TVPB

The post has lots of lesson for all newbies to heed. Anyway, as I was saying . . . . . . . . . But I still have to ask the question, "Why in bloody hell's name do people ignore this information when it is readily available"? Oh well, another few months will pass and someone else will write the same thing. I think people should just cut and paste the fatalities, the incidents, and the learnings. It would save them lots of time. After all, it seems that many people don't have much time nowadays. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Oh yeah - last bit. NEVER go to someone else's house and insult them. No matter how much you think they are dick's, it is their place. You know, political correctness, don't offend your host, etc. Of course, if it gets too much, then just leave. There is no real point in arguing unless you have an immensely important cause. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Brian There seems to be a lot of passion in this thread. Much of that passion seems to be directed at you. But it is not at you personally, it is more at the approach and content of what you have requested. Remember that the following is meant as constructive feedback that could be used to improve your future chances of success in your chosen endeavours. My thinking and some suggestions: - your intent is probably reasonable. You are trying to make a name for yourself in the "extreme sports" video market and you believe that the participants of your production would benefit from some level of exposure. Remember that most BASE jumpers do NOT require or desire exposure. In fact, most shun it - their passion is private, not something that they necessarily wish to share. The ones that require exposure already know how to get it. They are also selective in who they deal with. You will probably find someone who will do it for nothing, but the danger is that your production will be of limited quality. - you have entered this forum to fulfil your needs and desires and you have made what could only be described as an unprofessional attempt to attract interest. You have just registered on the forum - so you have no history. You have not given any real information about yourself that would lend credibility to your proposal, your professionalism, your ability to actually achieve your stated objectives, or your ability to provide the exposure you are promising. There is no full name (I am guessing at Brian Bourke), no links to previous works, no method of personal contact, nothing a real substance. - your approach is more relevant to your intended market (the 3 second attention span Pepsi Max generation), than the general BASE jumping community. Many of the participants in this sport are articulate, educated, intelligent, etc, people. Most are helpful when approached with a sound / logical / reasonable argument. Most will assist if approached in the correct way. You should spend some time in researching how to propose something before just throwing it on the internet. Whenever you are proposing something, you should be thinking "what can I give to the other person"?, what etiquette / culture should I follow in order not to offend my potential customer / client / partner, how can I make the whole deal attractive for them?. Don't just assume that people want what YOU think they want. Spend some time to find out what they really want. - don't make promises that might not eventuate. Back up your claims with some real evidence. - get someone to spell check for you. If your proposal is grammatically incorrect in this age of spell checkers, how if your production going to look like? - a bit of humility would not go astray. You should also cover the jumpers costs and go out of your way to get what you want. Don't have this expecation that everyone will just jump for you (pardon the pun). - this comment clearly shows to me that you have not got any real plans on what you are producing. Distributors will only do work for you if you show them what your intended content is, quality, intended market, etc. Some suggestions: - make up a website, you can build these for free / cheap and they are an easy way to provide information for potential customers / clients / business partners / JV partners / contractors / volunteers / etc. Put some of your work on there - video, photo's, published or broadcast material, etc. - make your approach a little more professional. Spell checkers, contents, contact details, a synopsis of your project / proposal, etc. - remember it is YOU that want something. Don't make it sound like you have got something that everyone wants, especially when you are the visitor to a structured social group such as this forum. - do not lie or grossly over-estimate yourself, your project, etc. Do not make promises without any real basis. If it is a low budget, first time project, than say so. You are more likely to get help. - show that you have some involvement or street cred in "extreme sports". What have you done? etc.. Good luck with it all. