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CCharger wrote about Amazon If you are tied to dock in a boat with a lot of keel you can feel tidal flow. It heels the boat a little bit (roll axis tilt). It also strains or slackens certain dock lines. You cant feel slow tides' vertical acceleration, but you sure can feel the current push under the right conditions. Ya feel me bro? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farf wrote Reminds me of my high school English teacher who screamed at the whole class: "I just want you to THINK dammit." She went on to rant: "You are just SPONGES. You soak up what I say and when I ask you for your own thoughts you just squeeze the sponge and give me back my own words." If she werent an old straightlaced white haired lady I'd have wondered if she had snorted a little too much coke or speed. Farf, if we find the chute you'll be amazed at how quickly the Kenny and Duane stories will morph to account for it. I want that chute. What a fine Cooper momento it would make. If Jerry finds it maybe I can trade a slice of my Cooper twenty for a piece of the canopy. With today's price of gold Jerry is probably too busy mining to post here. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No problem, a warm welcome to the forum! I jumped from a DC 9 jet from 14,000 ft. You do get a fwd throw but your forward velocity bleeds off rapidly due to body drag. I freefell to 3000 ft. By the time I was at 10,000 feet it looked like I was falling straight down. Forward throw wont be much of a factor in the Cooper jump. I watched later DC 9 jumps from the ground. I'd make a rough guess that jumpers forward throw after exit was less than 1000 yards. Just a very rough guess. It can be calculated if you want exact numbers. I was told that on my jump we were doing 180 knots. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

True. Bones, skulls, and junk is dragged up but bodies very rarely and only if they are very recently submerged. Dungeness crabs, which are abundant off the Columbia River, are EXCEEDINGLY effective scavengers. You can't believe how fast they can strip a carcass. They somehow convert all that decomposing junk into the very best tasting crab meat in the world, way better than King or Snow crab in my opinion. Dungeness crabs are the garbagemen of the NW coast. They can smell something edible from far away and they will race (sideways) to munch it. Finding just the rig still wont tell us who Cooper was. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

CCharger wrote Not necessarily so. Drag boats (bottom trawlers) bring up all sorts of stuff. My buddies who fish drag boats have pulled up munitions, airplane parts, bodies, etc. The fishing vessel Pam Bay fishing out of Coos Bay Oregon pulled up a WW 2 Japanese mine. The parachute rig is big enough to be captured in the net mesh. Some productive fishing grounds are scoured regularly, with boats eventually dragging just about every square foot. If the bottom is very rocky then it isnt likely to be trawled. The sediment fan out of big river mouths usually creates big sandy areas, but who knows where a body might end up. Decomposing bodies can become almost neutrally buoyant and in that state can travel far with ocean currents. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Meyer Louie wrote Funny. I am a licensed commercial fisherman. I grew up in the trade, which was my Dad's. I worked my way through school skippering commercial fishing boats. We always joked that the fisheries commissions who made the rules had no idea what really happens at sea. Looks like we might have been right. I remember some seasons being closed or dramatically limited after govt researchers did test fishing and found stocks severely depleted. In many cases they were dead wrong. They just didn't know how to find the fish. Cooper as fish food... I realize that it's a real possibility but I hate that outcome. I want a storybook ending not a fatal splash in the night. The chute, container and harness are big durable items. Some of the hardware would last for centuries. Why have only small things been found? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

