tdog

Hmmm.... I have about 100-150ish landings on a paraglider, 800ish on a skydiving canopy, and 40 some odd on BASE canopies (from objects and planes). I just remember, even in some winds on landings, the BASE canopy not wanting to kite. What is your impression of the kite-ability of a BASE canopy? (Note - this is probably very canopy specific. I can tell you that two fully elliptical skydiving canopies behave completely different when trying to "build a wall" then inflate - from personal experience.) And - to the urban jungle... Half is the tool, the other half is the pilot's skill at using that tool. In 2001, when I had about 70 paraglider flights, I went up on a paraglider tandem off a rather well known ski resort in Colorado. (Different world, who would think of a tandem to learn skydiving when you are trying to advance past your "B" licence?) I was on the controls the entire time, the instructor was along to give advice and train me on drills. Landing he definitely helped. It was into a field the same size as a pea pit at the average DZ. Side 1 = building, side 2 = parking lot with cars, side 3 = ditch and city road with trees in the center and signs, side 4 = I70 (4 lane highway). 8 years later I can still tell you the color of the semi truck, and the color of the shirt of the driver of the semi truck, that honked at us as we overflew the highway at 50 feet on final. I also can tell you what the turbulence from a semitruck feels like. Anyway - the point being - BASE canopies are not the only canopies that can land in tight spots (although I agree something designed to sink might be the best). So, the question to you becomes, have you ever built a wall, reverse or forward inflated, and launched or kited, a BASE canopy? I never have, and wonder how well it would work.

I started this thread over a year ago when the canopy was new and no one knew how the larger ones flew. I have owned a larger Katana at 1.4 wing load for now about a year, and put about 300 jumps on it. It is not for everyone, but I love it. While I will do tame 90 degree front risers on landing - I did not get it so much for swooping, but for its all around range and fun handling. Someone I know claimed that the 135, 150 and 170 are not "real Katanas, they changed the design completely, so they fly completely different." This rumor has gone around in a few circles, so I talked with PD to learn. They say that while canopies don't just scale larger by taking the photocopier and hitting 110% to the drawings, so they had to make changes to the design, especially in the slider, to make them open well - the canopy was designed to fly the same and have all the same attributes - and they don't believe the larger ones are different than the smaller ones. A few weeks ago we did the sunset high pull. There were 7 of us total on the jump. Everyone else had Sabre/Safire class canopies in the 1.2 loading. I touched everyone's canopy at least once. We were not doing formal crew, and people sometimes branched away from other groups, so there was a lot of distance to be closed. One of the guys landed and the first thing he said to me was: "That Katana has so much range. I would watch you come to me, bump my endcell, pop over me and bump my other side, then you would see someone in the distance and suddenly zip over to him and leave me in the dust." I purchased a Sabre2 last week as my wingsuit canopy and just jumped it a few times this weekend. I was using the Katana for wingsuits but I had to open higher to feel comfortable, which was not lining up with my long term wingsuit goals that I am training for - which are not aircraft related if you know what I mean. My best wingsuit opening ever was on the Katana, but I also had a one that dived 720 degrees, eating up like 1000 feet while I was unzipping and reaching for things.... Unzipping wingsuits and harness turning is something I have not mastered at the same time. After doing a high pull yesterday on the Sabre2, I will say it is a damn fine canopy too, had a bit more "stay in the sky" range, but I missed the Katana and regretted it was on my sofa. I have learned there are a few things on the Katana even at low wing loadings for elliptical standards (1.4 to 1.5) that still make it a terrible choice for those without experience (duh). Other than the obvious higher speed for landing (straight in, same wingloading, it is noticeably faster) and the diveability for landing swoops that without skill can turn into bad incidents - you have to fly the openings. If the canopy starts going one direction, with the brakes stowed, the canopy likes to keep going that direction. For an example, one of my first flights I pulled a rear with the brakes stowed to head away from a friend. I let up and the canopy kept turning, like another 360 degrees. I quickly learned to master the skill, by using less input and counter turning to stop the turn if need be - but proof you need a lot more subtle awareness and some skills before jumping it. These are not the swoop skills, but the skills that come with just being relaxed and comfortable enough in the sky that you can analyze what is going on realtime and how to fix it and prevent it from repeating... A few jumps later I was on a bigger formation, and I had a 90 left opening, and the person next to me had a 90 right. We were very close. If I would have not mastered the sensitivity of the rear risers with the brakes stowed, it would have been an incident report as the overturn I did a few jumps earlier would have been very bad on that jump. Proof you need to do a few hopnpops and practice all sorts of drills, even if you are just switching designs, not wingloadings. Also, line twists become particularly challenging. I have had only three I can remember. Two were about 1 twist, maybe less, and the G forces of the opening caused me to swing out of them instantly with no input. Another I almost chopped, it was two twists that kicking was not helping and the G forces were adding up. When I gave up kicking, I arched and reached for the cutaway, and just the getting smaller in a ball caused me to suddenly spin out of the twists. I knew exactly where I pulled and exactly where I got out of the twists and dive. I had video running, so I could time the dive. The speed in which the dive was going was near freefall speeds, and while I would not say I was surprised by the speed, I would be seriously concerned about someone who is not current or comfortable in freefall being faced with such a high G force and fast malfunction. So my personal opinion is that the Katana at 1.4 wingloading is a crap load of fun, but has to be respected. It is not a swoop monster velocity loaded 1.8, but it is not a square 1.4 either. I am definitely going to keep it as my workhorse canopy.

