TVPB

CRW EP's CRW Emergency Procedure Scenario's & Information - point 5 in the wraps section says it all. CRW Emergency Procedure from Wendy's site Scary Lucky Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Tom Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Chuck Here is a simple reason for the exclusion philosophy in the BASE community r.e. site naming. The person who is least likely to undergo further research to gather more information and prepare him/herself better for BASE jumping, may also be too lazy to open up the link that you refer to. Therefore, if you exclude the name from your post, you reduce the likelihood of a person going to said site. Enter the Good Samaritan ethos of "If I can only save one person, then it is all worth it". Or for the BASE community "if I can reduce the likelihood of even one accident occuring at XY location, then it is worth it". Argue semantics all you like. There are people on the BASE fatality list that DID read about a location and went there to die. There have been MANY close calls that you don't know about. Why should we increase the exposure of a site and people to it. IT is better that only 100 people know as opposed to 200 people. etc etc etc. And it is BASE Ethics. p.s. IF people REALLY want to find places to jump off, there are millions of pieces of information on the net that will help them get there. One of the characteristics that a good isntructor will promote in a BASE student, is initiative and the willingness to actually put some effort into there training. The fact that they are willing to put effort in means. . . . . . . they are willing to put effort in. Obviously!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Changed my mind. I think we should all use the art of Zen & Meditation in correcting our headings. As the canopy is deploying, cross your arms over in front of you, close your eyes, and "be the canopy". Fly gracefully towards the wall, be at one with it, tease it, torment it, gracefully push it further away from you, then reject it. Turn away when it wants you the most. Glide towards. . . . . . . Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Yeah, natural selection is all good, except when you are there to pick up the pieces. I have seen a bloke do a floater off a lower bridge, fumble for his toggles, and 4 seconds later he hit a pylon. . . . which was in front of him and 45 degrees to the right!!!!! I've seen people with 1000's of skydives hook it it, I've seen people do the stall to surge frap in, I've seen. . . . Anyway. . . . Teaching the "right way" straight off has its merits. But you have to have the right back ground and the right objects to be able to do this. You have to remember, there are people reading these forums as their basis for BASE education and training. They will take the word of most people here and go out and jump there high risk objects using techniques appropriate only for experienced jumpers on lower risk objects. This is serious stuff. It happens. We had one guy turn out to one of our Waterfall boogies in the late nineties after having read a tongue in cheek article in a magazine. He did not even know we were there, it was a coincidence that he turned up at the same time as us. He jumped with D-Bag etc. BTW What is this getting major separation away from the wall stuff on big wall BASE jumps huh? Ya big sissy!!! Don't forget, you are talking to an Aussie. We get lonely when the rock is not there!!!!!!!!! Hence, risers it is for me. Usually! Your turn Ray. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Ray. You asked for it. Primacy in learning is super critical when teaching students. Toggle this time, riser that time, if the wind is over that speed do this, if it is that speed do that, if its low do this, if its narrow do that, if if if if if if.. . . . . . What if I forget page 47859 of the BASE encyclopaedia that I have been taught prior to my first jump? Keep it simple. I think teaching BASE jumping is like learning investing. Find a series of simple rules that are known to work, and stick to them. Don't use emotion, gut feel, what if's, every time you should be making simple decision. r.e. wind and bridge jumps: you only have wind on a bridge jump if you choose to jump in wind. Your figures are skewed by personal experience, and your personal risk tolerance. These figures should not be extrapolated to beginners. If its too windy, you don't jump. There is no complication here. Too windy does not mean acceptable wind, it means too much wind. You've just answered the question of "to jump, or not to jump"? Its more important teaching a student how to say NO than all the combinations and variations in equipment and jumping technique. They will learn the details over time if they choose to do so. If not, natural selection will look after them. Toggles over risers on a bridge. Here is a common scenario on lower bridge jumps amongst inexperienced jumpers. Deep brake settings - open - slight stall due to poor brake setting &/or wind interference - pop toggles & unknowingly go to full drive - panic - deep brake input due to fear of hitting ground - still time - go to full drive due to insufficient drive to generate lift/flare on landing - SURGE - deep brake pound in. How about - if you feel rushed - rear riser flare and PLF - assuming the ground is not covered in boulders)? Toggles to correct heading on lower jumps #2 - 90 degree off heading - excessive toggle input = hook turn landing..... I have seen many people fumble for their toggles for heading correction. I have done it myself. If you throw a twist in with the off heading, your body is spinning around which makes it even harder to accurately grab your toggles in a timely fashion. Let me clarify again - toggles are faster than risers WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE OUTPUT OR RESPONSE. They are NOT a better option overall, especially when considering inexperienced jumpers or students. As usual, just my opinion.