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Luke IMHO - your thoughts, sentiments, and your post, are very appropriate. It seemed like a good balance between expressing your own mortality and human nature (making silly decisions), and a desire for people to make an effort to progress in a safer manner. In the end, 99.9% of participants in BASE jumping are adults who ARE capable of making decisions. They have sufficient information, resources, and people, available to them to make appropriate decisions nowadays. Anyone who wants to short cut a well defined process without including a robust risk management strategy, or chooses not to pursue reliable information, is TOTALLY responsible for their outcome. I am VERY sympathetic to the families that lose one of their loved ones. I have had to inform a mother of the death of her child and I know what it is like. Unfortunately, the story you are describing in your post is becoming more and more common. Intentional ignorance leading to serious incidents is downright selfish behaviour. It rons families and friends, and it robs the sport too. You referred to the Australian BASE jumping scene. Your concerns are very relevant downunder as well. This is made more obvious by our "contribution" to the list, and the number of and reason for incidents that have occured downunder. In the end, if you can make one person rethink as a result of your concerns, you have achieved the miracle of life and I think it is the right thing to do. If others don't give a shit and they pursue the shortcuts, then don't worry, that was their choice. To the ones in between (i.e. their intent was good and their actions were not deliberate), I can only say bad luck. It could happen to any of us. p.s. I just wanted to add, it is not that relevant whether a person is nice or not. The important consideration is whether or not their decision making process is logical, reasonable, fair, considerate, and unselfish. I would rather jump with an areshole who is well trained and progressing relative to his/her ability than a person who is nice but is a high incident risk. It does not matter how nice a dead person is. Your friends and loved ones need you!!! Don't deprive them just for a quick fix. Don't deprive yourself of all the amazing jumps and locations you can do / visit as your jump numbers increase. Do the right thing. Both for yourself, and for others. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Well, we've only recently passed BASE #1000 and we are getting close to #100 on this list. I hope it never happens but reality tells me it is only inevitable. Hopefully the ratio is getting smaller (BASE # : fatals) which is a good thing. Lets see if we can hold #100 off for a long time. At moments like these, someone I knew would be pulling out short straws. Keep it simple. Attend to the fundamentals. Do the right thing for you, your gear, your jump, and the conditions. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Off the top of my head, I just counted 26 jumped sites for my local state capital. There are a bunch of other sites that other people have jumped. My log book may have more details. There are also a number of jumpable sites that have not been jumped. We have probably another 25+ objects within 2 hours of the CBD. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

OK. . . . . . No, can't do it. As if I am going to keep quiet. Nothing at all. I can't believe I have held this charade for this long, and everybody fell for it. Never. What is a BASE jump anyway. I thought this was a bitching forum. Does anyone know the link? Seriously though, why do people on this forum throw in that question when blunt advice is given? What significance does that question have in relation to the actual post and its content? Might be a topical question to conduct a poll on? Sorry, this is a bit too cryptic for me. My lonely single brain cell can't create a link with this comment and my previous post. Can you help? I have no neck - I am a former football (rugby league) player!!! Would you like someone else who is not like me to say it instead? "Good luck in Iraq. And better luck when you get back." Can you help me translate this into a positive statement? My linguistic abilities are limited and I find it difficult to articulate my point. I am a negative prick after all. - - - - - - - - - to gofast_ER When you say, "stuff it, if no-one will help me, I'll do it myself", you are laying a guilt trip. It is akin to a child at school saying: "if you don't give me a lolly, I won't be your friend". I might be wrong, but . . . . . . . Yes, it is VERY frustrating trying to get into BASE. I virtually went the solo route. But this was over a decade ago when opportunities were limited. But I know this is NOT the best option. I am trying to make the point that with a little effort, you will achieve your goals. And I hope you do. That is why I wished you luck. This was genuine. But you have to be realistic too. There are many opportunities around the world for training. Norway, USA, continental Europe, etc. If you really want training from others, it IS available. Maybe the local BASE jumpers in your area are wankers and they do not want to help. Maybe they are really nice people who do not want the responsibility of teaching someone. Maybe they are genuinely concerned for your welfare. You may be the reason for their current unwillingness. I don't know