I have flown paragliders (Gin Bolero), BASE canopies (Mojo, Dagger, Troll), and skydiving canopies (Katana, Crossfire 2, Diablo, Sabre, Spectre, Stiletto, Pilot, Navigator, etc)... I tend to disagree with your comment, if you are truly talking about ground launching (inflating before leaving the object/ground). But I have been known to be wrong a lot before, so can you explain why you believe BASE canopies would be a tool to ground launch with, on a complicated launch??? (I am just thinking the extra weight of the reinforcements, tail pockets, heavy lines, etc - would make it harder to inflate and keep overhead while running. If you look at shape, lines, and fabric selection, a BASE canopy is the opposite of a Paraglider, which is designed for ground launching. Opposite for a reason????) Now doing any launch that involves a bit of freefall - I agree. But that is not ground launching, that is BASE jumpn!

The Colorado Skydiving League (CSL), as part of the NSL, is proud to announce Mile High Mayhem, a rookie team, Scored a 14 point average last weekend, including a 16 point dive! Two points that make this interesting. #1 - if you look at www.skyleague.com, I believe you will find this is the highest scoring team/round nationwide since 2004. (I might be wrong, but I looked at all the scores) #2 - last year this team started the season with a 0.3 point average. Colorado is proud of our teams that competed at the USPA nationals and scored highly, (2 Airforce teams and Mile High Levitation), but we are equally proud of Mayhem's record day. T.

How complete is your "A" licence progression card? I could see, so as long as tunnel time + previous jumps have given you some skills that have stuck, even with some lapse in time - that in one or two jumps you could have your "A". Most of the stuff on the card is stuff that you can do at a rainy DZ on the ground... If you are not ready for the "A", a bit of tunnel time and 5 or so jumps probably will get you there. This should not be hard. Perhaps you should look at Airspeed's coaching program at Eloy, I know I spent crap loads of time in the tunnel with them and loved their style. You will be ready for your B after they are done with ya.

At some DZs yes. I watched a friend on vacation with me get thru AFF in 3 jumps. At my home DZ - no... We just make it much more challenging for you on the AFFs, so you feel challenged and you learn. Likewise, instead of teaching you how to freefall, we now can spend the time on the important things that save your life, like equipment, maintenance, canopy control, rules, recommendations, etc. The problem with combining levels - over 50% of the stuff you learn is ground school, and 95% of what saves your life is canopy control. These things don't come in the tunnel - but can be taught with much higher quality to people with tunnel time as the freefall is low stress and easy. You should talk to your home DZ to see how they handle this... The problem is the manifest office and management will give you canned answers. You will have to meet your actual instructors and build a relationship... At that point, you can say, "Hey, I think I can do two sets of turns. Can we try?" Your confidence will convince the instructors.

