tdog

So, I was glancing thru the gear reviews on this site and found the Pilot to be listed as "elliptical" - while the Sabre2 as "square" and the Spectre as "elliptical", and of course the velocity to be "elliptical". This got me thinking, what is “elliptical”? What is “semi elliptical?” What is “square”? What do these words really mean… Then I search this site and find some people saying that the Sabre2 is more elliptical than the Pilot... Ok, so I became confused…. So, worthy of at least half a brownie point, I opened a perfectly good packjob on my Pilot (which I even paid for because I was on a quick debrief-turn training day that got weathered out) and whipped out my tape measure in the name of learning about my gear... The center bottom seam is 98"... The last seam on the end is 76". That means my canopy is 28% less wide at the end. If I could make 28% in the stock market, I would be happy, so to me, 28% is a pretty big number... So then I went to the Aerodyne website and found the chord measurements… They read 9.41 and 8.01 as max and min… That is a 17% change… They must not measure the bottom seams… So I went to the PD website and found the Sabre 2, in the same size as my Pilot has a chord of 8.61 ft root, 7.92 ft tip… So, the Sabre 2 is only 8% narrower at the ends, while the pilot is 17% narrower - nearly twice as elliptical…The Specre in the same size is 10.10 ft - 9.21 ft… So about 10% narrower…The biggest Velocity measures 7.12 ft - 5.44 ft…. That is a 30% change. The Stiletto measures 9.03 ft and 6.31 ft – a 43% change in chord… (Note, obviously wing loading on the Velocity and Stiletto is going to be much higher, but I eliminated that variable from this discussion.) So, I guess what I am getting at is, anyone want to speak their mind as to what the word “elliptical” truly means to them??? For an example when a canopy coach advises, “don’t intentionally stall an elliptical canopy as they will not recover nicely” – who is he really directing that to, by definition of elliptical? How elliptical does it have to be to be elliptical???? There was a thread a while back that was titled, “50 jumps and jumping an elliptical.” Well, technically the Navigator by PD, a student canopy is not square – so where do you draw the line? If tomorrow a new canopy came out half way between the Pilot and the Velocity in terms of shape, what would you call it and how would you expect it to perform? Do you think the Pilot performs much differently than the Sabre2 because it is twice as elliptical? This is a very open ended question for discussion, knowing the answer is not going to be a cut and dry number... Kind of a spring board for learning here...

Well, I flew in the Perris tunnel in a rain storm and the rain flew up, so, ya, snow would do the same, probably more so. Now I know why they have laundry equipment in the tunnel... To dry the jumpsuit. BTW... I counted the bugs on my motorcycle helmet and my skydiving helmet - and 30 minutes in the tunnel = many hours of motorcycling for bug-splat count, speaking of stuff getting sucked in... Anyone got a full face helmet with battery operated windshield wipers??? Next time I am in the tunnel in a rainstorm, I wanna borrow it...

Thanks for educating me too and clearing that up a bit... I just looked at more than one manufacture's website to see what they call the “hard housings“ in the risers, and it seems 2 out of 2 manufactures call the inserts in the risers "hard housings"... So, this term I guess applies to more than one component on the rig, huh… I guess I never have seen a rig where the tubes from the cutaway handle to the 3rings were not “hard“. Learn something new every day… Thanks…

The hard housings are a rigid tube inserted into the risers on your main canopy. The three ring assembly is held "closed" by a cable that is attached to the cutaway pad that goes thru a loop on the 3rings... Well, past the loop on the 3rings, there is slack on that cable... Soft housings are just pockets in the risers that the slack goes into. Hard housings are rigid tubes in that pocket. The reason for the hard housings... If you main spins up so far as to twist up your risers, the cutaway can become difficult or impossible if the cutaway cable slack is all bound up in the twisted risers. The rigid tubes of the hard housings help protect the slack from getting stuck.... If you have hard housings (tubes) you should inspect them to make sure they are firmly in place, as if not, they could slide down the slack and actually go thru the loop on the 3rings and cause the 3ring to be held shut. I am not a rigger, but I have studied these a lot when I purchased my rig and just recieved a lot more training on them today in a canopy class... So, I invite more experienced people to make sure I did not screw up this answer.

