zelda

Ummm...you missed my point entirely, which was prefaced by saying that I am not among those who will try to tell anyone that skydiving is safe. We can trot out fatality rates for any activity, and almost all of them will be higher than that for skydiving, and it's not because those activities are safer. My point is, there ARE NO fair examples. Comparing skydiving fatality rate to car accidents is ridiculous--how do you equalize the activities? Can't do it by miles driven/fallen, can't do it by number of trips/skydives (you see where I'm going with this); you can't compare experience or training. There is no way create an even playing field to use for comparison, and I don't think there should be. Jumping out of airplanes is inherently dangerous--I think it's more dangerous than driving to the corner store, or the DZ, or across the country. I'm trying to think of something that I believe is more dangerous (snake handling, maybe?), and I'm not coming up with much. I mentioned the drowning in riptides statistic because it so beautifully illustrates a point I've tried to make before: I believe that fatality rates for other activities are higher than fatality rates for skydiving for two reasons, 1) more people participate in (many of) those activities, and 2) the rates are higher BECAUSE THEY'RE LESS DANGEROUS! People go to the beach (or for a drive, or whatever) and think that the worst thing that can happen is that they'll get a sunburn. They get careless and complacent, they get into a situation that they don't know how to handle, and often, they get dead. Skydivers are very well aware (I hope) of the risks they are taking, and have trained for and drill emergency procedures accordingly. I don't know about you, but I'm a WHOLE lot more anal about gear checks, emergency procedure drills and safety in general when I skydive than when I, say, drive to work or go to the beach or dry my hair or what-ever-activity-you-want-to-compare-to-skydiving. Anyway, I think whatever statistics people want to use, even if they were adjusted to show per-capita rates, are misleading and beside the point. Skydiving is dangerous, and whether or not someone participates must be about training and that person thinking long and hard about his/her personal level of acceptable risk. blues -zelda Edited by zelda on 7/25/01 02:43 PM.

Well, this isn't very official, and I'm certainly not arguing that skydiving is "safe," but I saw on the news last night that last year in the U.S., over 100 people drowned in riptides while swimming/wading on the beach...compare with...what was it...32 U.S. skydiving fatalities last year? It's the stuff no one ever considers "risky" that really bites people in the ass...probably BECAUSE they don't think it's dangerous, eh? Oh, and the fatality link in the post above is a really good one; I don't think Barry has them broken down by tandem, but he's got them going back to, I think, 1995, for U.S. and abroad. I've looked at most of them--very few tandem fatalities. -zelda

One of my J/Ms recommended cross-country ski gloves; haven't tried that yet. On my last brutally-cold jump (10 degrees at altitude, not counting wind chill), I wore basball gloves over silk liners...very thin, but plenty toasty! blues, zelda

Michele, I have to tell you that I have really begun to look forward to reading your posts! I've been grounded since November but expect to be back within a few weeks, and reading your stories brings back everything I felt when I was doing it! Oh, glory, do I remember that! HAAAW HAW HAAAA!!!! I remember that, too! Thanks, Michele, for sharing these stories, and doing it so well...if you're not a writer now, you should be. blues, zelda

Hey Zennie, I'm glad you're doing this; I know a lot of people have been scrambling since the insurance companies have been able to exclude coverage on "high risk" injuries. I talked to my HMO a couple of weeks ago...I'm covered through my job with Regence/HMO Oregon, and they said they are NOT denying coverage for injuries from high risk activities (whew!!). I don't know the status of my life insurance, but the safe bet is probably no coverage if I die skydiving. blues, zelda

...here we go....

