Mockingbird

Of course not. Sorry, you've lost me. I've never said anything like this. There's no reason that people shouldn't be told about condoms, etc. But your reserve is a last resort. You don't make it a habit to deploy your reserve unless you're in trouble... or unless you assume that you're too morally weak to deploy your main. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I disagree. Once again. sexual self-control isn't unrealistic. And no, your draconian laws and moral enforcement aren't necessary! Boy, you make it sound like we, as human beings, are so morally weak and helpless that we'd need LAWS in order to curb our passions! Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

See, I just disagree with you about this. Being monogamous hasn't always been unacceptably low. People sleep around because society says it's OK, "If it feels good, do it." If it became unacceptable, as it used to be (not that no one did it, but it was NOTHING like what you see today), people would show restraint. I especially disagree with the idea that "people sleep around because they are people." This is a low view of human beings. We can be better than that. We are capable of being honorable and ethical and commited. But if you tell people, "Well, you're just people-- basically animals without self control or scruples-- you'll want to have sex with who-knows-how-many different people, and you may want it so badly that you won't be able to resist; so just go ahead and do it, but don't forget your condom!", then they'll think: "COOL! I don't have to try to be a better person." Which I guess is what you believe. (I mean, that's what it sounds like you believe.) Human beings are capable of being and doing better. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Right. It's too bad that so many put their right to an opinion ahead of tact. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

The point of your analogy was what? Or course it did. Used to be incurable. But now we have antibiotics, condoms, and education. It is avoidable, but can be treated, if contracted. However, I stand by my original point--- that a monogamous sexual relationship (you know, as in commitment) is the only sure prevention of STDs, provided neither enters the relationship already infected. (edited to add: "of STDs") Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I'm very serious. The history of syphillus has nothing to do with worthy expectations. All you're saying is that not everyone lived up to society's expectations; that goes without saying. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Abstinence is asking far, far more. Expecting abstinence until marriage didn't use to be asking or expecting too much from people! When society started telling people, "If it feels good, do it," self-control and sexual integrity went out the window. The results-- huge increase in std's, AIDS, heartache, distrust. It could be so much better than this. I think it's worse to tell people you can trust condoms 100% and give them a false sense of security. (I'm not willing or able to discuss any specifics concerning the Vatican. I'm not Catholic and I think the concept of safe sex and marital fidelity is more important than who-said-what.) Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Are you saying that marital-sex-only is an unrealistic goal? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

But the quesiton might be: is the Vatican's morality "outdated"? From society's viewpoint, probably Yes. But from the viewpoint that, to them, really counts, No. Now, as for what they tell people, I've also heard doctors interviewed on various news shows and documentaries say that condoms help a great deal, but they aren't foolproof, even in the most careful hands; so you can't say they are 100% trustworthy. I noted that you said "properly used"--- but that's asking a LOT from some people!! Also, they need to be properly made, properly stored, etc., etc., etc. So in the end, they may or may not succeed in doing their job. The best solution to AIDS and other STDs is abstinence; i.e., married sex only... 'course getting past the point where even a marriage partner can be considered completely safe may take a generation or two. But frankly, at this point, there are probably so many carriers of STDs that it's pointless to aim for a comeback for the sexual health we enjoyed up til the late 20th century. At least generally. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

True, but I don't really think she meant to imply that you were. Besides, Satan doesn't need you specifically; he can use practically anything to his advantage to further his cause, which, as she said, is to keep people from Christ. He could even use the foibles of a professing Christian like me!! But then this is a whole other topic. I guess I probably shouldn't speak for her, tho', as to what she meant. So I'll stop.

Now, minimizing other people's spiritual experiences and referring to them as hallucinations isn't very polite. I mean, how do YOU know that her relationship with God isn't real? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Well, I don't know anything about the Vatican and it's alleged lies (or anything else). But the idea of blaming Rome for incidences of sexually-transmitted AIDS or any other STD is pretty sad. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I'm not sure whether to or . Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