Tail wind on a 180 where you have a chance of hitting something????? I thought this thread was about risers versus toggles, not about right from wrong... Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

It was just an observation of other people. I don't necessarily think like that. I would have 2000 BASE jumps now if I didn't have a wife and two adorable little kids. It was not so much a sacrifice as a change in commitment. And it is my choice. One thing certainly happens. As you Progress from single to married to children, the level of pressure from your partner and family increases wrt to your involvement in activities which are perceived as risky. p.s. I can't do marriage counselling anyway. I have not been divorced yet. Isn't that on of the prerequisites? Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

My dear friend, you have assumed that skychick was only talking hetero. There's lots of spunky blokes out there!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Is that an offer??? Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Nick r.e. the long time jumpers and toggle/riser debate. Its out there big time. It is not only on the internet. Come down under and you'll see what I mean. I have seen it in Europe, and I have seen it in the States. I am personally heavily in favour of risers for deployment heading correction. I teach that to all my students. p.s. regarding my comments on relative speed between risers and toggles, I need to clarify a few points I was making: - I was comparing the inputs in stages. - the time from decision to grip is slightly greater for toggles. - the likelihood of an incorrect grip or missed grip is higher on toggles than on risers. - I think I mentioned that the speed comparison was after a correct grip had been made and the toggle was released. Forgive me if I missed this. Given this scenario, a toggle input will make a faster turn than risers. But the speed is offset by likelihood of positioning closer to an object. And when you factor in the time and risk mentioned above, it seems logical to me that ON AVERAGE, riser inputs are a better option. People may argue against this in specific circumstances. Anyway, its all personal perceptions and judgement. I'll try to dig up some published material on canopy control and flight and include it here. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Ha ha, funny!!!!! Get it. . . .. . . . . Ah forget it, I'll stick with my day job. But since you are serious, I was specifically referring to the common situation whereby a relationship between a male BASE jumper and female non jumper evolves to a level where a greater expectation of commitment has developed. Often, the female partner becomes so emotionally dependant on her male partner (and visa versa), that she develops an underlying fear of cessation of said relationship. She then creates an expectation of total self preservation which may includes such needs as risk minimisation, increasing time commitments, etc. Often the male partner is forced to make a decision between his personal fulfillment needs and the expectaions of his partner. This may lead to either withdrawal from all activities that may compromise his partners fears (such as BASE jumping) or termination of the relationship. Hence, my comment. No, it was not referring to a chick bouncing or something silly like that. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck and chill out

