tigra

I'm with PatKat. Fandango is a must see!

I was hoping someone would mention Mr. D. Mr. Douglas is a favorite of mine. You could get up and dance in the aisle while climbing to altitude, not to mention dirt dive, nap, read a book...... We had him at the "old" skydive chicago for a good part of the 97 season, and it used to clip the trees at the end of the runway as it took off! I don't have that many DC3 jumps though, and I've never mastered the exit! Ton of fun, though! Lady Luck (another DC3) has called Skydive Chicago home for at least part of the year lately, but we don't seem to use her too much. Most people prefer the super otters since they climb so much faster, and the DC3 exit is a challenge!

Skydiving is a legit skydiving magazine. I don't know anything about usubscribe. I ordered mine through the regular mail and renew it that way.

I feel your pain......

The number of jumps you make in a weekend certainly goes a long way in improving your skills and helping you stay current. But its not just about quantity, its about quality. Personally, I think I threw a lot of money away on zoo loads where I didn't really learn much, and which were kind of dangerous too. My advice, don't be too quick to jump on big loads, and don't be afraid to be selective about who you are jumping with. I'm not saying turn into a total skysnob, but its your time and money. You have a goal, you want to improve your flying so that eventually you can teach others, and you can't do that on disorganized zoo loads. Find a few people around your level and jump with them. 3 ways, 4 ways, that kind of thing. Try and commit to 3 or 4 jumps together any given day. You would be amazed at how much you can improve your flying skills when your are consistently flying with the same people and don't try to put too much in the skydive. Also, try and jump with the more experienced jumpers whenever you can. They won't always take the low time jumpers on their loads, but when they do, you can learn a lot and have a lot of fun. Any other jumps you have the time and money for, do what you want. Sitfly, freefly, organize for newbies, anything. Anyway, its not just about numbers. If you can only make 4 jumps in a weekend, make them count! Last year I made less jumps than I have since I started jumping, maybe 60 when I had been doing between 100-150 in a season. But I had more fun and learned more, too. This season, though, I hope to be back up to my regular pace, which would be around 8 every weekend, maybe 25-30 per month. Hope that's helpful! Maura

sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but, doesn't the rigger have to take out your reserve in order to get to your cypres? Then, if he repacks without the cypres, he'll have to repack it again 2-4 weeks later when he gets the cypres back? Seems like an awful lot of trouble when the weather is still pretty crappy in Chicago, so I just left my rig with my rigger and told him to call me when it was ready. I figured if I really got the urge to jump, I could borrow my fiance's rig, or rent one from dz. Luckily, my baby will be ready this weekend, so I'm hoping for blue skies and less than frigid air!

I think suing the dz is bogus, too. Ultimately this woman is responsible for her own actions. As they say, "you pays yoour money, you takes your chances..." I'd really like to hear what the dz has to say though, because parts of the story are disturbing. No one has ever made me feel bad for stepping down from a load because the conditions were not right, whether it was winds, clouds or low blood sugar from not eating all day. If you are uncomfortable, scratch from the load. Everyone should respect and understand that. But I also know I used better judgement in those circumstances at 200 jumps than I did at 50, or 28. Experienced skydivers and jumpmasters should not be encouraging low time jumpers to jump in questionable weather, or ignore the fact that the person was obviously not comfortable with making the jump. Don't get me wrong, its a fine line, and this girl is obviously responsible for her own actions, no matter what, but for a jumpmaster to dismiss her concerns and encourage her to jump is wrong too. ( if that is what actually happened) I remember once being afraid to walk up to Jerry Bird and scratch myself from a load because clouds had moved in pretty thick. I didn't want anyone thinking I was a wuss, and I didn't want to pass on a great opportunity to jump with someone like Jerry Bird. But I sucked it up, went and talked to him, and he told me he wouldn't jump in the clouds either. He would have had less respect for me if I still wanted to go! Anyway, combine peer pressure with the incredible desire to skydive and it can often overwhelm your common sense. And face it, (no offense intended here) newer skydivers often lack that judgement and the ability to know when to say no. I know that I did, and I know that I did some stupid things which I was lucky enough to walk away from, including jumping in heavy winds and serious cloud cover. As you gain experience in this sport, you also gain a greater sense of the dangers involved. You see more injuries, you become more aware of exactly what can go wrong on a skydive. Experienced skydivers have a obligation to set a good example for less experienced skydivers. At 28 jumps, as a newly licensed skydiver, I looked to my former jumpmasters for all kinds of guidance, and they were always there for me. If one of them had told me it was OK to jump, I would have. But I still think the lawsuit seems totally out of line in this case, and there are at least 3 sides to every story, so I'd like to hear the dz's side, and what really happened to her under canopy.

