pash

Post what you can understand. The experienced may weed it out as matter or course. They may, however, comment in such a way that will keep us alive. Ignored or commented upon - those commented upon are more likely to be seen by those who have not been around along enough to see it as matter of fact. j

Snooty Hampsterface... and it's growing on me.. jason er, i mean snooty

Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. jason

NJ always "smells" near NYC and Philly. I don't know why. I got lost in Camden once. I actually stopped at a red light when 5 guys approached my vehicle holding something that resembled a french baguette or a baseball bat. I am only thankful that running a red light in Camden is REQUIRED. No. 3/4 are cabs. The last 1/4 say NJ because everyone else thinks the world stops at city's end and they don't need a car! jason "NJ and you - stinky together."

In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BS I'm old school let them hitch hike like we did in the good old days! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's how I understood it - what other kinds of "shagging" are there besides sex? I know of "shag" rugs but obviously that's not going to apply to an instructor...

I'm not an instructor but I am someone who understands where you are coming from. I had an Australian National Freefly Champion ask me and another on a two 3-way tracking dives. I said "yes" and then asked what I would need to do to arrange it. He said he was organizing (I didn't and still don't know what that means) and I said "ok, so do you need me to pay for your ticket or time?" Bottom line he said he was organizing and didn't need for me to pay for either, just my own ticket. That's a great story for me. The story would be equally great for me if he had asked for money for both the ticket and the time. Expect to pay for what you get and you'll never be disappointed. Once in a while, you'll be pleasantly suprised. Just be upfront and ask them directly. Expect to pay them. You are learning something and they need to eat. We will need to remember this dynamic if we get to their point. edit to note: I did buy a case of beer for him. Symbolism counts!!

When I had my cutaway (#25; A-License jump) I paid my packer. I wasn't a student at the time but in all seriousness, I don't get how someone is willing to argue over 5 or 10 bucks when it comes to KARMA!! I spent about 4 hours in the woods looking for my [rented] main. Approx $1600 bucks worth. I didn't find it. I hired a guy named Wild Bill to find it. This guy grew up in the woods and he said he wouldn't charge if he didn't find it. He found EVERYTHING. I called the gear shop every day ready to lay the credit card down and pay for the main in case it was weathered or simply not found. Mary, who runs the gear shop, is about one of the most awesome / understanding people I've ever had the pleasure to deal with. In short, when Bill found the main & freebag, I paid for the inspection and we were good to go!! Bottom line, don't be cheap. It may not be REQUIRED or IMPLIED but I say this is one area of life in which proper tipping lets you sleep (and live) at night. Which reminds me: while shopping for my rigger's favorite bottle of spirits, a friend of mine and I are staring at the small, medium, and large bottle of saphire bombay... "Well, she *did* save your ass" my friend says. Guess which one I went with?? jason

The more I read what you write, the cooler you get. Good job! jason

Damn fine memory mister! I have you penciled in for spring / summer I need to get with some instructors and learn what I've already learned all over again because I'm a big non-current ASS. jason

Dorbie, I appreciate you taking the time to go through that illustration. I'm very much a beginner and I often like to check out these types of discussions to glean some useful info here and there. With this thread, it seemed to have gone into a "number-theory direction" as opposed to something practical that a guy like me can learn from. (that's my problem by the way)! I wanted to be sure I understood where people with a lot of experience were coming from on this issue. It appears that the overall idea is that an AAD will improve your chances of survival over not having one, but there are instances when it could increase your danger (as in over-reliance and going low). I also get the idea that people who chose not to jump with an AAD don't want to be labeled "more dangerous" than others. I lost a friend that didn't have an AAD. I don't know that it would have saved his life but every day I wish he had one. jason

That's exactly what I did: 1) AHHHHHHHHHH!!! 2) Chop 3) Pay Although I had way more linetwists... like two-and-a-half

Ok - I'm on board. jason

I get the idea of discussing this issue to and end but what should a beginner learn from this discussion? Is there a singularity we can arrive at by dissecting mechanical vs. electronic components? I ask, if I were to jump 10 times with an AAD without pulling (relying solely on AAD to save me) vs 10 times without an AAD but relied solely on pulling what would you recommend? If skydiving happened in a vaccuum, wouldn't freeflyers and bellyflyers fall at the same rate? Aren't we living outside a vaccuum? jason

Thank you for making me laugh - and for teaching me that there is a dictionary!!

Holy shit! That's funny - I just went and found my copy and it does say 2004!! jason

That's just WRONG!

Hey Great! So did you accomplish what you wanted or is there something else?

Question: was there ever fee exchanged for service in this instance? or consulting? or an assumption that information was confidential? was either party deceptive in their initial conversation? Skydiving and "blocking" of information almost seem antithetical to each other.

Isn't it ironic that "skydive" and "website" both come up as misspelled on this skydiving website when doing a spellcheck??

Everyone selling something should believe in their product and believe it is the best. Otherwise you will not eat. I just don't get how a competitor in the skydiving industry can sleep at night trashing another to their customers. I guess it is, of course, the real world and the real world (read: greed) will work its way into any opportunistic situation it can. I am at peace with the irony of badmouthing Skyride in this forum. This forum is not advertising one DZ over another to a potential customer. Skyride supporters have equal time. The arguments in support of them have been: 1. Hey I'm a fun jumper - it really doesn't affect me 2. It's a market economy and if someone is willing to pay the price, then that's the price The arguments against have been more convincing: 1. There are hungry skydivers (redundant) that have risked their lives and taken the time and energy to take unique pictures which have been stolen. 2. number 2 is unecessary given number 1 SKYRIDE WILL LOSE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ADD VALUE. SKYRIDE WILL WIN BECAUSE OF INDUSTRY DISORGANIZATION. (not the disorganization of individuals in skydiving, just the willingness of some DZ's to feed Skyride by agreeing to their referral program.) I was referred to my DZ by my prior instructor. I was referred to skydiving by my brother. If someone at my DZ showed up with a certificate, I would find a quiet time to speak with them. I would not bash Skyride but I would tell them the real costs and I'm sure they would tell their friends. jason

Kallend, How so? Would it be from going low and deploying main while AAD fires reserve? Hopefully this is not leading but if that is the reason for 2 out, wouldn't someone going low go for the reserve first normally? I appreciate the chance to learn a little more about this. jason

That KILLED me!!

I haved worked the past 6 years in sales in telecommnunications. Not the "call-you-at-dinner sales" but business to business. After reading 100% of this thread, the thing that I notice about Skyride is that it preys on the ignorant. Some may say it is the fault of the ignorant - and to some degree, I agree. However, I never make a move assuming my competitor or customer is ignorant of anything. I teach them. And THAT is the tremendous bond I see in this community. It is teaching, sharing, and competing with integrity. Anyone willing to step over a dollar to pick up a dime is foolish. Or read: anyone willing to hit a one-time skydiver for $40 over market price and ensure they will never be a customer again, is foolish. Oh yeah, the theft thing sucks too.

Kallend, Swoop, I can see both sides of your argument. As a newbie, I would hope I would never find myself saying, "well, if I f-up, at least I have an AAD." And I think I would also say, "Every skydive I do, I can do without an AAD and survive because I am not dependent." Is the middle ground: "Don't let the AAD be the lowest common denominator in saving your life." ??? Or as an excellent post suggested - sort of "set it and forget it." I am very new and not current and don't think I will ever chose to skydive without an AAD but I understand the idea that counting on it to save me is seriously flawed. jason