As you said Tom - this is just my opinion. Subject to possible human error and biased perception based on personal experience. Clarification Assuming you have correct grips on either riser or toggle the following is evident. - it takes less force to give the same amount of input on toggles than it does risers. i.e. it takes more effort to pull my risers down 5 inches than it does my toggles. Also, the leverage required for riser inputs makes it more difficult. Depending on your strength, this adds to your control input time. - aerodynamics: a riser input pulls down a bigger percentage of a canopy than a toggle (surface area). Its affect is more like changing the relative wind angle on one side of a canopy than a straight out turn. Its kind of like the bulldozer affect. The whole rear of the canopy is affectively shaped like a propeller blade and it spins around. Whereas a toggle acts just on the tail and does a more radical job of altering air flow and inducing stall, etc. From full or partial drive (both toggles busted + pulling down on one), the affect of stall on one side and greater relative drive on the other adds together to speed up the turn. From risers this is slower because both sides still have plenty of forward drive and the stalling affect on one side is less than the other. It is all a bit different during a BASE opening. I am not 100% sure about the details so the following is just theoretical and open to discussion. I think that most often, people will still have one toggle stowed whilst they are pulling the other one down. On lower jumps with deeper brake settings it means that both sides are closer to the stall. However, the side with toggle input will behave just like in the previous example which will still assist in a more rapid turn. I think yes overall (statistical average) but it will depend on many factors. These factors include wing loadings, brake settings, canopy airfoil design, age & wear and tear of the canopy/suspension lines/brake lines, prevailing weather conditions, yada yada yada. This is the mother of all BASE heading questions. How do we minimise this to minimise the chance at wall strike? I would like to add a disclaimer here before I say anything. These are just my opinions and I could be horribly wrong. I am not offering advice and you should do your own research and form your own opinions on your off heading strategies. i.e. its not my fault, tis your fault Now - lets talk about relative flight. IF you are behind and below another parachutist and heading in the same direction, the best way to catch up is to give rear riser input which will change your angles (realtive wind or attack or whatever). If you are directly below and not behind at all, you give toggle input. If you are high and further behind, you give front riser input. This gives us a bit of a clue as to what happens. I have added more details in the Aerodynamics section of the OzCRW website. Now, all this becomes a bit more complex in terms of deeper brake settings, etc. Too true Tom. In the end, we have opinions based on other opinions, experience, and research/technology currently available. Occasionally we are right, sometime wrong. What do you wreckon? Am I full of sh it or does some of this make some sense? Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Tom Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I pack reserves. When you pack a reserve, you keep a log. This log specifies what you packed, any mods, serial numbers, etc. If someone goes in and they contact you (the packer), you just show them your log. In the USA I believe they still seal reserves - if it is no pull situation it is extra evidence that the gear has been "tampered" with. Hence, I don't worry about that sort of thing as a packer, as long as my paperwork is up to scratch. Hope this helps.

But its an easy way to lose one!!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Nick I am totally a pro riser person. After all, my other nylon and string passion is CRW. I say "if inexperienced" because of the usual debate riser v toggle. I am adamant about students learning to use risers, but I think that experienced jumpers can choose their own fate. That comes with the territory of being experienced. Fact - toggles DOES give a faster response than risers. Fact - it DOES take longer to grab your toggles than it does your risers (cf your eg). Even for big grab toggles. Fact - there is a higher probability that you will miss a toggle as opposed to a riser. Why? Because the target area on a toggle is LESS than a riser. Hence it is more difficult to grab a toggle. Not only do you have to target, you have to manouvre your fingers through the loop and lock your fingers in. Couple that with the stress created during a 180 event. Couple that with the experience people have of performing this action under the same level of stress (not many of us get to practice this before it happens, hence virtually all of us are "inexperienced" when we are correcting our first 180). This all adds up to higher likelihood of object strike. It is absolutely correct that you can train yourself to be more accurate in this action. This is where skydiving and CRW and other parachuting disciplines assist with your development as a BASE jumper. As usual, just my opinion.

Hi Clint "He thinks". Lets analyse that for a second. He thinks in foresight is a wonderful think - oops, thing. I recommend this to all and sundry. He thinks in hindsight is a bit late although better late than never. If he still thinks AFTER he has messed up that his strategy was correct, then he must learn to open his mind a little more. Lets go with the theory that "if you do tomorrow what you did today, the result will still be the same". He jumps off tomorrow with all conditions the same, he gives the same input, he reaches over with his other hand to pull the toggle down further (this all takes time to do which could have been spend flying away from the wall), will the outcome be different? HHHHMmmmm. ?????? "The first step in overcoming a problem is to recognise that a problem exists". Next we move on to the Simpsons. Ever seen the episode where Lisa does an experiement to test the intelligence and learning abilities of Bart and a Rat. The Rat learns after a few electric shocks not to touch the object anymore. Bart doesn't. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Are we there yet? Lack of currency is an OBVIOUS and PROVEN component in MANY aviation accidents. If you do not believe this is the case or you believe that you are immune to the affects of a lack of currency, then I sincerely hope you recover well from your accident. Lets not kid ourselves here people. Uncurrent people, FU$CK UP. You do NOT learn enough in 50 skydives and 20 BASE jumps to fully know what you are doing. Unless you are a very special person. By definition, very special is limited to very few people (we are considering skill only, not how others feel about us ). 1 Set up gear correctly. 2 If inexperienced, use RISERS. 3 Learn to use them in a safe environment, not on your first 180 opening off a cliff. 4 Have a plan and stick to it. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Tom

You are a sick man. I think you should see a psychologist or . . . .