"No jumping EVER." Hmmmm... Sounds like a challenge to me. I think I see canopies in her future, perhaps next summer. What are the legalities? The only off DZ jumps I've made we're from a balloon and a glider. Does that parachute symbol on the sectional mean we can jump there without FAA hassles? I wonder how many other "phantom DZs" exist on maps? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Blevins book is free. No cost. How can you characterize that as a commercial exploitation? I don't understand the venom. Blevins somehow is a venom magnet. I just don't feel the pull. You, Georger and many others do. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Has anyone lined up the holes in bills to see if they register to form tunnels when stacked? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote I hate to tell you this Farf, but I was the night clerk at the Beverly Hills Hotel back then. The "important meeting" Raquel had that night she rejected you was with Bob Knoss. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Good catch. I wonder what DZ this is? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Rubber bands vary greatly. I have had rubber packing bands (used to secure packed canopy suspension lines) rot in a couple of years, while others have remained in good condition for 30+ years. Neither had any significant exposure to UV and both were stored in the same place. The deliberate human plant explanation for the Tena Bar money just doesnt seem logical to me, but I can't rule it out. The money doesnt prove Cooper died, so why would he plant it? It stirred up a fading story and got people abuzz about DBC again, not a good thing if you are a living fugitive. Sailshaw counts the Amboy chute as a Cooper artifact, but I've seen no evdience that supports that conclusion. I sure would like to see what's at the lower end of the risers. The finders of the canopy apparently cut a lot of things to extract it from the ground. I wonder what remains buried? The hardware that connects the risers to the harness would tell me a lot about the rig that was used with the canopy and whether or not it could have been one used by DBC. If there are no risers and just opened connector links I'd be willing to bet big odds that the chute wasn't Cooper's. Those military links are a BEAR to undo if they've been installed for a few years, often requiring a jig and a mallet or a press. No way Cooper could have done that in the wild. Only a screw holds the two link pieces together, but they are a tight interference fit, some metal galling occurs and as a result they are VERY difficult to get undone. I found it very odd that the FBI speculated that the 1946 mfr date canopy had been jumped in 1945 by a miltary pilot. It made me wonder what they were thinking or trying to convey. It sure wasn't a high IQ conclusion. Personally, I have strong doubts that a 1946 twill (non ripstop) canopy would be packed in an emergency bail out rig in 1971. Twill canopies were notorious for catastrophic failure in high speed openings. A small material failure would propagate into a huge rip. That's why skydivers stopped using military twill reserves in the 60s. Some folks died due to twill material rips. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Another great Farf poster for my refrigerator. Thanks. How did you get the progressively shredded money images? So imagining DBC, against all odds, landing in the Columbia. At that point it doesn't matter if you are under a canopy or go in as a no pull. Your life is over. What a bummer. I will assume that didn't happen. I want a clever resourceful folk hero, not a splat or splash in the night. I like Georger's analysis that showed how unlikely a Columbia landing was. I am free to pick and choose my evidence aren't I? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nope. I remember Calistoga, Santa Nella, Pope Valley, Santa Rosa and a few other NorCal DZs now gone, But I dont recall fish farms near any of them. Maybe someone else knows. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am up for having my DBC twenty tested. Any specific suggestions? Too much focus on the Dan Cooper comics. We know Cooper didnt speak French or Canadian, no accent was reported. A brave innovative crime like that had to be conceived and executed by an American, and a Bourbon drinker at that. He didnt ask for Cognac, he asked for Bourbon. Here is the comic that inspired him, Smilin Jack. Yes, that's Tina in his arms as he decends, looking forward to a life with money and hot stew. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

G wrote: I remember that dialog well Georger. The "rust" outline looked suspiciously like an outline of common parachute harness hardware (which is made out of steel) , but I was probably smoking hopium and seeing what I wanted to see. Great find on the publication. That NOAA paper is waaaay over my head, but the authors could probably look at the Tena Bar Twenty photos and give an educated guess as to what made the holes. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

True! I am reminded that I am not a scientist, just an engineer. We assume starting conditions all the time. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