Its about confidence. How the jumpmaster carries him or herself, and how well they gain the student's trust. Doesn't matter whether you are male or female, your first job is to put your student at ease. We have women tandem masters and AFP jumpmasters at Skydive Chicago, and they are very well received.

I agree that complacency is a problem in this sport. I just don't agree with the argument that the availability and use of AADs adds to it. You could argue the opposite just as easily, because one sign of complacency is the "it will never happen to me" attitude. I've been in this sport long enough to know that "it" can happen to anyone. And "it" can be anything from being knocked out in freefall, to panicking during a high speed malfunction and not responding properly or quickly enough to save yourself. Just my opinion. The fact is that some skydivers are more "diligent" than others, with or without a cypres. Like you said, these discussions are good for getting all the opinions out there.

Craig, Its interesting reading for sure, but my point was that people who jump a cypres are not intentionally complacent. Did any of these people say, "oh, I wasn't worried, I didn't pull my reserve because I knew my cypres was there"?, or were they just relieved that even though they f@#$%^ up, they were still alive? The report also clearly indicates that stress and panic have an effect on our actions, and mistakes do happen. I keep reading and hearing statements like, "oh, I jump like its not there" referring both to a cypres and RSL, and while the intent may be to say, "I don't rely on it to replace my emergency procedures" that's not what is being said, and there is a difference. Be aware that these devices are on you rig, and what they do. That awareness may save your life. Ok off my soap box..... Blue ones!

Viking, most dz's use protec helmets for their students, and will usually let you borrow them after you graduate for a short time until you get your own. It is a decent inexpensive option which I think works OK for freeflying as well as belly flying. And for those of you who really don't think helmets like the factory diver offer significant enough protection, all I can say is I have a friend who would not be alive without his. I saw the landing, I saw the crater his head left in the ground, and I saw the look of astonishment in the paramedics eyes when they saw it. Not to say there isn't room for improvement, because there certainly is, but they are better than frap hats, and they can save your life. I'd be worried about the weight and fit of a racing helmet, since it is not designed for skydiving or vertical speed. The people who strap pounds of expensive video equipment to their heads are very experienced skydivers, not newbies looking to buy their first helmet. Sorry, Viking is no Norman Kent just yet!

I've never jumped with a camera, but will you be wearing a winged camera suit? When I first started jumping a sit suit, I was told to bring my arm in as I reached back to toss my pc. The wing can catch air and cause a nasty twist. Line twists and hard openings go hand in hand, and both are especially dangerous with a camera on your head. My sabre has a tendency to open briskly too, and I've gotten in to the habit of sort of bracing myself for the opening. But I'm tired of that, so I bought a Spectre! Big difference! Good luck! Be safe and have fun!

I have 2 tony suits for rw custom ordered, and I've never had a problem. Both fit perfectly when I got them, and I have sent both in for minor repairs, (both times I would consider normal wear and tear, not a defect in the suit)and found the service to be really good. I also have a sit suit and patch pants that I bought "off the rack" made by Tony, and I'm happy with those too. I would call over there and explain the problem. Could be you "buffed up" a bit between getting measured and getting the suit, or it could be they goofed up. I'm sure they will work with you either way.