because I am not familiar with the situation. You have to work out the reason, and then resolve it. "Fuck it, I'll do it myself" is not the answer. Probably. Most people judge. It's human nature. About me. your judgement is incorrect. If you attempted the pre-requisites, showed potential in terms of skills and personality, I would do what I could to help you. No problems. If you asked me to do something I did not want to do, I would not help. Time and experience has taught me that certain things work, and others do not in the BASE jumping environment. It is important to do things right. I know that my experience is being superseeded as we speak. Skills, techniques, and technology are all advancing. My thoughts and opinions will have to change. But there are still fundamental principles that must be adhered to whilst learning to BASE jump. If you want to increase your odds for survival. I don't want to be around an inexperienced jumper attempting difficult jumps and objects. There is a simple reason. Rescuing the severly injured on trying to retrieve the dead is no fun. I am tired of it. If an accident happens, so be it. But I have no desire to expose myself to an increasing risk of this occuring. Call this selfish. Call this old fashioned, negative, behind the times, whatever else you want, but is is MY decision and it is my life. Other people may have similar concerns. If you allay those fears, you are more likely to get help. You will understand when you become experienced and some newbie starts hassling you. Great, and good luck. Do the same thing in BASE. You will be rewarded infinitely. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

BTW - are you going to Iraq with NO training, minimal training, lots of training???? Next question - are you going to BASE jump with no / little / lots of training? If you choose to go solo, YOU CHOSE IT. DOn't even think about trying to lay the guilt trip on others. If you are really serious about learning, give TA $$$$ and pay for his time one on one. He may just oblige. I hear he helps people 2x p.a for nothing too. Apply. Lots of research and can't find a mentor are contradictions. Your research would have led you to two main options r.e. training: 1 - ground crew, beg, grovel, steal, help out, SPEND TIME 2 - pay someone for their undivided assistance. To get others to help you, you are obligated to meet certain criteria. Do the prerequisite skill building in skydiving, ground crew, pay money, be nice, whatever it takes. I am not even going to comment on the above quote. Yes I am - I can't help myself. You are contradicting yourself. Leave the guilt trip for someone else. Safety and self taught????? Come one. Who are you trying to kid? If you want to throw yourself off something without guidance and you end up dead, that IS YOUR DECISION. Most BASE jumpers will not feel guilty afterwards. They will just have the shits that you were so selfish and undermined the reputation of the sport because of stupidity and stubborness. Now lets try this whole things again. Start researching again. Make a real effort this time. Call the FJC people and get some info. If you have to travel to find a mentor, so be it. How much do YOU really want it???? Good luck in Iraq. And better luck when you get back. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

A few people get offended by Ray's bluntness on these forums. Here is my perspective (male BASE jumper)and opinion of Ray's posts. Ray is OK. In some respects he purveys an image of a typical mid USA, red neck, right wing, American, but is OK nevertheless. He has a unique way with words which lacks political correctness and aristocracy. In many instances it is necessary. A thing about Ray - he was a part of the Portland crowd. People like Dwain, Slim, Dr Nick, etc were his earlier jump buddies. That experience really shapes and changes your perspective on BASE jumping. And when you see people repeat known mistakes without making much effort to fix them, it is frustrating. Ray is trying to say to people to do it right and give themselves the best opportunity for survival. He (and many others) have seen too many new kids on the block blatantly ignore the hard earned experience of others and put themselves at unecessary risk. I knew or have met many elements of the Portland crowd. Especially DW. I broke the news to his mum when he passed away. I have seen lots of blood and guts in my life, but telling a mother that her son had died is worse than ANYTHING else in the world. Ray is tying to help. He does not want others to have to break the news to family and friends, especially when it is a cheap / wasted opportunity. He wants the sport and it's participants to survive, jump together, have fun, build skill, etc. Mistakes are OK, but when they are borne of laziness, arrogance, blatant ignorance, etc, they are wasted opportunities. He's just not very subtle about it, that's all. As I have said in the past, subtlety does NOT work for a growing number of people. A sledge hammer is the only solution. The more you see fundamental mistakes, the more frustrating it is. For every 1000 fundamental mistakes. You might get a dead person. For every 500, you might get a serious injury. For