G wrote If only they succeeded... sigh. Sometimes I wonder if thinking is really teachable. I want to know what ate those holes in my Tena Bar Twenty. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farf wrote Nope, there isnt. I have ZERO evidence that proves Cooper lived. The canopy was huge though, over 600 sq ft of nylon, which was either white or had multicolored high viz panels. There was about 644 feet of suspension lines too, lot of snag potential Even if the canopy stayed in the pack, the rig is pretty big. Even today they find intact canopies in submerged WW2 aircraft wrecks. If Cooper went in as a no pull, I'd have expected some evidence from his rig to be discovered. JT thinks the unopened rig is out there somewhere in the Washougal, waiting to be discovered. Crooks dont discard cash. The presence of thousands at Tena bar suggests to me that Cooper may have gone in as a no pull. Its also possible that he became separated from the money during the jump. That happened to one other skyjacker who survived the jump but landed penniless. That was one honest farmer that turned in the cash loot. Like I said, the Tena bar money drives me nuts. It puts a constraint on the equation solution that looks so appealing, but in the end it proves nothing about who DBC was or what happened to him. When the money was originally found I thought BINGO, soon the case will be solved. Boy was I wrong. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If DBC went in as a no pull I think he would have been missed. A landlord, a postman, a relative, somebody might have connected the dots. There was a TON of publicity right after the event. Everyone was wondering who DBC was. If someone who bore some resemblance to the FBI sketches went missing right after the event, I think it would likely have commanded some attention. It's pretty hard to just disappear one day and not have inquiries start. Cooper wasnt planning on Norjack being fatal, so I doubt that he would have done all the necessary prep for a clean unnoticed death. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I dont see any ink transfer on my TBT, (Tena Bar Twenty). Did anyone come up with a good explanation for the holes in the money? Aquatic borer worms or some land animals? It seems to me that the holes might give a clue as to whether they were created on land or underwater and how long the currency resided in that environment. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Good post Farf. Soooo nice to see the forum focusing more on evidence and less on personalities. I have taken you criticism to heart and wont repeat my Snowmman clemency plea for a while, not here, not now. I won't point out how much Snow could enhance the dredge discussion. I used to fish out of harbors on the CA coast that had frequent dredging ops. I was always amazed to see BIG rocks make it through the dredger pump and into the spoils. You could hear them coming down the pipe. I guess a centrifugal pump can handle a lot of debris without damage. Centrifugal flow jet engines were known for the ability to eat FOD and spit it out without self destructing. The Tena Bar money mystery eats at me constantly. Its the itch I cant scratch. KISS is the right approach though. It usually is for most itches. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung justifiably wrote: We don't need no stinking controls, randomized double blinds or any of your corrupt ancient oppressive procedures. We are young, we are free, we have thrown off the shackles. When we know we are right, that is enough. And we are 100% sure that we are right most of the time. Carry on Farflung. You have the go codes. Crank up the ECM and press onward. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote The FBI could track Duane's time at prisons, but he wasnt always an inmate. He probably did travel to that area sometime in between his numerous sentences. That doesnt connect him to Norjack, just to a region. Huge difference. The FBI, like any govt bureaucracy, makes mistakes from time to time. Not every mistake is part of a conspiracy to hide the truth. As far as trying to connect Duane with a chute by claiming that he jumped up and shouted Geronimo in your presence, that just doesnt cut it. I've been a parachutist for 44 years and I have NEVER heard anyone yell "Geronimo" when exiting an aircraft. The only place I've heard that said is in war movies. Maybe some airborne or smoke jumpers can chime in. Amazon, you ever hear "Geronimo"? The most common exit utterance I've heard is "go" if in a group or "bye" if solo. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No digging at Tena bar for me, Farflung's harsh reality warning has cured me of any desire. Maybe I'd reconsider if I could dig with an air conditioned John Deere backhoe with a differential GPS coupled autopilot, but none of that hard work stuff. Some of the Cooper rig hardware could last for a century or more. I just hope when its found, someone realizes what it is. I'll just take my Tena Bar twenty to a "currency whisperer", or one of those Langley VA guys that stares at goats. I bet the CIA already did this and found out that Cooper was one of their own. After that it was a concerted campaign of disinformation, which so far has worked perfectly. I ponder my Cooper twenty and try to figure out how it got to T bar and by who's hand. I ask it lots of questions, but so far it just ignores me. I need a pro to talk to it. As the band Chicago sung: "Can you dig it?" "Yes I can" "and I've been waiting such a long time for the day..." 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.