That pretty much says it all, Fruce.

You know, it really gets me every time I see someone rush to make a load and jump on the plane with their gear half on, just as the plane is starting to taxi off. Used to be we wouldn't even let them on. What bothers me most is that these guys (and gals) think they are cool, and if there are students and newbies on the load, they think they are cool too. There is nothing cool about ignoring gear checks and basic safety. When you board a jump plane, you should be ready to jump. Anyway, if everyone made a point of not allowing the plane to take off until people were properly geared up, then these "cool" people would be the toads that are holding up the load, and maybe accidents like this one won't happen again. Just my .02! Not to sound unsympathetic to this woman's family or anything, but this was totally preventable. Edited by tigra on 3/29/01 02:49 PM.

Well said! Here's for us 30somethings!

Hi SkyMama, I started jumping at 34, on my own, because it was something I had always wanted to try. But no one would ever go with me. Finally, I was at this point when it was like I was waiting to live my own life, and I asked myself, why? and what was I waiting for? The dz was advertising pretty heavily that summer on the radio, and I finally called, got the brochure and made the appointment for my first tandem. I really thought I would just do the one, but when I got there, something about the whole place just felt like home. My first jump was on a Tuesday morning. I called the next day and asked what I needed to do if I wanted to go again, and they told me just show up, so I did, the following Saturday, and bought 2 more tandems. I was hooked, started the AFP program the following weekend, and jumped every weekend until the weather pooped out in November, and then I still showed up almost every weekend, just hoping for the chance to jump. So how did it change my life? I feel like I've been reliving my 20s in my 30s, and having a lot of fun. It's made me more confident, but also more likely to tell off my boss when he or she had it coming. I've also made good true friends, people I never would have met if I wasn't jumping. Your husband sounds awesome. I've always felt that it is harder for girls to have whuffo boyfriends and husbands because on top of everything else (expense, and the time commitment), there is a jealousy factor involved, and some guys are just plain intimidated by the fact that a woman is doing something they are afraid to do. Sounds like your guy is a keeper! It was great to hear your story! Welcome back to the skies!

I know a stiletto for someone just off student status sounds crazy to most of you but Skydive Chicago is a very progessive dz, and some of the students are jumping stilettos before they graduate. Leo and Chris have probably NEVER jumped F111, and nothing larger than a 170, unless they were visiting another dz and renting gear. When I went through AFP in 1996, it was sabres, and THAT was unheard of everywhere else, and many dealers did not want to sell a sabre to someone with 50 jumps. Now a sabre is considered old technology and perfectly fine for beginners. This sport is constantly evolving. Anyway, PD and Icarus are making these canopies and selling them to Skydive Chicago knowing that students will jump them, and yes, that includes the Stilettos. Right or wrong, Roger's theory is that you might as well train the students on the gear they will end up buying. AFP students are on radio until they graduate, and I think the program is up to 18 jumps, not including tandems. No, that's not a lot, but they do get some supervision and training flying a high performance canopy. How many levels of AFF are there before they stop the radio? How many of you went from jumping large f111 canopies to smaller zero p? Without the benefit of a jumpmaster talking you down on radio? So, its not quite as crazy as it seems. That's all I'm trying to say. Blue ones!

I fall faster than most of the guys at my dz. I'm not exactly light, and I have a good arch. After I graduated, I was on some organized "newbie" loads with the dzo. After one of them, he looked at me and said, "you need booties and swoop cords", so when I ordered my suit, I went in to the gear store and said "i need a suit with booties and swoop cords." She knew what I needed and pulled out the fabric samples and order forms, going with the heavier fabric without giving me the option. (good thing because I wouldn't have known). After I got a little more experience under my belt, I ordered a second suit with a lighter fabric, (because I was better able to control my fall rate,) but kept the booties, swoop cords and the looser cut. How are you in freefall? Do you struggle to keep up, arch super hard, that kind of thing? or do you find yourself sinking and having to cup air just to stay with the people you are jumping with? If you haven't noticed anything, then maybe you are right in the middle, or you are jumping with people like you. Try and get on some organized small loads- 3 and 4 ways with some people a little more experienced than you are, and see how they go. That should give you a better idea. Blues ones!