Your tips are almost 4 years too late dude The guy posted his question in September of 2001 Thanks for bursting my bubble that I was 4 years younger... Now I am all confused.

That doesn't sell.. the guy is an ass, obviously he figured this would make for good video to sell to a show like this.. cause his instructors must have ripped him a new asshole after this jump.. and he just showed his family and was too much of a loser to admit he screwed up.. Sure it would sell... Let the guy tell his whole story, as if the equipment was malfunctioning... Then all of a sudden, show how he really screwed up and how wrong he was... Ya, I know what you are saying... Sensationalism always sells over the truth... I just thought it would be funny to see this guys facial expressions if the interviewer called him out on his “misconceptions” of how the dive went.

No, what is amazing is the fact the commentator does not say, "So Scott, why did you pull your cutaway handle??? Actually, it appears, Scott, that the equipment worked just as designed..."

I did what other people recommended... I jumped the same load with a friend who was a tandem, but gave the normal separation... We had fun on the ride up, and I was there when she landed... It was fun and I would recommend it... Any time a friend of mine is going to do a tandem, expect to see me on the load, just leaving well before they do... Travis

You know, my dog's weakest link is not looking across the formation. Everytime he turns his head out, he no longer stays relative...

Oh.... Ok... If you say so Me thinks I know of at least a few leaks in the skyventure tunnel I was in... The proof - there was a inlet vent with shutters in the team training areas - and when the tunnel was running you could feel the air pretty good rushing in to compensate for the air the tunnel sucked out of that area... This is not to say the tunnel sucks (well in terms of quality) - just that there are a few leaks here and there... Oh, a 747 leaks too, just much slower than the pumps that keep it pressurized.

Today was not that cold… I actually thought we are warming back up some… (Ok, shoot the glass half full guy). Could you imagine flying in the CO tunnel, say on a -10 degree winter night. Me thinks the re-circ is *required*!!! Oh, about the cooling for the summertime... Nothing says a re-circulating tunnel can't draw outside air to cool it down too, although the outdoor 100 temps will be useless... Commercial office buildings use “make up units” to draw outside air in Colorado to cool them whenever the outside temp is colder than the inside temp and they want the inside temp to go down…. I also overheard someone who knows about the design of this exact tunnel talking about the fact that the tunnel will be effectively pressurized, and the second the tunnel is turned on, the heat will raise a few degrees just because of the increase pressure in the air. They started giving very specific numbers… Think lapse rate... 3-5 degrees for every 1000 feet, so if the tunnel pressure changes the same as of 1000 feet of altitude change, which is not much in the terms of pressure, expect a few degree sudden warmup... Now, I think the Perris tunnel is under a vacuum, since the motors are at the top pulling air… That would cool it down some… Anyone taken an altimeter into a tunnel before to see the pressure changes??? You know they are there, you can hear the air whistling thru the building finding the leaks…. I just don’t know how much…

Ya it looks like the people who "rescued" her out of their front yard are going to get a dream come true also...

1 time in a “packing class”. 1 time with a friend helping me on every step. Jumped the next one where my friends watched from afar. Then I packed the next 4 jumps that day. After the second packjob I lost the “I packed it, I wonder if it will work” fear. Apprehensive… 105 jumps - no reserve rides, and I am still here. But - I did not stick with my dive flow plan, it was a solo after all… I pulled earlier than planned, and gave myself terrible body position, making a perfectly good packjob (on my side I was able to watch it come out perfectly) turn into bad line twists well after it was deployed… First line twists (8 full 360s, ya I counted as it spinned up), and the stubbornness of not wanting to chop my first packjob caused me to kick out of them with great aggression and confidence, so it was not a big deal. My advice, put together a dive plan for your first packjob that you will stick with, pick an altitude you want to pull at, and don’t change this in the air because of mind games… I would even recommend a few practice touches so you know your body position is good, and when it is time to do it for real, you can do it smoothly and perfect. Of course. Here is a little secret... Packing is easy, once you learn the steps and tricks. If you find an awesome friend at the DZ who knows about gear, you can learn how to do it very quickly... Then you can watch friends and spy on their packing and learn more tricks…