Well, this is pretty cool, and long overdue! My name is Andrea, and I'm the editorial manager at a leasing inspection company in Portland, OR. It' nice to see what everyone does when they'd rather be doing something else (wonder what that could be....)! -zelda

Had Smash Mouth's "Walking on the Sun" on my first video; wasn't crazy about it then because it was so popular at the time and I was sick of it, but now I associate it with skydiving, so it's all good! hey...I think this is my 50th post...finally! -zelda

Haw Ha! I have a "Far Side" cartoon here in my office (given to me by my assistant--wishful thinking?)--you've probably all see it; it's the one where the guy has dumped and has a grand piano for a main and an anchor as a reserve...I suspect that's what it might be like to have my mother as my rigger--if she was pissed at me...and she's frequently pissed at me! -zelda

My mother was SOOO PISSED when I first jumped; she asked if this was something I intended to keep doing, of course I said yes, and she didn't speak to me for a while. She didn't want to talk about it or hear about it. The rest of my family thought I was out of my skull, but they were never nasty about it. Anyway, when mom realized that there was nothing she could do to keep me away from the DZ, she gradually started to come around...asked lots of questions, called me if she saw something about skydiving on TV, etc. When I had a particularly terrifying Level 5 (harness was WAY too big; very scary) and was so shook up I was contemplating quitting, guess who told me that I had to get my ass back in the plane so as not to allow fear to run my life? Mom!! Anyway, once she confessed that when she joined the Navy back in the 60s, she did so with the intention of becoming a parachute rigger (I'm 30 and never knew that before!), it was pretty ridiculous for her to continue giving me crap about it. She still gets her digs in occasionally, but overall, she's pretty supportive. My dad just says, "Be safe." I've been laid off since November, but as soon as I have the cash, I'll be back...my whuffo friends know that they'll hardly see me at that point, but they're actually pretty cool about it. hooo boy--this got long, didn't it? blues, zelda

yep, you'll probably do this forever. I also have a sort of Pavlovian response to planes flying overhead--I have to stop and look, try to figure out how high it is, and what kind it is. My whuffo friends find this particularly annoying...I stop listening to the conversation and get this sort of dreamy look as I watch the plane go by... blues, -zelda

I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I think that while the fatality rate for a whole lot of activities is higher than that for skydivng, I don't believe that there are many activities (if any) that are more inherently dangerous than skydiving. I also think that's why the skydiving fatality rate is so much lower than that of other activities. Wait, this really does make sense--bear with me. People go skiing, hiking, SCUBA diving, horseback riding, etc., without giving much thought to the risks; hell, they take the whole family! Because there is little perceived risk involved, people get careless. Skydiving, on the other hand, is inherently dangerous. There are things that can and should be done to reduce the risk, but anyone who says skydiving is "safe" is out of their minds. I think it's because we are all very, very aware of the potential danger that the fatality rate is as low as it is. We're a bunch of safety-conscious freaks, whereas a lot of people don't think twice about the risks involved in say, skiing, and the next thing you know, they ski into a tree and are killed instantly. Happens a lot. Anyway, that's my theory... blues, zelda

I have yet to see a mainstream media report on skydiving that wasn't completely botched; they seem much more interested in stirring the pot and muckraking than in getting an objective and accurate story. In the past few months it's begun to look like the mission of the Lodi-area media is to get that DZ shut down. There was actually an editorial in the Lodi newspaper shortly after Jan Davis died which seemed to imply that the Lodi DZ has a higher than normal fatality rate, and that it's because the DZ is not a USPA Group Memember. Interestingly, the writer didn't appear to have even done some cursory research into fatality rates for DZs of comparable size (or any size, for that matter). No doubt they'll be at it again after this. -zelda

Fatality at Lodi... http://www.thekcrachannel.com/sac/news/localnews/stories/news-localnews-83908920010624-190640.html -This is a terrible news story, by the way. My prayers for the family... blues -zelda

Hey Pammi! I'll put in a pitch for Portland; fairly large, but not on the scale of Chicago or anything that big (probably comparable to Austin, TX)...pretty big job market if you're in either I.T. or health. I don't know about the schools; I suppose it depends on what area of the city you're in. Fall and winter are very wet, but it usually doesn't get cold enough to even snow. Summers are warm-to-hot (90s), but not like, say, Arizona. I know of 3 DZs within about 50 miles; two are pretty small, I think; I haven't been to either of them. Skydive Oregon is bigger--they have a Caravan and a Super Otter (used to have a 182 as well, not sure if they still do). Anyway, Portland is very green and pretty; nice communities, lots of smaller towns within commuting distance. Plenty of near-by mountains for skiing, hiking, camping, etc. About an hour and a half to the coast. Happy hunting! -zelda

That's a bitch, Pammi, and kinda scary--does he try to use skydiving against you on this? I don't know how many times I've heard whuffos say something about skydiving being out of the question for people with kids...un-informed dinks; I can just imagine a lawyer getting all up in a lather over that! -zelda

Are we still talking about skydiving?