A jump suit that fits is essential if you are planning to do any RW. Decide on the helmet once you decide what type of skydiving you will be doing- belly or freeflying. Most full face helmets aren't good for head down skydiving, they just don't fit tight enough. And the audibles are great, but not essential. Just my .02!

Another word of advice: The measurements are key. Make sure whoever takes them knows what they are doing. If your dz has a gear store you might want to order through them and have someone there take the measurements. It would suck to pay close to $300.00 and wait 6-8 weeks for a custom made suit that does not fit! I've got cordura on the seat and knees of my tony suits, which was great investment for me. Tony makes a really sturdy durable suit to begin with, but the extra protection sure helps. You can get a suit with knee pads, too, which is really nice when you are practicing exits in the mock up, over and over again. As cool as it is to pick out your colors and custom design your suit, buy it for how it flies first, how it looks second. Choose the fabric and cut based on your fall rate. The good thing about custom ordering is that you can do both. And have fun!

Hi Kerb, I can't even begin to imagine how you feel. What a horrible tragedy, and to witness it, too. I can tell you that I jump at a very buzy dz, and over the years, we have experienced our share of incidents. Not a plane crash, thank god, but two world record attempts in 3 years, and each had one fatality. To be in the hangar when a jumper is missing and presumed seriously injured or dead is not like anything I had ever experienced before. You find yourself looking for missing faces, and experiencing a guilty sense of relief each time you see a familiar face or friend. Guilty because you know that someone will be missing a loved one, relief because it is not your friend out there. I can tell you that being with your skydiving family helps you cope with the grief, because they will truly understand. We jump with people all weekend, and sometimes don't even know their last names, what they do for a living or if they have kids, brothers, sister, wives or husbands. Yet we share this bond, and they are family. It's very early in your skydiving career to be confronted with one of the harsher realities of this sport. The longer you stay in it, the greater the chances that you may lose a close friend, witness an ugly accident, or get injured yourself. And while this was not a skydiving accident, it was never the less related to skydiving and has affected everyone at your dz. How to cope with the fear? The only way I know is to get up in the air and make a jump. And I know for you especially that will not be an easy thing, because you are so new to the sport and you witnessed something so horrible. But if skydiving has become a part of your blood, then you will jump again. Take your time and do it when you are ready. And don't be afraid to call your dz, and talk to someone there. You are family now, that's just how it is with skydivers, and in hard times, families stick together. Good luck to you, and my sincerest condolences! Maura

I don't think you should have a problem getting a 170 into a J2. What does Sunpath say? I have a J1 with a sabre 150. Its a tight fit, but not excessively so. Definately could not go any bigger, though. You may be limiting your options with the J2, though. You can downsize your main without a new container, unless you are going really small. The you run into problems like line dump and other nasty things. But how small are you going to go, and how soon? But if you want to UPSIZE your main for any reason, with the J2, you won't be able to. 2 possible reasons? Recovering from an injury, you might want a larger more docile canopy, or if you are participating in a special skydive, maybe a big way or a record attempt, and you're in the base wearing lead, the extra weight might put more of a strain on your canopy than you want. Just something to think about. Blue ones!

Are you just trying to stir up controversy or do you really believe all that? I actually don't think there is any LAW that sets deployment altitude, just USPA guidelines, BSRs and common sense. But its really bad for the sport when people bounce due to their own stupidity, and that's why people comment when you pull low. (and maybe they care about your safety, too.) And is it my imagination, or are a lot of the people who argue most vehemently against AADs low pull artists?