pash

>The USPA has every power to run an inquiry into >the incident and make a recommendation to the >executive board. If the Titusville DZ does not want >to cooperate with an inquiry or if they are found >wrong then the USPA executive committee can >withdraw their accreditation. It is as simple as that. you voiced your concerns and raised the issue. I would move on. Rude people suck. Litigious people do too. jason

skydiving is a cross-section of the population... dz.com is a cross-section of the skydiving community (given only those with internet access that happen to post). Pilatus_p, given these facts, it is not unreasonable that you are going to get MANY different opinions or inputs... one of the most difficult jobs of the student is to decide upon the information which he / she absorbs as fact. person on person is the best resource. jason

... i lived RR#1 jump #25 (got my A-License on this dive): line twists In retrospect I had plenty of altitude to deal with the line twists but as the twists got down to the risers I made my decision right then after a quick breath. I was happy to hear the mocking "Ha Ha!" with the Nelson-like finger point of my favorite packer as I walked to the hanger with my reserve bundled in my arms . . .

Since this is such a subjective issue and there are bound to be a lot of different opinions, that bolded subordinate clause in my quote is key. jason

I definitely understand now. When I read that quote originally I must admit that it did not seem right to me. With just a few jumps I didn't want to jump on board or against it. jason

I know I'm going to be too literal here but aren't the things you describe actions to get the appropriate "skill sets?" I'm not saying one should NOT do those things for the purposes of this discussion. I'm wondering why the person who does those things and has NEVER jumped from a plane are less "impeded" than a person who DOES those things and has jumped from a plane in your opinion? Maybe I'm reading too much into it. The only thing I know about BASE is what I've read on this site. And that means I really don't know anything. I haven't jumped in 2yrs and it's turned me into a sad non-jumping dork who cannot stop looking at this site every day. Maybe one day I will get a life and take it to the sky and be able to contribute something useful here. jason

This puts it all into context. I hadn't thought of it that way before. This makes practical what was, until now, academic for me. thanks, jason

That was the funniest thing I have read down here. Witty yet informative in an "in between the lines" sort of way. It makes me feel a small amount of shame for posting my question as a serious one when there was such a funnier way to do it jason

I don't want to sound like I'm making the conclusion just yet but I've been reading the input from all of you and it made me think....(thank you for replying BTW). It sounds like the "impediment" could be bringing the attitude that success in one sport automatically equates to success in another sport. Maybe the problem is thinking BASE is a natural progression of skydiving? Maybe it's harder for a well-seasoned skydiver with the wrong attitude to look at BASE with open eyes and as a student? I'm hopeful that most "well-seasoned" skydivers got that way because they always considered themselves a student of some kind and were always open to learning something new. But then there are the exceptions. I just found it difficult to believe that given two different people, both with the "right" attitude to making a first BASE jump, that the one who's skydived is more impeded merely by the fact that the sports' skill sets are different. What do you think - is it in the attitude? Jason

Thank you Mark, I emailed Lisa. Whether you want to adopt Jacko and feed him every day or if you think he is an ass.... ask yourself if the punishment fits. If you feel it is in any way a little harsh based on past enforcements PLEASE show your support by following Mark's guidance. Thanks again Mark, Jason Upchurch

From the BD fatility thread, I took this quote to discuss how skydiving experience is an impediment to base: I acknowledge the skill sets are different and these are different sports. Can anyone with any real insight explain why it is an impediment to know how to skydive and then try base jumping? Is it that it is a "clean slate" theory? I am just confused as to how just because someone can skydive, they are more impeded to learn how to base jump. I am thinking this is not 100% true (maybe somewhat true but 100%??) because the basic assumption is that knowing how to skydive is a skill impossible to discard when trying something new. Anyone who has skydived has necessarily discarded some of their "life training" up until that point. I get that they are two different sports. When approached by any responsible individual a "new sport" I just don't buy that knowing another sport is more of an "impediment" when that very other sport required one to toss out years of ingrained human nature. Again, this quote, in context, is what is concerning to me considering that it seems to be given as fact from one of the premiere base jumpers on this website. I am neither a BASE jumper nor a premiere skydiver.

If there is anyone organizing this petition, my membership with USPA is current and I am willing to sign it. Please PM me any details I may need to support Jacko. Thank you, Jason Upchurch

happy belated birthday!

