soft landings on their first try. Those who did not, stood up and brushed of the dust and laughed as if nothing went wrong. Not one of them said, "I regret doing this." Most of them were so happy on landing, they could not concentrate on the small stuff, like walking back to the hangar - instead they were skipping, jumping, running, etc. Getting a complete sentence of words out of their mouth was difficult, because every third word was interrupted by, "that was so awesome." And - every one of them had the same worries that you do, and they all survived... So - what you need to do now is - regardless of money - go to the dropzone and start meeting people. When the money, time, or nerves settle, you will be ready to jump.

I think you just posted the most detailed statistics in skydiving canopies... I have asked for this data before from manufactures, and they did not have data to give. How did you measure. GPS? How did you account for airspeed vs groundspeed?

I thought about that... Notice the word "around" in the poll. It allows sub 1 loadings. I am no expert, but the only time I have seen someone really ventrue below 1 enough to be noticed, it was a base canopy - and thus that option is on the list.

Or even other planes at the same DZ. One of the most cool visuals... I jumped out of one of the planes and pulled high with permission of pilots. As I approached 6,000 I saw the Otter on a hop-n-pop jump run. I turned parallel to jump run and flew such that I could recognise my friends who were in the door jumping. Based upon their waves to me, I was confident everyone knew where everyone was. I talked to the pilot afterwords, and he affirmed he knew it was me and knew exactly where I was and soon as I waved back he was comfortable closing the gap. I so wish I had my camera on that jump. I also did a high pull on a day where 6 F16s were flying formations for a parade and had a lot of airspace to themselves. It was not until jump run that the pilot and I were confident it was safe to highpull. He told me where they were at, and where they were going, and under canopy I was able to watch them in the distance overfly the parade.

Great post. I am a little worried about your wording "so you can be placed on the plane appropriately". Being placed indicates you are not in control of your own destiny and assume others will do it for you. At every DZ I have been to, even the big ones, you get to suggest where you want to be, and once off AFF (or whatever) you should know the standard exit order. Why? Well, I have done a bunch of high pulls. Traditionally you get to negotiate with the wingsuiters at the back of the load who wants to get out last... But, due to uppers and the direction of jump run - I have gotten out first too - short of where the first group would have gotten out. I told the first group what I was doing and asked the pilot to give me an "ok to go green light" well short of the normal spot. If you deploy right away and immediately turn off jump run, seconds after you deploy the next group has passed you and then you have the sky to yourself. This can help with your spot depending on the winds, or can make it much harder - all depending on the uppers and the direction of jumprun. Also, you should consider doing some high pulls with friends. It is a lot of fun - and with a few simple rules of engagement, it can be done pretty safely... For an example, "never face me head on to close a gap" and "if we fly next to each other, end cell to end cell, I will be the one that will close the gap beyond 50 feet, you just fly a straight line. We won't (or will) touch our endcells." Etc...

Jarrett, Sometimes it is not about the deployment... I have opted to fly under wingsuit in directions that have taken me far from the landing area. One time in particular, I landed so far away from the DZ that I hitched a ride a few miles down a highway with an elderly couple in a Winnebago to get back to the DZ. Once I saw some pin-prick clouds I wanted to play with, I committed to going the distance. Once under canopy, I needed to go farther to an open area, as backtracking would not have been an option due to trees. I wanted a canopy I could land in a small field next to a highway and had a glide to take me to where I needed to land. Also, after you open in a wingsuit you have additional maintenance to take care of, and flying a relatively flat glide ratio until all the maintenance is taken care of is nice. And, then there is the random-acts of wingsuiting, like the time the pilot chute (ya it probably was my fault) - was bouncing on my legwing. I opted to track/dive half a second to get it off my back very quickly. The deployment speed was still slow, but my head low body position caused a swing on deployment... The video is impressive as you see my foot above the slider between the front and rear riser. The canopy flew nice, but I don't think my Katana would have liked it. How many wingsuit jumps do you have on your 1.7 loaded elliptical? I know someone who loads a fully elliptical 1.9 and wingsuits with it, but then again, he has hundreds of wingsuit jumps.

Rules of the poll: 1) This poll is for people who have a rig they call their "wingsuit rig" or when they picked their "only rig" the canopy choice was influenced by their wingsuiting. 2) Select ONE answer from "Wing Loading" and ONE from "Canopy" - consider them different polls in one thread. You should have two items checked. 3) Post any comments or details.