every 200. you might get a simple injury. For every 10, you might get a near miss. I think Ray is trying to reduce the rate/frequency/volume of fundamental mistakes so that the other ratio's mentioned above take much longer to achieve. In that respect, Ray's pursuit is noble and very Samaritan like. Akin to a very disciplined parent. I hope Ray keeps trying to save lives in his own unique way. If you can see the intent through the delivery, his advice is useful. If all you see is the delivery and you are not interested in the content, well . . . . . . that is saying something about you. One life saved . . . . . . . . . . is one less website update for NDG!!!!!!!! - - - - p.s. Life is all about perspective and perception. It is what you think it is, not what someone else thinks it really is... If you can work that one out, feel free to explain it to me. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

This should NEVER be the conclusion. It only becomes so when people don't know the real reason. Everything that happens in BASE could be explained by physical and aerodynamic principles. Just because we (jumpers) cannot see the vital clues or do not have th experience to assess a situation or don't want to admit realities, it does not mean that there isn't a logical explanation. Over time we have improved immensely on how to explain why things happen. More time will give more explanations. More video will allow for better analysis. Gods, demons, and freaks are not the reasons for mishaps. To ericmillionaire. You are ssssooooooo ssssseeensssssstive (spoken with a gay lisp). People in these forums are harsh at the best of times. e.g There are some idiots on forums, some that have a certain way with words (I love your directness Ray but you still gave the guy a chance to be accepted by your final comment), or some other psychological problem. They could also be well meaning but blunt, You get that way when you see your friends and colleagues dying doing stupid things. However, you should listen when some gives you advice that you may not necessarily want to hear. E.G - when several people say that you fucked up, it may be true. If you are not prepared to accept this. Your future in the sport is questionable at best. Hey, I am a very experienced and long term jumper. And I still stuff up. I have newbies telling me how to improve certain aspects of my BASE jumping. As much as I challenge people and make them feel uncomfortable, I also accept the possibility (or likelihood) that they may be right. This is great for personal development. Beginners are terrible at estimating time when they are involved in the action, irrespective of whether they are spectators or participants. I know a bloke who did a floater off a bridge, had a 45 right, and hit the pylon on the next bridge. His comment was "that thing came up on me so fast, I had less than a second to deal with it. . . . .". The video showed 3.5 seconds which is heaps of time. Therein lies a problem. People finish university degrees and no stuff all!!!!! A FJC is what is says - a FIRST JUMP course. They are not advanced skill courses. Do not kid yourself. You do know a FEW things about jumping after a FJC, but the reality is that you need to know a LOT OF THINGS about jumping to be able to consistantly and safely make jumps off a variety of objects in a variety of conditions. The sooner you learn and accept this, the better. Another point about your riser control. You MUST be on BOTH rear risers for heading correction on EVERY jump early in your jump career. Your experienced mentor should have drilled that into you. You shouldn't jump objects with strike potential until you have this as an automated / second nature response. Once you get experienced, then you can decide toggles/risers/pockets/shoelaces or whatever else. As Ray so succintly puts it, this is a fuck up on your part. If you were not taught this, it was a mistake on the part of your mentors/instructors. People who make mistakes in this sport NEED / MUST HAVE immediate / direct / honest / blunt feedback when mistakes occur. You do NOT want to keep making mistakes and having people pussy foot around you. You DO NOT want people to keep quiet because you are sensitive. A little reality is a lot better than a pile of blood and bones. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG Only if you do not want to learn it. The aircraft environment is not perfect for learning the subtleties of BASE canopy flight, but you can/will become intimately involved with all aerodynamic characteristics of your chosen wing IF you make an effort to learn. Try this one. Take your canopy for an aircraft jump, deploy. Practice ALL your control inputs. Now shut the canopy down or just bring it as close as possible to the stall point (do this both before and after releasing your brakes), guess what? you are close to a DBS full inflation situation. Just like on a BASE jump. You can simulate MANY aspects of BASE jumping on skydives IF you are open to the possibility. Yeah, it is not exactly the same as having gnarly rock 10 feet off your back, but it helps. DAMMIT, LISTEN TO ME. IT HELPS. If you want it to. Then there are cutaways. then there are Mr Bills, then