dorbie

Please quote & reply correctly, you have to intentionally edit the reply block to have bad formatting like this and it screws up subsequent replies.

If you're going to quote a multi-quoted mess at least do it correctly.

Millions of legal immigrants work in the USA for years without a green card, it takes a legally obtained visa to do so. Jumping the border confers a Z visa skips all earlier processes and permissions. They can then apply for a green card at their leisure. Saying this doesn't skip the queue is a stretch. A Z visa lets someone who jumped the border work legally pretty much without restriction unlike many other visas, H1 or L1 have serious restrictions on the employee and employer including the inability to apply for a Green Card without a status change, a Green Card lifts these restrictions but is still a renewable visa (permanent has become a misnomer). A Z Visa is clearly skipping the queue.

Aside from missing the point of my post your own posts refute your false claims. Do you at any point intend to make a post addressing the topic here or are you simply going to focus on attacking posters who you disagree with in ways you refuse to specify? Feel free to make a cogent argument addressing the immigration bill at any time.

Maybe it wouldn't be so amazing if you looked into it, start with the price of corn or Mexican farmers and go from there. Surely such an issue would affect the price of corn to Mexican mills and flour to Mexican bakers favorably? Ask Mexican truckers what they think of NAFTA. This is more complex than a single datapoint and is ultimately a net gain for Mexico. P.S. but hey go for it, get enough of your countrymen to repeal it tomorrow if you like.

You once made the minor error of thinking that I was a USA native but you also made MAJOR error of assuming because I opposed illegal immigration that I was some parochial untravelled xenophobe, when the opposite is closer to the truth. This makes it clear that you have a massive emotional reaction to this issue and you should consider what this says about your own FEELINGS and how these impugn your own THINKING on the topic. As for your own conclusions about my feelings, they are inane self-serving drivel and ignore the context of the discussion where I assumed you were an immigrant who habitually attacked the USA, you also got the followup wrong.

They're trying to pretend this is what the bill says, but like I said, it is misleading, Z Visas begin without DHS certification of the border security measures.

Nor is that what he said. But it IS fun to exaggerate other people's words then knock down the argument they didn't make, isn't it? I hope you realize it is impossible for you to make that statement sarcastically.

Says the person who thinks international war is bad for the US economy Please learn to quote clearly and make it clear who you are responding to when replying. I might get the impression you appended this irrelevant drivel to give the false impression you're replying to me simply to falsely impugn. It is quite amazing to hear someone claim that NAFTA does not help Mexico and Mexican labor. But none of this gives the USA responsibility for citizens in Mexico, feel free to exercise self-determination or howl at the moon, whichever you prefer.

Aren't you the same guy who showed his sophisticated understanding of the world outside the U.S. when you called Vancouver B.C. a "shithole across the border"? That is a deceptive claim highlighted by the fact that I am not American. I'm a legal immigrant from Europe. I think I understand quite a bit about the world outside U.S. borders and immigration into the USA. I once made the opposite error about you so you're excused. Do you intend to address the point being made instead of making inane attacks?

Z visas will begin before DHS certifies border security measures have been met. Immigrants do not have to leave to get a Z visa, which will allow them to stay and work indefinitely (4 year renewable), but leaving is hardly an issue since a z visa lets you return at will. As for jumping the queue, they did that when they crossed the border illegally, the rest is semantics. They're here working and never applied for legal status, a Z visa grants that status, if you think that is not skipping the queue then you are denying the very nature of illegal immigration and what legalization of it does.

More Hitchens on Falwell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKkOSMaTk4

I keep my eyes open while driving, you might call that looking prophylactically. In fact I would. However being pissed off at a driver that hasn't yet cut you off is simply a waste of energy. Saying we should only be concerned when we wake up and have to deal with the consequences of bad legislation is a very weak position to take. But go for it, it does leave me wondering why you bother to post in this thread, are you prophylactically posting? This legislation is pending and one chamber has passed this bill so it's onto the next, akarunway is absolutely right to react to this, pretty soon it'll be too late to do anything, and regardless of the final outcome he absolutely has cause to be pissed at those who proposed, negotiated and voted for this.

American's aren’t eliminating other people's jobs but the US government sure do a good job of eliminating basic levels of living for Mexicans through trade agreements. Well they're Mexicans, the various trade agreements do more to help Mexico than harm it, and they're the Mexican government's responsibility not the USA's.

Why would any sane or reasonable person think a person being captured or killed in war is entertaining?? I'm suspecting some black humour behind this statement. Very unamerican of you not to ignore black humor when it suits you. Cut it out and climb on your high horse or they'll have to deport you. I doubt I'm understanding you here - I'm about unamerican as they come; I'm Scottish. As for deportation - I'm back in the UK fairly soon. Either way - wibble. I know that, hence the comment.

I keep my eyes open while driving, you might call that looking prophylactically.

It grants them a Z Visa if they were here before Jan 1st 2007, which allows them to stay and work legally. Probationary, pending background checks, then 4 years renewable from which point they can apply for a Green Card. Some of this would kick in only after DHS certifies that the border security provisions but the wording is sneaky, the Z visas pretty much start immediately. Other existing legal work Visas are very similar, e.g. H1 and L1 visas.

American's are not eliminating other people's jobs it's the other way around. Illegals have already jumped ahead of the queue. Are you saying if they're allowed to stay and work you're gonna oppose this bill? I doubt that, it'll take you about 5 seconds to contort such that you think the Z Visa is a great idea.

Good move, good move. But you should have realised that by boxing in your adversary on an opposing non linear square you leave me the option of utilising the diagonal counter rabbit and I reach Mornington Crescent! But on a more serious note (and one that will make sense to those without knowledge of British radio comedy quiz shows) I do remember someone here actually saying that rainbows were proof of the flood - because after the flood God created rainbows to promise that he wouldn't do it again - and we have rainbows - and that meant the flood really happened! Yes I almost added weight to my argument with the rainbow evidence but ultimately felt that rainbows merely distracted from my searing unicorn flood proof which should be more than enough to convince anyone. I remember that remarkable rainbow discussion since I participated. As you say, Rainbows were called evidence since they're God's promise that the flood will never happen again, it was claimed that there were no rainbows prior to the flood. It's the kind of thing kids are taught in Sunday school every weekend. Only a wicked child would argue with their kindly old Sunday school teacher. Are you a wicked child jakee?

Silly questions. Everyone knows that the lack of unicorns today is proof that the flood happened and Noah saved everything else. Go on, prove me wrong, show me a unicorn, you can't do it can you?! huh? SEEEEE!!!

But just who will be saying "I told you so!"?

This is an impressive excoriating attack on Falwell by Hitchens. http://www.reason.com/blog/show/120242.html I liked the aside about Falwell skipping the rapture being found on the floor of his office.

Excellent, redemption is imminent.

No more appeals but she gets reduced time in a celebrity cell. http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/17/paris.hilton.ap/index.html It seems like she got a lawyer who stopped blowing smoke ...... and did her some good.

Why would any sane or reasonable person think a person being captured or killed in war is entertaining?? I'm suspecting some black humour behind this statement. Very unamerican of you not to ignore black humor when it suits you. Cut it out and climb on your high horse or they'll have to deport you.