HUH? Attention HAIRYJUAN, et al. SUNDAY EVENING: Watch the Show: THE EXODUS DECODED on The History Channel, Sun., Aug. 20th, 7pm (CDT): Exodus. The very word evokes an epic tale of Pharaohs and Israelites, plagues and miracles, the splitting of the sea, the drowning of an army, Moses and the revelation at Sinai. The story is at the very heart of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. But many historians argue that the Exodus is a myth. Others disagree. In the Exodus Decoded we analyze the latest archaeological findings and scientific papers; we explore the dusty back rooms of out-of-the-way libraries and museums around the world; and we track down dozens of forgotten relics and ancient documents. Individually, these findings are historical curiosities. Together they tell the true story of the Exodus. In an explosive 2-hour documentary special, Exodus Decoded solves the mystery of the events of the Biblical Exodus for the first time ever. And in the meantime, check out what your name would look like in hieroglyphics...JFF!! http://theexodusdecoded.com/kidsMain.jsp Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Christians don't have any answers for these questions. They're irrelevant to us. Ask a practicing Jew for the answers. (Don't be reading somebody else's mail!) Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Wow! Congrats, Windcatcher! Psalm 127:3 (Today's New International Version) 3 Children are a heritage from the LORD, offspring a reward from him. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Gee, Micro, that was beeyoooteeful. Really. I was never blessed with conception, but I'm vicariously enjoying the sentiment. Even if conception doesn't take place, God blesses the moment in a way that only Christians feel and know. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

THANK you, Tony. I appreciate that. I shall

I wanted to say, too, that although my time is more limited right now, I enjoy the discussion-- as well as the distraction it provides... I'm going through a bit of turbulence right now, 'cos my father has been in two hospitals over the past two weeks and is presently in a skilled nursing facility and we think that he is close to dying; I am the only family member who is in town that can be with him, and I'm the one with medical POA. I love him to pieces. We're considering a feeding tube because he's losing the ability to swallow without aspirating, and he wants to hold on a while longer, yet there is little chance for his recovery of that abiility because of progressing dementia. If you (or anyone else on the forum) have any experience in this area-- especially regarding the pros and cons of feeding tubes, would you please let me know? I've gotten lots of helpful info from Medscape.com and an Alzheimer's discussion forum (tho' we believe his dementia to be vascular rather than AD), even tho' the info I'm getting so far about feeding tubes in people with dementia is rather discouraging. PEACE (but not at the expense of truth)! Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

br0k3n, are you open to receiving ANYthing that I have to offer in the way of explanation for my beliefs or what I believe the scriptures to be saying? or are you here just to disagree or to play devil's advocate for enjoyment? If you're not willing to consider what I say after you challenge me for answers, please say so. I try to give my answers thought and careful wording, tho' this may not always appear to be the case. I'll continue the dialog, but with a sliightly altered and more relaxed attitude. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

'Course I disagree wholeheartedly with your comment, still I have to

Do you believe that Abraham was the father of the nation of Israel? Do you believe that Moses lived and led the captive Israelites out of Egypt? Do you believe there was a king, a son of David, named Solomon? Any of those things? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

hairyjuan, do you believe that IDOL WORSHIP is a sin??? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

"Imagine a father were to tell his son that by the time he is twelve, he must decide whether or not to love his dad. The father says the child is free to choose whatever he wants, but if he chooses to not love his father, then the father will put his son in the oven and cook him. What sort of freedom of choice is this? I don’t think it is any choice. Surely a man who did this would be considered one of the most insane, sick, twisted, and evil person you could meet. He would be thrown in prison for child abuse, neglect, and infanticide. Even the criminals in prison would look down on this child murderer, most likely taking out revenge in the child’s name. How ironic is it then that when God does this, we worship him, say “God is Love”, and build churches in his honor It's too ridiculous a caricature. #1 The father tells his son that he must decide whether or not he loves his father by the time he's twelve." NO. God, through the Holy Spirit, woos people and gently draws them to Him by various means, such as by demonstrating His love, opening their understanding to spiritual truths having to do with God's nature, man's nature, the nature of Christ and the work of Christ that they didn't realize before. He gives insight into the scriptures which didn't exist before. He opens their eyes to His providence-- to His hand in their lives-- and eventually (if not already), He shows them their shortcomings-- the attitudes and behaviors which are responsible for their separation from Him. He teaches them the consequences of living a life that is in opposition to God: alienation from Him... i.e. never having the relationship with God--which we were created to have-- restored for us through Christ's reconciling work on the cross. Then He teaches them HOW they can be restored to Him and enjoy a true Friendship with God. He invites them to be reconciled through Christ and to follow Him forever. He promises them all the grace they will ever need, day by day, to follow Him. He promises his own presence to be with them and in them constantly. He promises to transform their lives more and more into the image of his Son. He often gives them a specific mission, or a purpose, and encourages them to persevere in it. He infuses His compassion and love for others into them. And much much more. #2 "if he chooses to not love his father, then the father will put his son in the oven and cook him." God gives us day after day to repent (this word means to change one's way of thinking). After hearing God's invitation: "Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hear my voice and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and he with me," what if they persistently refuse to be reconciled to Him? Then they remain estranged from God... as they wished, forever. This is free will. There's a wise use of free will and a foolish use of free will; it's up to each person. He reaps what he sows. Sounds pretty fair to me. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"