Yep - the comments from the sports psych on 60 mins were a little too generalist for me too. This was either achieved by the editors picking out what the general public MAY have wanted to hear, OR, the sports psych's level of understanding was very limited. The British song bird Dido (as opposed to Dodo who is the extinct free thinking person who is very comfortable with their place in life despite undertaking activities outside the statistical norm ) sang the lyrics: "I am what I am, I do what I want". This is, within reason, the essence of my existance. Quite frankly, at this point in time, I do not need or feel the need to explain my actions to anyone. As long as I don't actually (as opposed to perceptually ) affect other people's lives, who cares what I do. Individuals who feel threatened by a BASE jumpers ability to undertake an action beyond their wildest comprehensions, should take an unblinkered step back and consider where society would be if EVERY individual was in fact a suppressed clone performing at some average level. Society would not advance. What the sports psych failed to verbalise or comprehend or consider is that high achievers, by definition, seek internal or external recognition for their performance. This recognition is a part of the feedback control system that helps improve the performance. If you have no feedback, you DO NOT progress. You do not get better. BASE jumpers are in some respects, high performance individuals. Notwithstanding the yahoos who leap without thought or preparation, the majority of the BASE community have highly developed risk management skills and intelligence. Many BASE jumpers are accomplished in their chosen professional careers. Participation in BASE jumping is simply another form of expression of their abilities. Deviation from statistical norms does not always imply some psychological imbalance. I disagree with the comment that you can't group personality types within the BASE community. You can make some generalisations about common traits of individuals within the group. However, just like everything else in life, their will be exceptions. Subgroups will have some commonalities in reference to certain characteristics (i.e we jump because we are nature lovers), but also some widely fluctuating characteristics. (i.e. one nature lover will be very conservative and quiet whilst another will be a high risk taker and loud). The comment by the sports psych that we jump due to a need to belong / or for egocentric reasons flies right in the face of the fact that MANY jumps are done in isolation. It clearly shows that his data pool is limited to public events. It would be like measuring the % of the gay population in San Francisco and saying that it correlates to the entire western world. Flawed. Unprofessional. Not very academic if you ask me. I also believe that there is nothing wrong with people undertaking psychological studies related to risk and adventure, as long as they are taken with the proverbial "grain of salt" when considered by other people. Without some form of research, even our sport would not progress. And lets face it, we are all very greatful for the progression that has occured over the last five years or so. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Tom B

Hi Tom I partially agree with you. I don't believe that you should leave an injured jumper behind. Unless it is for the sole purpose of improving their chances of survival by attempting to get assistance. This all depends on the extent of injuries. And here is my disagreement part. There are absolutely NO F%$#@cking circumstances where ANY jumper should leave ANY injured colleague behind if there is any doubt as to the survivability of that jumper if left alone. Avoiding getting caught IS NOT an acceptable reason. If you are 100% certain that the jumper will be OK until rescue gets there, OK. But you HAVE TO BE 100% certain. This is basic human decency. And if any of us assume the role of the injured, we would hope that our MATES, would help us. We should return this expectation. We had a story here a number of years ago where an injured jumper had to cut his canopy up with his hook knife to keep himself warm overnight and prevent death by hypothermia in a cold mountain climate (there's another use for a hook knife huh). There was opportunity for that person to be recovered earlier. This discussion also promotes tha validity of communication & preparation when undertaking wilderness jumps. 1 - Tell someone where you are going. 2 - Tell them when you are expected to return (probable and worst case). 3 - Take some basic rescue and first aid gear. 4 - Communication - take radios, etc and determine how rescue can be contacted when you are in the wilderness (i.e. rescue frequencies and what devices are capable of maintaining range). 5 - Don't push the limits excessively. You should factor rescue in the complexity of your jump. It would suck if you died of a broken ankle because no-one knew where you were. 6 - etc. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Tom Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Skypuppy. We had to wear AAD's to compete in the World Parachuting Championships in France in 2003. Apparently all parachutists must wear AAD's in France. Our team was sponsored by the wonderful FREEFALL FACTORY in Melbourne, Austalia. They lent us a cypres each. I am not even going to attempt to delve into the were they on or off discussion. That is/was a personal decision. You have to be careful about making blanket statements about anything. For example, there are different types of AAD's that are deliberately or accidently activated under different scenarios. Some good , some bad. Any AAD that is externally exposed (student FXC's etc) are dangerous due to the danger of lines getting caught on them. So I think we can rule out any external mounted AAD on CRW jumps. What about internal AAD's (cypres, astra, etc)? There will be scenarios where they can save lives, and there will be scenarios where they will endanger lives. Your decision should be an educated, calculated, factual, non-emotive decision. 1 - List all the possible scenarios. 2 - Go through and write down each possible outcome on each scenario and the realistic possibility of each of these happening. 3 - Write down how each of these can be avoided totally (or reduce the chance of happening) using common sense, procedures, other equipment, etc. 4 - Get someone to cross-check your thoughts. Remember that we each have clouded personal perceptions of everything in life. 5 - Are there any situations that are unacceptable and unmanageable? Then don't put yourself into that situation. Are there any situations that an AAD will change from unacceptable (in terms of risk) to acceptable? If the answer is yes, you should use an AAD. Base your decision on facts, not personal opinion. Obviously you should consider personal opinion, but run the logic first. Personally, I prefer not to use an AAD on CRW jumps. I think they are a great idea in many other situations (even though the only AAD I own is my left hand ). However, I also recognise that there are possible scenrios in CRW where an AAD would save my life. My choice.