Ya, I really felt it a lot... But, I tip toed the landing after popping up, so the "mistake" was completely within a safe landing... I think the bigger "danger" is going up to 5,500 for the first time ever or after a few day trip to sea level... That is where I found myself landing hard and thinking all of a sudden things were going much faster... I.E. coming home sucked until I re-dialed it in. Kind of like when you drive cross country... When you go 75MPH for a while, it feels normal... Then you get a cone-zone and have to go 55MPH. That feels slow for a while, then feels normal... Once you get back to 75MPH - you feel like you are going real fast, until you get used to it... That is what it felt like for me to go back and forth... Just add a PLF or two at the higher altitude.

I think it is the other way around. Sea level; talk about a slow landing... I have on video my first sea level landing. I gave it a strong mile high flare and all of a sudden I was way above the ground, thinking, s&^%, where did all that power in the wing come from. My sea level friends laughed so hard at me as I was popping back up going for a ride when I should have been landing.

What was your observation of the winds? More than 15 MPH? What were the low and high end speeds of the gusts???

I will try that too. Thanks for the advice.

I think everyone has said 180 from the center... Your question was directed towards seeing others as you break off: I had a close call on a track, so I know your fear of track, track, track and pull hoping you got where you needed to be. I hated not knowing where I was relative to the others… After that close call I still do the same 180 from center, but as I am tracking I look over my shoulders (both) and quickly make sure others are doing the same. I found in the last 10 jumps I was able to keep tracking stable and on course while checking quickly the "rear view mirror" to make sure we all got our angles right in the first second or so of the track. A quick glance is all it takes… This skill came in real handy on a dive that at breakoff really had no formation as we had a burble incident and I was being rodeoed. Somehow I was left with less than 180 for my "quadrant" - so by checking over my shoulder I was able to split the difference and get equally as far away from the other too. On that dive, I spent most of my track looking back and forth at the other two correcting heading more than once. Since I had practiced it on non-rodeoed skydives, when the shit hit the fan, I had the skill in my bag of tricks to quickly use. I will let the more experienced guys chime in and tell me if I am doing something right or wrong, but so far, it has worked well for me and certainly increased my awareness.

Dude, my first comment is, go to the DZ, sign up for the class, and do it... If you read these forums, you will get overwhelmed at first and perhaps too intimidated to actually do it. I waited a long time to skydive because I read the requirements of each of the AFF levels and thought, "I am a clutz, I could never do that..." Your questions: 1. Canopy... With the right teachers, it is easy and fun. Don’t worry about it… Even if the radio fails, you will have the training to land safely. 2. Cost... The poster before told you some fair prices... But here is a perspective: When you buy a car, you don't think about the cost as cash you have to lay out all at one time, you think about monthly payments... If you don't have the cash, low interest rate credit cards and/or a loan from the bank (assuming good credit) - is not such a bad thing. When you sell your rig, it will hold a lot of value, more than a car it seems at times, so it is really an investment... I started skydiving the same month my 4runner was paid off in full. The cash I am spending on skydiving is about the same as my old car payment. So as I have told my friends... Ya it is a shit load of money... But it is less money than my car payment, and my car has 65,000 miles on it and I rather drive it until it has 120,000 miles than buy a new car now and not skydive... What is more fun, a new car - or skydiving??? When someone told me that our sport was not mainstream because of the cost, I replied, “Bull. Look at how many 18-35 year old males own sport bike motorcycles. Similar risk level, similar adrenaline sport activity, and SIMULAR COST to a rig – often times more!!!” So, where there is a will, there is a way. But before all that – goto the DZ, make a few student jumps thru the AFF program, see if ya like it, then worry about the cash and equipment… As the Home Depot tag line says, “You can do it, we can help.”