there are . . . . . . . . . . OPEN YOUR MINDS TO THE POSSIBILITIES THAT ARE STARING AT YOU!!!!!!! He is an adult, he made a stupid decision (by the sound of your comments). There are reams of information around saying what is good and bad. HE chose not to follow. I tried helping for many years. Now I only focus on those who really want help. I think you will find that even the bitter and twisted on the forums here will help those who want help. You can lead a horse to water . . .but you can't make him drink. You can give a BASE jumper as much help as he needs, but if he chooses not to take it. . . .whose decision is that?? Someone asked why eric jumped after he backed off for 15 minutes. This is normal human behaviour. I have done that on early jumps, and much later jumps. There comes a time when you should come down, but backing off is OK. eric - it is up to you to show strength of character and a little humility as well. Accept that you made a mistake (you did hit a wire), and move on from it. It's great that you posted it as we can learn from it. Learn as much as you can. Talk to experienced people. Accept a bit of shit, give a little back. That is life. That is BASE jumping. It happens to even the best of them!!!!! Well said. That is for Ray!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Which one of the Raven and Fury would I choose? Fox, Flik, Troll, Ace, Blackjack, Rock Dragon, etc. Whilst the aforementioned are good experience, the ideal is to learn on the canopy you will end up using. And ANY canopy experience is better than no/little canopy experience. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Lets give some extreme examples of caring and not caring. Would you be offended, pissed off, angry, or happy if I took a "dump" in your kitchen whilst you were preparing dinner? Would you be offended if I slashed your lines and pulled your reserve just before you were about to do a jump you were really looking forward to doing? What if I slipped my tongue down your throat wihout your permission??? As I said - extreme examples, but . . . . . . Lets look at it another way, what if someone actually cares for you and they want to offer some advice that will keep you alive, or develop your complement of skills, or keep you in the clique of some local society that you are a part of (there are benefits to belonging)? Would you just ignore this and not give a shit? It is true to say that there are many negative people in society, people that lack achievement orientation, and people who just don't know. If you listened to all of them your life would be less adventurous, unfulfilling, etc. But you are also a part of society. The fact that you inhabit buildings, earn money, have employment, etc means that you have decided to become a part of society to the extent that you have to sacrifice some (NOT ALL) of your anarchistic desires. Now for media attention. If someone does something that the general public deems as daring and the perception is created that it is illegal, and the authorities could not catch them, how do you think the local authorities would feel? If I was a cop in small town America, and some punk kept robbing my local businesses and I could not catch them, do you think I would feel like a failure? Do you think that maybe I would like to make amends and prove to the community that I am capable of fulfilling my perceived duties? Do you think I might talk tough and act tough on the off chance that I caught the offenders? It does happen. Both for crime . . . . . and for BASE jumping. Just ask those jumpers that have had rifle buts smashed against their skills whilst they were trying to protect the identity of their colleagues. Just ask those local jumpers who cannot access their local object because some out of town punk came flying through town and thumbed his nose to the local police whilst jumping in broad daylight. Just ask those jumpers who have been grilled by authorities because some "jumper" atttempted something well beyond their ability and ended up severely injured or dead. Being independant, trying to live and achieve beyond the constraints of a "safety conscious, conservative society, and exploring your personal boundaries is one thing. Saying I just don't give a shit what other people is another thing entirely. One is about pioneering, excelling, contributing to society. The other is just plain selfish and stupid (IMHO). TO answer your questions directly: r.e. skydiving - I don't care what they say in the media. It is an established activity and INDUSTRY, and it will be next to impossible to stop it from occuring. Hence I will always be able to participate (selfish huh). Media can have either effect on the industry. r.e. the authorities - more accidents just means more paperwork and more scrutiny. That is not good nor fun. r.e. BASE jumping. Accidents are NOT good for the sport!!! Just take a look at all the hard work that goes on around the world to keep objects open after accidents. Look at Bridge Day, the Fjords of Norway, the big walls of Italy, the National Parks and Public land areas in the USA, various sites around Australia, etc, etc, etc. There are a lot of people trying to keep these open to jumpers and minimise