Personally (with the credentials of an AFF instructor, sorry for the credentials dropping) disagree with you 100%. Any student who has tunnel time has a much better progression thru AFF jumps. It is not a guarantee for success, I can name some factors that students still have struggled with after tunnel time, but almost every student I have jumped with, tunnel time makes a difference, huge difference. How much time to get? As much as you want/can afford. The key is to get GREAT coaching while in the tunnel. If you come in as a non-skydiver, sometimes the instructors just want to give you a fun time with minimal progression... Instead, you need to express you are in there to learn - and your coaches will instead of letting you goof off, will keep pushing your limits and learning to the point sometimes your confidence level will be reduced, you will walk out frustrated, and you will not truly enjoy the time... But it is like going to the gym - no pain - no gain. A day later when the results sink in, you will be glad... I don't know why you suggest to hold off until after AFF... The skills you will learn will apply to your AFF jumps as well as your coach jumps (or lack of coach jumps). I believe the tunnel increases success rates. I had a formal conversation with the Eloy staff about this, instructor to instructor, and they confirmed their DZ has increased success rate too (less redo AFF jumps). So, in the long run - tunnel time will likely pay for itself in that you will be paying less in AFF. For sure the tunnel time will pay for itself in you will be doing less coach jumps. And finally, when you are invited on your first 8 way jump with very low jump numbers and are able to stick with the experienced guys (tracking/sit/belly/whatever) - the return on investment will be "priceless".

Worse... I could not register for college courses online because of an admin hold. The admin office was closed when my seniority based slot became open on the system. Minutes later, people with less seniority were allowed to start, and hours later even more... I waited 24 hours for the admin office to open. They told me to go to the cashier. I drove to the office to find out I owed $0.01 on my account. I voiced frustration that all the courses I intended to take were now full, as I threw the cashier the penny I found on the floor. She threw it back and said, "keep the change. Enjoy the classes you can take. I have applied the penny to your account." I wish it was $.69, because if you are going to be screwed, it might as well be fun.

Mine came today: Cockhole Cover Chrome Screw At $3 a piece, ordering 7 was very inexpensive.

I have about 30 hours in the tunnel... So, yes, I like tunnel flying. But to be honest, I prefer "outdoor skydiving". Things you don't get in a tunnel: * Sunset in the distance * Night jumps * Smells in the different inversion layers, even if it is unpleasant cow crap or forest fire smoke. * The cold crisp air. * The weather moving you around, interacting with the planet. * The ocean/mountains/lakes (or replace with whatever earth brings your DZ) below. * The canopy ride (and about 100 sub items under this list) * The exit. * Putting your hand and feet out the door on the way to altitude. * Seeing the earth from above. * Coordinating with the pilot a flight plan that allows you to flock with the aircraft in a wingsuit for a minute or two. * Wingsuts. * The freedom to try something new without hitting the glass * Knowing you can go up on a solo and be alone. No master record tape, no tunnel instructors, no wuffos, watching you goof off. * The ability to track. * The ability to dive to a formation and close 100 yards of distance. * The challenge of outfacing a formation and not having any other indicators in your peripheral vision to help you keep your slot. * The ability to spend $100 and have a whole days entertainment (This will buy you about 5 rotations in a tunnel) * Taking a student up and experiencing their excitement. Now, I am not anti-tunnel, I fly there to learn, and I find it challenging... But I think if all the DZs closed I would quit skydiving and only visit the tunnel once or twice a year. Why? For me the tunnel is a place to learn, so I can apply those skills in the sky. Without the sky, no reason to learn. That reminds me... Time to book some tunnel time, so I can perfect my sit a bit more for the outdoor skydives this winter.

I had tension knots on a troll 290 sqft canopy with fat dacron lines on a hopnpop between the most inner and 3rd brake line above the cascade about 8 inches from the canopy tail. Chopped in a spin. Canopy landed in a tangled mess, but the offending knot was completely gone, no visible marks, and I knew exactly where to look.

I am working/learning in a loft without Internet access. The loft owner has a very complete paper based library and keeps it up. However we both feel it is time to make one place to look for all SB - even if it is just a cheat sheet: "MANDITORY: Any XXX rig made between XX/XX/XXXX and XX/XX/XXXX; needs XXXX to be done". At that point the rigger then can go to the library and find the full SB to be done. The loft owner also wants on this cheat sheet the exact approved wording to put on the packing data card, per the SB, so once completed he can transpose the wording. His goal in this regard is to have the cheat sheet at the back of his clipboard so it is with the rig/card at all times. I was going to start by going to every manufacture and making a cheat sheet by looking at their websites. Two problems, #1 I am afraid I am going to mis one (but I could easily document on the cheat sheet it only applies to the ones I researched) and #2 this loft's business is 75% pilot emergency bail out rigs, that often are made by companies out of business... So, I am seeking any advice or hints where to look from you guys to make this process efficient and accurate. The next question.... If I make this card, do you guys know of any one single place (like a government or private) website where updates are documented so I can keep the list accurate? This is my biggest fear about working in a loft without internet - you have to trust the documentation and have systems to keep it up to date (which is being done currently by a diligent owner).