If you look at my jump numbers, you can see I am a novice. If you double my skydive numbers, you have about how many times I have flown/landed a fabric wing, as I learned to paraglide before skydiving. Jumps 8-50 were on a Spectre loaded 1 to 1 or 1.1 to 1, depending on the rig I used... Never a hard landing, even at higher altitude. (except one crash that was turbulance related and had nothing to do with the canopy other than I was able to save a broken bone by being on a tame wing) The rigs I rented were configed for student use, so the brake lines were longer to prevent stalls. Even without taking a wrap on the lines, it would shut down for me... I did notice I liked the 1.1 to 1 a little better, I could feel a little more power the extra speed gave. Openings were great, and I learned to pack on a Spectre and found it very easy to pack. I now own a Pilot, which I am equally happy with, but it feels a bit more sporty in the air, but I am not one to give a full review (yet) other than to say if a Spectre treated me well on the very beginning of my learning curve, and my instructors gave it a thumbs up too, I think it is a forgiving canopy to fly at lower WL..

Point 1 - farting in king airs vs. otters... I learned that in the otter there is an emergency exit across from the door. At least the otter in San Diego had an exit there... If you sit by the door - you are protected from farts - kind of like a protective layer of fresh air leaking thru the seals... It also protects you from your own farts, so you can fart all you want, as long as you can keep a poker face and blame someone else. Point 2 - recirculating... I was in the Perris tunnel when there was an unfortunate incident between the tunnel and one of our furry friends that was naturally born with feathers and wings... I found feathers in my jumpsuit a month after the incident. Me thinks I rather smell farts going in circles than the alternative of feathers and dead birds. ;-) Travis

If it stops snowing here, I want to jump. ;-) Next time we are at the DZ - I will have to take a peak at your rig. The skydiver in me at first typed, "Sorry about the CRW canopy." But, then deleted that and now am typing, "Sorry about the job." I saw the raw video of one of the tandem guys last fall pull his hookknife instead of the golfball on the tandem rig at pull time as they were close to one another. He moved the knife in front of his face and looked at it like he had never seen one before (clearly thinking, what should I do with this now that I still am in freefall?). Then he quickly decided to put it in his mouth (blade far away from the body) so he could free the hand to pull... I guess with many thousand jumps you don't get that amped - I probably would have thrown the thing.

Thanks for the info... Not wordy at all, makes sense.. I know a lot of people that keep their knife on their jumpsuit, but I don't like that, because I don't want to be tied to a (my) jumpsuit to have the knife... I rather it be somehow, someway "with" the rig, because I know I am not leaving the plane without it.

The top dogs (assuming you mean the ones that can do the top dog things with their body in the air, not just jump numbers or age) will be pushing their own limits all the time... Their perspective is going to be hard-core and advanced... I know a few people like this who don’t have time for *me* because they are so focused on improving themselves. Ya it is self-centered, but you got to respect that they are working so hard on *them*. The key is to find friends who are willing to share, who might not be the top dogs, but still are better than you... I have a friend who taught me 50% of what I know in skydiving, especially on the gear/equipment use side, including how to pack. Once I pushed his limits of knowledge on packing, then I started asking the riggers the more difficult "what if" questions... My friend had less than 250 jumps and less than 2 years in the sport at the time. I was his first "student" with his new coach rating. Who owes the beer on that one??? Me thinks we were even. My other friend who taught me the other 50% for my A card had thousands of jumps and just loves working with students… Notice how I refer to these coaches as my friends, because we are… The best teachers are the ones who want to teach, not the ones that have all the info... You can look the info up or ask someone else, you can't look up how to have the desire to teach. The best friends are the ones who want to jump with ya, not the ones who see you as a way to make money from their coaching... That is my opinion. Don't expect

I did a search and found a lot of the stuff was not rig specific or a little old... Does anyone have cool ideas for placement of a hook knife on the Vector3. I was thinking under the mudflap (kind of like Icon ships from the factory), but the mudflaps are pretty contoured on the Vector3, in that they are narrower on the bottom than the top. Question 1) So, Vector3 owners, post your hookknife pics to help me out here - or just tell a good story about it... (And, if you did put it under the mudflap, do you have it in a sleeve/pocket of some sort that is sewn inside the mudflap to protect the other goodies under there?) Question 2) There are a few new hookknifes on the market, or at least some that don’t have many hits on the older discussions. Anyone got a favorite for one that is small but will work when needed?