If I'm reading what he said correctly, he's not being fatalistic. Quite the opposite. He's showing the gambler's fallacy from the opposite side. Just because you've gambled a million times doesn't make your next time more likely to be a win. Just like jumping a million times doesn't make your next jump more likely a death. It's not your cumulative jumps that get you. It's just that last one... training, currency, attitude, and all other variables notwithstanding jason

Thanks for taking the time to make this post. I LOVE reading stuff like this from people that have been around long enough to get something and teach it / pass it on. I'm sorry it turned into a pissing contest on how many canopies are safe in the air and whether or not you can die with 2 or 200 in the air at once. Seems like a great write-up for any size DZ. Being complacent at any DZ seems like a recipe for disaster. It seems equally dangerous to be complacent just because you know everyone on the load and make assumptions, or you don't know anyone on the otter and make assumptions, or just because your 3 best friends are on the 182 and make assumptions. Being complacent in any of those environments still makes you guilty of the c-word. I knew 2 very experienced jumpers that probably *knew* what the other was going to do. Unfortunately they were both wrong. I'm not saying this just to point out that I know people that have died, I'm saying it because the OP was good advice for everyone on any DZ whether you are just starting, or a skygod, whether you've buried friends, or have yet to do so. Thanks again Lisa, jason

Thank you Jan, Do you or anyone else know whether or not ratings were actually revoked, and if so, by whom? USPA, Strong? Respectfully, Jason Upchurch

Jan, If it is true that his ratings were pulled, I'd like to request that they be reinstated. I'm sure he learned the lesson. Respectfully, Jason Upchurch

that may be true. i hope you learn without incident that it's more important that YOU listen to the ones with more experience. they are just saying there is a right way and wrong way to go about it. (maybe safe vs less safe is more easily digestible). why can't you get a FF coach and do some 2-ways with your buddies doing the same thing? then when you meet up with some more experience you can make the most of your dives. why not take the path that gives you your best chance of success and safety? of course, it's your right to ignore my comments because i have fewer jumps have fun and best of luck! jason

I'm annoyed that the real argument gets lost in shit like this. Everyone involved in *anything* dangerous feels like a rebel compared to someone. So skydivers feel like rebels to whuffos... BASE jumpers feel like rebels compared to skydivers. How much bragging would you be doing around the sharkfuckers? It's relative and doesn't do anything to address the ethics / actions of turning someone in. I've seen skydivers and BASE'ers here support GP. I've seen both indict him. Try not to boil me down to a pussy while you're trying to make your point. respect, jason

that looks like Anne Laure following you. I did my first and second jump at that DZ. We were using a plane i believe they called a Westwind... jason

Like my favorite sig line on this site: "It's a typographical error. It should read, 'Free consultation? No. Money down.'" jason

Kelp, Ron, if I'm reading his posts correctly, does not dispute that this was an accident. The fact remains the piloted aircraft collided with a jumper under canopy. That's all. Again, if I'm reading things correctly, all he is saying is that calling the cops idiots in this specific instance is not helping. It will fuel them and add to their "vendetta" to bring someone to "justice." California, in my opinion is a fairly liberal state. Calling a cop a name there may not cause a problem but in some states it will get you maced, cuffed, and put in jail. We do not live in a black and white world or in a bubble when it comes to authority. Keeping a cool head and avoiding name calling will only help keep things from escalating. Embarrass law enforcement and give them no out or opportunity to save face? This will only create a battle of egos. Ego has no place in this time and place. This is a dead horse and it seems like everyone knows what happened. Inviting everyone to kick it cannot help keep someone out of jail. FYI - I do not think you are inviting anyone to do this by the way - I think folks are overreacting to the factual nature of what he is saying. I know I did when it hit close to home. jason

I agree with you Ron. Bashing the cops is not the best way to make this or anything go away. I lived in FL for 10yrs and as a dumb kid I thought the cops were asses for "harassing" me for my broken windshield, or parking on campus without a permit, or making an illegal u-turn on my motorcycle. 10yrs later I moved to NJ and found out exactly what will happen when you actually TELL a cop EXACTLY how you feel. Jail really wasn't all that fun. I was wrong and I learned my lesson. My lesson was to show respect for the police because, even when they are wrong, they are right. When pressed, most people will not give up on a position because people are stubborn. I mean, you can rebut every fact down to the detail and when you give someone no place to run, they still think they are right. Now try the same thing with a cop (try giving them no graceful out to save face) and you're really just adding fuel to the fire. Good points Ron. My heart goes out to Gus' family and Bill. Jason

Can anyone answer this? I suspect something in the way of an entaglement that you might want to clear before you reserve is deployed (say around a sight ring) but not sure. jason

I'm barely a skydiver and do not plan to BASE jump. I do appreciate the lesson in this thread though because as obvious as it may be to everyone else, it wasn't to me. Of course it is now! Thanks for the etiquette lesson. I hate going through life as a dick.