Eating Big Macs are dangerous. Stay away from them!

Do you have a pilot turning on a green light and other jumpers yelling "go, go, go" on your BASE exit points - because you need this to keep it realistic to a hopnpop. If you invite me on a BASE jump with ya, I will bring my maglight flash light with a green color filter to turn on before your exit, and I will bring an Ipod with the aircraft noise and recordings of people yelling "go" so you can play it while exiting the second I turn on the light. To the original poster... I really enjoy high pulls much more than hopnpops... Plenty of time to let go of the toggles, sit back, relax, enjoy the view... Perhaps a two way (or seven way) with friends with absolutely no plans other than, "lets touch our canopies and fly together"!

Well considering I just put a year and a half of jumps on one page of a log book, I suppose anything is possible. But then again, I have ratings and my D, so I have nothing to gain by logging. "Crap load of jumps, XXX to XXX, wingsuit, AFF, balloons, boogies, high pulls, low pulls, four way video, sitfly, flail fly, a chop, and an ice storm." The manifest at the DZ I visited laughed and accepted it. The reality is - if you have an instructor friend that knows you, trusts you, and sees you jump - they likely will sign off anything you need signed off based upon proven skills, even if the logbook is lost.

What is cool is that I recognised your DZ from the photos... Longer you are in the sport, more DZs you get to visit... I did some hop-n-pops at your DZ two weekends ago.

If you wish to accept a few risks with the gatorz (likely to let in some air, and could break on a bad landing) as some people posted, you MOST LIKELY can jump with them, depending on your face geometry. I have 100 or 200 jumps on them, mostly belly RW or video, but tracking, high pulls, and sit flies too. I have had MORE problems with the flex goggles (the $5 ones you get as a student)... From fogging up on jump run and being distracting, to actually lifting from my face and flipping up to my forehead on a sitfly, they just can be a pain. (you need them loose enough to pull from your face to let in fresh air so no fog, but tight enough not to lift in freefall). I prefer gatorz with a cord to keep them on... Your experience likely will vary based upon many factors. Worst case, if you buy them, you don't have to jump them. By far, they were the most durable and comfortable sunglasses I ever have had. I was so upset when they were stolen out of my duffel bag...

Your point is valid. Gear can be special made or found, instructors can dress for success and/or modify the programs to implement tunnel time or something to make sure the dives go smooth... But... I am more worried about the general athleticism of the individual. It is super rare to find a 300 pound individual that is in great athletic condition, it pretty much is limited to football players that train daily. How well will this person be able to exit the plane and land the parachute? A PLF for 300 pounds of weight will be super critical because that is a lot of weight to break a bone on a crappy landing. I would say, if the guy wants to skydive, he needs to get a bit more active and lose a bit of weight, assuming that he is the average 300 pound guy and not an athlete. I say this with some experience. I went from 240 to 200 to skydive. I had to wait a year after my first desire to do AFF. It was worth it. I did not even call the DZ to ask, they had a posted weight limit, and I respected it.

No, you can never be to safe. But, I fail to still believe that a student that can't find a mile long runway and 22 other flying canopies below them will process a single other open canopy 1000 below them. I still rather be on the ground where I can drive to their off landing or use the radio.

I only have done a few hundred AFF jumps, tons of level 1s, in the last year... And not once have I had a student venture off to la-la land. In the case of a high pull (that started this argument in this thread), even flying a minute or two the wrong way will be recoverable as soon as the AFFI lands. If not recoverable - due to the uppers - it was going to be an out landing anyway. Maybe I am a good teacher on the ground, or something, because your use of the word "usually" indicates the students are often having problems finding the DZ... But we don't leave the plane on a level 1 unless they have seen the landing area and know what it looks like from altitude. Are you mixing up the words "possibly" and "usually"? Does your DZ really have this problem?

I think customers should be proactive with the maintenance, meaning, be there to see all the work done. The better they know their gear, the better they will trust it.