Well that's clever!! I'll have to try that...more fun in the bathtub -zelda

Zennie, Ahhhh...I get it. Thank you!

Except "line dump." I saw this on the wreck this morning, and am now feeling very ignorant...anyone know what this is? -zelda

Congratulations!! Must feel terrific to get back in the saddle...I'm glad it went well, and I'm happy you told us about it; I did the same thing to my shoulder, and when it was bad, tracking hurt like a bitch so your experience helps put my mind at ease for when I can get back to the DZ! I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only one who can manage to get hurt in freefall without hitting another jumper congrats again and blue skies, zelda

Hey jtval, I've decided that having a camera flyer on an AFF jump is bad mojo; I got talked into getting video when I did my L7, and it was a complete disaster--one of those jumps where everything you do from the time you exit until your feet touch the ground is just crap. Interestingly, my previous jumps (though I did repeat a few) went fairly well. On my 7, I tumbled like crazy out the door, had trouble recovering from the backloop (which was NEVER a problem before), overshot one of my 360s, tracked in circles, and ended up on my back at pull-time (not fun). Are you feeling better about your dive yet? I've read some of the TLOs on the L7 for other drop zones, and it seems that mine requires more that some others; we do a diving exit, 360degree turns right and left, front and back loops, then track. I was so afraid I wouldn't be able to do it all, I rushed myself and ended up messing up the whole thing. *sigh* Eventually... blues -zelda

Skymama, I'm glad I'm not the only one! I thought I must have been a neurotic nut case when I lost 16lbs in a month, just from jump nerves! I've told my whuffo friends that the adrenaline diet is the best weight loss regimen since starvation, but they're just not going for it... -zelda

Like everyone else has said, you're the only one who can decide if you're willing and able to proceed. The best way I've found to control my fear (note that I don't say "conquer," I haven't figured that one out yet), is to think long and hard about what exactly it is that I'm afraid of. Is it freefall? Well, maybe. But, as the DZ manager pointed out one day, there isn't anything about freefall to be afraid of; there is a notable lack of trees and other obstacles at 10k!! As long as you pull, freefall is manageable (knowing that helps you relax and stay stable, by the way). I think my biggest hang-up was exits, which always sucked. But then, I had to stop and think rationally about that, too. I always screwed them up (tumble, tumble, tumble)...on my last jump, I was whining about my tumbling exits to my DZO, who said, "If you go ass over tea-kettle, I don't give a shit as long as you show me you can recover quickly." Hmmm. That takes a little pressure off; I know I can recover almost instantly, so I don't let it panic me. The short version is, break the jump into small, manageable pieces. Think about what scares you about each piece, and tell yourself what you're going to do and why it shouldn't be so scary. -zelda

Hey ColdDuck, I know it's frustrating when you're JMs are telling you to relax all the time and you can't figure out how to do it! I finally had to consciously force myself to do it; I know it sounds like a contradiction, but it works. As soon as I'm out the door and at the bottom of the hill, I do a body scan, meaning that I mentally check what my body is up to. Head up, arms out where they're supposed to be...that's the easy part, you know where you're head is, obviously, and you can see your arms. The tricky part is your legs. Since you can't see your feet, and there's no pressure on the bottoms of them, your brain just forgets that they're there, and so your legs start doing their own thing! Once you force yourself to be conscious of them, you can get them where they're supposed to be. Then you're stable. Once you're stable, it's very easy to relax; you only use what little muscle is required to keep your hips down--the relative wind pretty much takes care of the rest. Once you get the "relax" thing down, you'll wonder why it was so hard (took me several jumps to figure this out)! Hope this helps. blues, zelda