The 2007 schedule is posted! I am very excited for this season. A team of Air Force Cadets, although not part of the school's Wings Of Blue, contacted me announcing a new team for the season. They just got back from Eloy where they were coached for hours in the tunnel by a few world champions. They are not sponsored by their school, and are paying for all their own training on a college student budget with great goals for the season! Both Mayhem and Levitation are back for 2007! I have no official confirmation from the official USAFA teams (Wings of Blue) yet, but I hear rumors of a team or two. The schedule is posted at: http://www.coloradoskydivingleague.com/sky.htm We have three meets plus playoffs scheduled. The playoff weekend we will be jumping the same dives that are being jumped nationwide! We have weekends of scrambles scheduled also. This year the scrambles and league meets are all on Saturdays - but the scrambles are on different weekends. The fees are the same as last year, but I am going to probably discount the scrambles once I think about it a bit. Last year the teams did not participate, and I really kindly ask that they do this year to inspire more teams to form! Travis

Be able to track efficiently in a straight line while looking in every direction except the direction you are going. When it is time to leave your friends, you need to know where they are.

The publisher is "United States Parachute Association Publications" Copyright 2006 Title "2006 Skydiver's Information Manual" The Author and Editor is the USPA (perhaps cite a committee found on the site)

NO NO NO... I have no problem ripping it... I am simply pointing out, I have not touched a new CD in so long it is a novelty in the same way an 8track in my grandfathers basement was fun to play with when I was a child. More of an editorial on how times have changed in the last few years.

After a few years of Itunes and other sources of music... There was a CD that was not released other than on plastic. I actually received a shipment from a postal carrier of a cardboard box containing the plastic disk. I opened the box and wondered, "now how is the most efficient way to get this on my MP3 server and IPod? I have not ripped a CD in years?" It has been way too long - like years, since music has been delivered to me this way... What will our grandchildren think of this?

Me, never... There was a catus in Eloy that ate a line on my canopy, and I have video of me calling it very mean names, but that does not count. Now, there was that student who did land in the tree the same day you earned your nickname"... Would you please let me have that video?

I respect and appreciate your detailed response. That is fair. There are multiple levels of organizations out there. They range from super exclusive country clubs where business deals are conducted to contractual alliances between specific companies like cell phone equipment manufactures and carriers, to clubs anyone can join for free, to trade groups where anyone who pays dues and follows the ethics of the organization can join. As an apprentice rigger, an avid skydiver, and someone who wants to learn as much as possible - I seek organizations that host trade shows and community groups, that allow all parties to participate on an even playing field so I can get all the information out there, not a filtered subset. Since PIA instead appears to be a members only alliance of manufactures, designed to promote their products and promote the supply chain of raw materials with efficiency, it simply "does not address my concerns as an educated consumer." I am sure the trade shows are awesome, but now I understand more about them. That is my point. I am sure I don't have all the facts why AAD was denied entry. Perhaps it is simple. Perhaps it is controversial... But, now I understand that PIA is a members only club, and I will use the information I get from them with a better incite into the agenda of the organization.

Take the class outside where the obstacles are? Maybe teach this portion directly out of the SIM? I do both. ;-) When we walk the landing area we identify as a class all the obstacles. I ask them to point them out, and they find them. I guess I was not specific... Not the avoidance, but the "it already happened" portion. It is the "if you have to land in a tree, do this." "if you have to land in a powerline, do this." I agree, if we could all land in trees, it would keep everyone awake. I find reading directly out of the SIM is much more boring than me making a fool of myself, making jokes about me, pretending to land in a tree....

Phree, We both have our rights to our own opinions. However, my opinion still is unchanged by your post. My company is a member of 5 trade associations, all designed to promote the industry. While some organizations require a test and continuing education credits, most are free to join by paying your dues, investing resources, and participating actively. They all have proven - you get out of it what you put into it. Listing XYZ association on a company resume, or being listed as a member on the association's website brings little value. Instead, participating on committees, writing submissions for newsletters, and paying for trade show booths, all bring value. Fly by Night Parachutes, in your example, would not gain any benefit unless they participated heavily. If Fly by Night Parachutes did something unethical, bylaws could allow a process to "try the case" in a fair unbiased way (or as unbiased as you could try to achieve). A code of ethics and association rules would prohibit those who don't play the game in the way the association desires. Having a secret ballot process to join a trade organization (or association) moves that association more towards a cartel, away from a unbiased association with the goal to improve the industry (and thus improve sales and all the positive benefits of joint marketing and research resources). You make reference to the USPA group membership program. These are different beasts - as the USPA provides tangible benefits in the terms of an insurance policy and informally regulates. Anyone could write a check and get the benifit without promoting the sport, investing in trade show booths, sharing knowledge, etc. The point. AAD (Vigil) has entered the marketplace trying to break the Cypres monopoly. The free-market economy will determine who has the best product and business plan. I don't think they have done anything unethical at this point - Cypres had 12 years of exclusivity with relatively no new innovations. To me, it seems from the outside, PIA is an Association to promote the self interests of the current members. I might be completely wrong and will continue to research this - however, I don't appreciate the secret ballot vote in nature of any association. Perhaps that is why I was not in a Frat in school.