the intervention from the non-jumping public and authorities. This makes it easier for you and me to turn up and jump. If you respect their efforts, then we will always be able to jump locally instead of having to travel far away. Jumping locally means we can remain current. This improves safety and decreases the likelihood of accidents at the "tourist" BASE sites. It means that knowledge AND experience can be spread further and in more detail (no hiding or running required - hence you can spend more time at the sites - this is valuable). Media attention attracts the pepsi-max generation of jumpers which increases the likelihood of accidents at a particular site. There are more severe injuries nowadays at sites that were relatively incident free years ago due to the type of jumper being attracted to the sport. It is a well known theory/fact that a skydiving accident will attract these type of people to slydiving. That is all well and good when they are taken by an experienced Tandem master. But this is a lot more difficult to control in BASE jumping. Hence, you should care. Because there really is a lot more at stake than just your desires. If someone else beat you to it, you may not even get a chance to try the thing you really want to do. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

This is not a bad thing to realise/think/feel. You CAN die BASE jumping. But it is not just a function of luck or a blind acceptance that it is such a high risk sport that you have no chance to survive. If you believe that you might as well put a bullet in each chamber and go play Russian Roulette. YOU CAN do many things to mitigate or minimise the dangers. IF you decide you want to. Lets put this statement in context. You can die crossing the road, playing lawn bowls, fishing, riding your bike, etc. In that context, of course you could die on every BASE jump. BASE is riskier than skydiving? Yes and no. If you are talking averages (number of jumps, types of jumps, etc, it is absolutely correct. But if you are talking specifics, then it is not necessarily correct. The point I am trying to make is as follows: when individuals talk about the risks of BASE jumping, they are generally concerned for their own welfare and are trying to get a measure of "is it worth me participating in this activity"?. "Am I going to get injured or die"? They are trying to ascertain whether or not they should participate. Some are looking for an answer or method that says it is not risky. Some like to imagine it to be extremely risky in order to satisfy a deep underlying psychological need. There are a million reasons for the various opinions on risk and reward in BASE jumping. You have to find out what your underlying "thing" is and then try to answer the question in that context. If you are after danger, then yes, BASE can be extremely risky. Just go and do a high degree of difficulty manouvre on an advanced site and you will satisfy your craving.. At a higher risky. If you are after safety and comfort, etc - do all the training, get all the right gear, master the basics, take one step at a time, be realistic about your suitability for the sport, etc. You will reduce your risk immensely. My opinion on the risks / rewards thing - you CAN control the risks in both activities to such a point that it becomes as safe as other activities in life. You can go to the other extreme too. That is one of the beauties and problems with these sports. But it is YOUR decision to make. You determine the risk level by what you decide to do and not to do. Whether this decision is conscious/sub-conscious, with information, without information, under the influence, sober, etc does not matter. YOU make the decision. If you get killed or badly injured, you can't blame the activity for the decisions you made. If I make a dumb decision and pulled it off. That is luck. If I don't pull it off, that is expected (as opposed to bad luck). It would be nice to have the benefit of hindsight in a lot of accidents. That would have prevented most of them. But hang on a second.... We DO have the benefit of hindsight in many cases. People have made the same stuff ups before and it has been public knowledge... Hence, if you REALLY want to prevent most accidents, you can. That is if you want to. Reward is always a personal thing. A first time jumper will have the Big O and their first bridge jump. But a 1000 jump veteran might be a little bored. The reward to risk is much lower for the experienced jumper (aim is a high number). EVERY jump - if you want to reduce the risk and increase your life span in the sport. You, your equipment, the weather, etc, may be different on EVERY jump. Hence, you should treat every jump as different. You also decide before you take up BASE if it is really what you want, why you are doing it, where you plan to do it, etc. If your motivations are not honourable, your risk level WILL be higher because your level of respect and understanding will be lower. We are human. We make dumb decisions some times. If you make dumb decisions in an environment where your margin for error is minimised, your risk is higher. Is it fine? NO. Unless you do not value your life and it's duration. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Sorry guys and gals. Membership has just closed. I need some money left over to feed my kids... Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Gosh - you BASE jumpers will do anything for money.. Stop being facetious!!!! p.s my previous cheques (checks) are going on Nick's list. He is just not sure which one!!! if you don't get it . . . . . . . . Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Really. They might be looking for some info too????? A little bit more research and you will find what you are looking for...... Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