Halleluja Brother Spacy Tracy. You better be quiet though, the powers that be may find your sense of logic far too simple and confronting to their laziness and lack of desire to really learn the fundamentals of the sport. Where do you get this crazy idea that bandaids and complex solutions to SIMPLE problems are detrimental to one's health. You are far too far out of line. Common sense. Hah. That is soooooooo 90's. Get with the times. p.s. its a struggle sometimes! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Get everyone to chip in some $$, and get one of the volunteer first aid orgs to train a number of jumpers. Pay them back with a tandem skydive or money or something. I've used my first aid training too many times on BASE jumps. Glad I had it. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Jaap Its cool to see people doing a lot of thinking & discussing. There seems to be a lot of discussion / debate / etc about various gear issues and configurations. One thing that people have to remember is this: NO MATTER WHAT BANDAID/OTHER SOLUTION YOU COME UP WITH TO RESOLVE PERCEIVED OR REAL PROBLEMS WITH EQUIPMENT, YOU STILL HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF HUMAN ERROR ENTERING INTO THE EQUATION. Human error is one of the main (if not the main) root causes in all accidents. Increasing the complexity of a system in order to reduce the likelihood of one problem occuring is very likely to lead to other problems occuring. By definition, increasing complexity means a system is harder to manage if a situation deviates from the expected. People are more likely to react incorrectly in the face of increased complexity and higher stress. The second thing that needs to be considered with ANY perceived or real problem is the root cause. If there have been 1000 riser releases in skydiving using 3 rings, does that mean they are dangerous? You have to look at the root cause of each situation or the collective situation if someone has done all the number crunching already. If for example, you find that all the riser releases occured on a certain type of gear whilst inexperienced jumpers were performing a certain maneouvre, then you fix that scenario. The problem is then minimised. Most three ring releases occur because: - cable is too short. - cable is too short. - loop is far too large. - loop is incorrect material, improperly installed, or excessively worn. Not many people replace this loop yet it does wear out. - cutaway handle is not firmly attached to its "mounting position" - i.e. worn velcro, etc. - the cutaway handle it to "catchy". I recommend the soft loop behind the lift web for BASE gear or a lower profile handle. - the cable is far too exposed to catch points, especially near the cutaway handle or the loop. - design issues - one that comes to mind is routing. If the cable is routed in a complex fashion around the harness/container and the path is not firm (i.e. the cable can be tensioned/loosened by the parachutist moving in the harness), there is a chance that the cable can be pulled / cutaway. Check the worst case cable length by packing the gear and then pulling and twisting it to see where the end of the cable ends up. - etc. I check my 3 rings on every jump (30 secs), and I do the flex tests frequently. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Think less. Maybe not jump anymore!!!! Think more. Maybe jump less. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.