So they're better off jumping alone than with someone who has years of experience? Yes, because the person with years of experience might be a complete moron (I have jumped with a few, they are fun to jump with once you know they are a moron), and pose hazards to the student that the student is not aware are hazards. So many people argue the coach rating is too easy to get. Yet you appear to be arguing to make it easier by allowing someone to jump without being evaluated, and if they have enough of these unevaluated jumps, they get a rating? Technically evaluators are higher than instructors... Here is my list: 1) DZOs make $95 gross per slot on a tandem. They make $23 gross on a fun jumper. No motivation to keep fun jumpers. 2) Tandem instructors can make 18 jumps in a day, at $30 each. $540. Video guys can make 18 jumps in a day at $40 each. $720. AFF instructors can make 6 jumps in a day at $30 each. $180. If you are at all motivated by money: -----a) Will you work as an AFFI? -----b) If you have an AFFI and Tandem rating, which one are you going to promote? 3) The sport is so front end loaded. Gear + AFF jumps = a crap load of dough. DZOs who wanted fun jumpers would do the higher level AFF levels at cost - or maybe at cost if a book of 100 tickets was purchased - or something. $1 more a slot if you got your rating at the DZ, but next to free instruction. Kind of a finance program... 4) "Professional" instructors are too "professional". They don't go out of their way to make friends, instead they see revenue. 5) Instructors are not taught how to sell or motivated to sell. 6) The SIM does not have "have fun" as a TLO for each category, so instructors don't require it. 7) Tunnels are too far apart - and they further separate the good from the bad. "The richer get richer while..." Example, the worlds best freefliers got better because they worked in the tunnel, were given crap loads of time, or purchased crap loads of time. Now the novices are less likely to be invited on the exclusive highly challenging dives unless they can pony up the non-sponsored retail (skydiver) rates. 8) There are no rewards for skydivers (often) to refer friends or promote the sport. Ok, ok, ok - before you flame... I expressed the furthest end of the spectrum in each example above. There is no black and white, yes or no - each DZ will excel at their own thing... But, I don't think the coach rating is the problem in retention... It is the conversion rate from tandem to AFF level 1, and retention rate thru AFF level 7 - where I see the most students quit... If anything, the fresh, young, 100 jump wonders, who are so excited to use their new rating, are the ones who will do anything to see their student succeed, where the old time instructors and skydivers rather just make money to pay the bills and/or jump with their own clan of experienced skydivers where they find pleasure and rewards from the challenges that newbies invited on the dive could not handle...

And you probably should have. You are unwilling to get a "D" or a "Coach Rating", so why should anyone assume you will spend the time required to work with a student? A student just off AFF is still "fragile". They have not learned how to track (well), they are not used to less formal dive flows where altitude awareness is not built in, etc. The coach rating simply proves you can teach the fundamentals, track like hell when they don't, and understand their limits. By your post, you seem to assume they know everything they need to jump with others, but if you have jumped with so many you can see how poorly they can track until they are taught. It is not about jump numbers, but attitude, willingness to teach, core knowledge, and proving a mindset that promotes learning for all involved. I could argue that your 800 jumps is a lot. I could also argue that the 34 on average you do a year keeps you very uncurrent as I have jumped with 34 students in the last month, and I know full time AFFIs who jump with hundreds more a year than I do. See how jump numbers lie? The only truth is a fair evaluation. If you think the evaluators suck, then work to get rid of them. Why not just get your D licence, work with the DZO to prove you are a damn fine example to the students, and jump with them, instead of bitching here. (Ok, I admit I am a bit feisty tonight, search my posts, not my normal style, but I am fed up with the old farts who bitch, and the new blood that bitches, and everyone else who just can't find a win-win solution instead of finding excuses for why the current system is broken.) BTW. I love jumping with newbies too, and I refuse to charge money to jump with them on coach jumps, and I gladly paid to do the coach course because my evaluators and instructors taught me a lot, and remain my mentors a few years after getting the rating and my AFFI. If you think the coach rating or AFFI rating course suck, then you chose the wrong teacher. Back to your (not necessarily Airman1270, but skydivers in general) own fault.

Who is Dan Marino?

My High School (public school that I graduated from in the early 90s) - just signed John Elway as the quarter back coach. Most high schools might have considered him for the head coach or been happy with him as a guest speaker... And when people say, "I don't understand what you mean that you went to a highly competitive school, every school is competitive." - now I have some proof. And, if your reply is, "Who is John Elway", you are equally as unimpressed with sports as I am, and hence understand why going to such a school sometimes was a pain in the ass.