He he he. Don't worry RL, I will continue to torment the unsuspecting and the expecting. My excuse for being brief: I went rock climbing yesterday and did about 5 hours straight on grade 5.8 to 5.10 after not getting an ounce of sleep the night before. My fingers are hurting so much that I could not be bothered typing!!!!!! Tender office boy hands you know!!! p.s thanks for the compliments to both yourself and Tom. And folks. My opinions are exactly that. I could be right. I could be wrong. It us up to yourselves to do your own due diligence!!!!! Wow, I am impressed. I have a two person fan club. Your cheque (check) is in the mail. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Moochooser. There are lots of reasons for not naming sites. Some are selfish, some are showing concern for the safety of others, some are to protect fragile environments, some are due to established relationships with local authorities, some are due to the expectations of local authorities and the desire of people to maintain status quo, etc, etc, etc. Some reasons in particular why your local site should remain nameless: - check the signs on the west side. "Good Samaritans . . . . . ." (you're homework is to go find this sign and work out why it is good to minimise the number and risk level of people who jump there - c.f. community relationships). - if you miss the landing area, there are many hazards that may kill/injure. PM me if you want to know why. - The type of object that it is may attract lessor experienced jumpers. My memory of the site is that it is not favourable for beginners (esp if deficient in canopy skills). - there are people watching. Jumpers who research sites on the net (etc) and choose to do the site, may not be ethically aware and attract unwanted attention from authorities. This may lead to tightening up access to the site. Bottom line - if you attract just one idiot to a site and they die. You are doing a disservice to the sport, to the site, to the locals that jump it, to the family of the deceased, and to the local community. If you mention a location as a BASE jumping site, some people may see that as license to jump it. i.e. if a BASE jumper calls a site a site, then you must be able to jump it. If not, then maybe it is not jumpable. You may have some kid on your local area that does not have the capital to travel and jump, but if they hear that there is a local object, they go ahead and jump it. This HAS happened. Regarding the argument that other sites are mentioned or there are other ways of finding sites (topo maps, search engines, etc). this is a moot point. Your job as an individual interested in this sport is to minimise negative events or interactions with the outside world. It does not matter what other people do and say. You, as an indivudal, shoud do the right thing. If one person does not read one comment that you decided not to print, that literally may mean the difference between life and death. It may also mean that people can continue to regularly jump and object, and that loved ones will not have lost something dear to them. This is why site naming etiquette is important. ps. You cannot compare full time legal jumping sites to sites that do not have open permission for jumping activities. They are twp differnt things. Regarding video's. IMHO, you are correct with the statement that they may attract the wrong person to the wrong site. Actually naming them using words is worse and makes it VERY EASY to determine their location. Unless they are a popular/known location of course. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Tracking occurs during freefall!!!!!! It IS a freefall skill. It is a one subset of skills that include the control/deflection/awareness/etc of relative airflow. Tracking is VIP in BASE. But it is not as important as exit skills. By this I mean that if you can't get yourself into a tracking position in the first place, who cares how good you are at tracking!!! The next most important "freefall" skill is 3-d awareness. The next most important skill is knowing how to get your body into a suitable position following instability/imperfections/aerobatics/etc. You can break tracking down into skill subsets. One is the ability to gain stability and initiate/accelerate away from an object. How fast you track is not as important as how efficient you are (this is a relationship between height consumed and horizontal distance travelled). If you are the fastest tracker in the world but you fall 1000 ft for everyone else's 500 feet, then . . . . . this is not so good on the underhung/talus sites. You're flamed!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