Terry, Since you are a PIA representative, I am going to go ahead and speak my mind in the way we are allowed to do in a democracy. I thought I knew about PIA, but decided to look for more info on the website. I found this as the PIA mission statement: By this alone, I have lost a lot of respect for the Association. No where does this mission statement talk about improving safety in skydiving for the customers - or promoting the sport. I am discouraged any Parachute Association would not allow a dues paying member to join. I am not a customer of "AAD's" products, and their product may or may not still have flaws, but they have a right to enter the marketplace and try to compete in the Cypres monopoly. What concerns me the most is Executive Session... It appears this Association has a secret (good-old-boys club) that decides who can and cannot join the fraternity. Perhaps there is a valid administrative reason why they could not join that they just have to fix, but what I read into this is a competitor of one of the biggest sponsors of the PIA wanted to join the club and could not. It is clear that the PIA is a business alliance to benefit the current members, not a open trade organization free for all to join. You have your right to form an association with any bylaws or goals. I have a right to choose which ones to join or support. As a Rigger in training, and an avid skydiver and instructor, I have decided that the PIA has systems, bylaws, procedures and missions that I don't appreciate - and therefore as a consumer I won't support your association. I believe that, a trade organization for equipment manufactures with a focus on training and education to riggers and other consumers, should allow all companies to join so as long as they pay their dues and follow a code of ethics. If they should not follow the code of ethics, the company should be able to go thru an open arbitration or appeal process.

Besides the crapola you have received for the double post - you have a valid question. I know of one other instructor seeking a powerpoint type demonstration. I did about 10 FJC, with an average class size of 10, last summer about one every 2 to 3 weeks... Then a few this winter... I have dialed it in to the point I understand when people are going to look sleepy, when people are going to get confused, and when people need training aids. I personally don't want a powerpoint (for my style, it may work wonderful for someone else), because I won't be able to improv when people get sleepy and jump to a new spot in the course. I actually at this point don't even really follow an outline (but check my outline often during breaks so nothing is forgotten) - as I like to take the energy from the class and use it to best teach... Sometimes we skip ahead hours when people start asking questions that are valid and can be taught. But - here is where I wish I had more training aids... The explanation of two out. I use my hands, I use pictures, and even a video... But I wish I could clean that up a bit. The side by side is not on the video we have... Also - every time - when we get to obstacle avoidance (buildings, powerlines, trees) - I seem to get sleepy eyes. Perhaps it is because I hate teaching this section too... But it is a hard one to get focus on. Also - I am a firm believer that training WHY instead of WHAT, helps with understanding and retention. I then quiz the students with "why" instead of "what". Instead of asking, "what does a canopy do after a turn?" I will ask, "A canopy dives in a toggle turn, why?" So, instead of just saying, "If you flare to high, do this..." I expand on the fundamentals of why a canopy does what it does on flare, including the basics of the concept of the "window" and "angle of attack." I was nervous at first I would overwhelm the students and they would not understand. But I quiz the crap out of them every 45 minutes or so on stuff they learned - and every time since I started teaching these basics, the class could accurately and impressively explain back to me the fundamentals of canopy landings, and thus why a toggle whipn turn, or going from full flare to full flight at 10 feet, both are bad scenarios... Weeks later I have asked the students and they still retain... But, I use training aids such as sunglasses to represent the canopy and the sunglasses thing you put around your head to keep them on to represent the canopy lines, and my hand at the bottom to represent a person. I can "land the sunglasses" in the classroom, but I sure wish I had some more training visuals for step by step of a canopy landing (photos from the side with a vertical line to show the movement of the person in the window and the change of the angle of attack.) So, basically what I am saying is - after careful consideration, I have a few things I would whip out my computer for in the FJC, and if you wanna help team up on some of this stuff, I would be interested. Jumpnaked69 on these forums is equally as interested.

It turns out the original poster and I went to the same college... The reason why it was a PE credit when I went to Pepperdine between 1993 to 1997, was because the school has always claimed to try to mold the complete person, spiritually, mentally, physically, etc... I am not religious at all, but the school is very Church of Christ. You have to accept that if you want to go to the school. Granted, from my professors I still talk to often (and I have even gone back as a guest speaker for classes), the new President of the school has made the school even more religious which worries me because sometimes the very religious professors were experts in religion but were not experts in the field they taught... It used to be pretty mainstream except for three semesters of a religion class required - two of which were Christian-centric, and a weekly school assembly of "convocation" that started with a prayer and had religious topics.... So someone like me, who is frustrated with organized religion, could tolerate it knowing I was earning a degree in my field of study that was far superior than my peers at other schools - simply due to class size in my major (two to three students per professor). I won't even try to compare the school to a boot camp in a military school, but at the same time Pepperdine is far different from the other schools where students live off campus, show up only for class, and have no community. The PE requirement was part of a vision, that students quite frankly had to accept, and if they did not accept, then were picking a school that did not meet their goals. If nothing else, the strict rules of no sex on campus required students to burn calories some other way.