To the general posting public - I'm going to cut the crap (for those that like 2 second responses), if you don't think skydiving experience is beneficial than you are an ignorant idiot!!!!!!! Analogy - In laymans terms, self gratification can be a benefical precursor to love making....... Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

The resistance to turbulence thing is a function of the pressurisation of a canopy. The more pressurised a canopy, the less likely that it will be affected by variations in air pressure (turbulence is a function of pressure and relative motion of air particles). Hence a higher wing loading will tend to pressurise a canopy better simply because air is being "rammed" into the nose of the canopy (hence ram air canopy ) faster than a canopy at lower wing loading. Cross braced and locked canopies handle turbulence better because the air flow out of the canopy is more restricted than a standard open nosed canopy. Now, why do some people think that turbulence is worse on higher loaded canopies? It is probably because a smaller canopy or highly loaded canopy tends to be more responsive to changes in its flying characteristics. A 3 inch input on a VX69 will produce much more dramatic results than a 3 inch input on a Fox285. Similarly, if 1 metre cubed of air is knocked out of a smaller canopy, it will have a greater affect than if the same volume is knocked out of a big canopy. But the point is, there is much more chance that air will be displaced from an underloaded canopy as there is less force keeping it pressurised in the first place. And this brings me to my conclusion. I think it is much better to be a fat BASE jumper because you will get faster landings and you can jump in higher winds as the turbulence will affect you less. I have developed my physique over many years for just this reason. My natural body shape is that of an elite body building athlete, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices in life to achieve elite performance!!!!!! Just don't jump in shitty, tight arse, low, flat, countries like Australia!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Santorini has been done. But.... If you look at most of the pictures in the links you have provided. many of the "big walls" are sloped or stepped ledges. Doh! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Excellent piece of advice. Coming from a fellow fat bastard, lose weight. That will fix your wing loading!!!! Being a student, you should not have enough money for food anyway. Hence your weight should NOT be a problem. You should be spending it on other vice's!!!!! Seriously - a higher loading means that your flaring performance has to be better and more efficient to get the same result. You will have a little more speed for a given brake configuration. This can translate to the requirement of more runway (larger landing area), etc.. Gotta go. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

BASE??? Safety??? Risk??? These are relative terms that are dependant on many factors. How safe YOU are in BASE is mainly determined by the decisions you make before, during, and after each jump. My safety and risk level will be different to yours. It will also be different for me with different jumps that I make. All the equipment, technique, object access, training, skill, etc, will not help much if you make very poor decisions. In this scenario, it is not BASE jumping that is more dangerous, it is the individual that is participating. A relatively safe jumper does a good job of risk management, that is, reducing the risks of the sport to an acceptable level. A dangerous jumper is one that increases the complexity and the number of variables in a jump without adequate risk management. For example, trying several new skills on the one jump instead of learning them separately. The biggest variable in any activity is the human participating. If you can manage that, you are well on the way to minimising risk and danger. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

And that is why I like your responses. You are an open minded, intelligent individual who does not follow the masses!!! But I also like to challenge anyone and everyone. Debate is just a bit if fun for me. Keeps the brain functioning. p.s. The Tasmania example is interesting. The Dutch were there before, but they did a different thing to the English. Thousands of years beforehand, the Aboriginals arrived. The only thing that was different was that when the English came in, they killed and controlled, claimed to be the first/pioneers, and stole what belonged to someone else. This sounds too much like . . . . . . . . I too do not know Jimmy. I can only go on his communications on the net. I too do not like to jump on bandwagons and follow the frenzied beliefs of the masses. But I am always open to possibilities and to being proven wrong. I hope I am wrong.. Getting back to the original question, I thought I had a stab at answering it in another thread - click on the link below if interested. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2055215;#2055215 Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.