bliston

Don't know if averages will skyrocket. You still need to show separation between each point to get credit for the next, you HAVE TO try to build everything (or get a 3 point bust), and you miss out on a point for anything you don't build and show to the judges. Yes, people with push it a bit more because they only have one point rather than two to lose for a key that comes to fast, but I think top scores will still come to teams that make clean jumps. It clearly helps teams that bust a lot already, but I don't think the rule changes will "enable" teams that are already "breaking and building" together to go faster. Don't know... agreed that the Valentines Day meet will be telling.... Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

The IPC meeting is over, does anyone know when and where rule changes are posted? Does USPA always go along with IPC changes for US National competition? Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

You're right and wrong at the same time. Random work should be "light" and all other jumpers should be doing in lightly touching grips - my team focusses on this a great deal on the creepers and in the air. The inner moves of blocks, though, are a whole different ball game. Thicker and heavier grippers allow piece partners to be aggressive in their moves without fear of losing hold of one another. Valid question, though. Ben MD Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Stick with the big ones, it'll be easier for teammates, or people you are jumping with, if you are doing piece turns. Just add another pound or two. Might as well get used to it now. Don't forget to be aware of any aggressive landings if don't jump with weights for a while and then through them on. 8 - 12 lbs. makes a big difference! Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Yeah, Ed, big grippers (and booties) can affect your fall rate. Guys like us are destined to wear weights - at least for four way. I made my own weight belt with neoprene across the back and some light padding, getting one that is comfortable makes all the difference. We get back at the fast fallers doing four way in the tunnel, though. They keep bouncin' off the grate and chewing up their jump suits every time someone disrupts the airflow. If you wear all your weights in the front and bunch them as close to your belly button as you can, it'll help you go faster than with the same amount of weight all the way around. Don't know for sure why, but having all the weight in the front also seems to help so people with stability. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Whoever posted the links to the PD articles is a wise man/woman. I normally don't respond to these types of questions, but feel compelled to give you some direct advice. Don't go that small. There is no need to go down to a 120 before you have a couple hundred jumps. I've seen plenty of people who are 100-120 lbs. get hurt under 120s just because they got caught up trying to match wind loadings. The PD articles explain it clearly, but in short, because the air molecules don't get smaller as you downside, smaller canopies that are loaded the same fly faster than larger canopies. This isn't just a small mathematical amount, it a real difference that'll bite you in the ass if you end up landing downwind or are forced into a tight landing area. Be careful, jump larger stuff - a 150 and eventually 135 - which you won't be "backing up" under, for a few seasons. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Another reason some companies might choose to use stronger webbing for the front risers is that there is a much larger load placed on them during opening. A manufacturer once told me (I don't have the physics backgroud to verify it) that the majority of the opening load is placed on your "A" lines, then the B, C, D, and brakelines bear less as you towards the tail of the canopy. If I recall correctly, he told me that front risers bear 80-90% of the opening shock. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Who's leaving? Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Fair critique, but they are far from "toads" and a better offer would have to be a spot with the big boys. You are probably right, "committed" might not be the right word. We've all agreed to jump together for another year and we all understand that if someone was presented with a truly great opportunity that are roles as friends would override our roles as teammates. The lucky fellow would leave with a jealous pat on the back and a sincere smile that wished him the best of luck. In short, he'd go on good terms with everyone. While your comments are valid for the sake of the forum argument, the dynamics of any team - including mine - are more complex than that. Anyone that decides to "leave" a team should think long and hard about it. Consider the timing, the time and emotions vested, the potential loss of friendships. After really thinking things through, the person should then make an informed decision about whether the advantages of the new team are truly worth it. Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Just playing devils advocate, but what if a pro-team came to you and offered you a slot or a tryout, would you go? Everybody wants to be part of the best team they can, and if someone on your team gets a great opportunity to jump to the next level, is it "ethical" to hold them back. My team is all in for a second year and we're all committed to each other... but come on, if I or anyone on my team got offered a a spot on a fully sponsored team, I'd hope everyone would give him (or me) their blessing. And if that's something you could agree with, is it a double standard to think somebody moving from an Int. to and Adv. class team or an Adv. to an Open team shouldn't see it the same way? Whoever said, "it's early in the year" has a very valid point. It's one thing if everybody's already invested a ton of time and money, if you've just done a few team hand shakes, it's something else. Lastly, what if the team dynamics aren't that good. Is it fair to expect someone to keep dumping time and the sh**loads of money that 4-way costs if they aren't totally happy when a better opportunity is around the corner? You'll know what I mean if you ever complete a full season with a team that never really comes together. I know a lot of this doesn't apply to your specific situation, but it raises some good questions. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

You can also use the collegiate nationals two way pool from USPA's website. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Thanks for the replies. Glad people had a good time. I am still best friends with Aggies I met through collegiates years ago and have great memories of good competition, swoopin' the style camera, zoo-dive big ways, and scary 1st time crew with the crazies from Texas. I hope civilian teams keep at it for 2005. US Nationals is a great place get more competition experience and get primed up for collegiates. I don't know tons, but I'd be happy to help out any collegiate teams who want to trek out to Perris in Sept. for free. Good luck making it to classes this spring on sunny days, being back in grad school, I can relate to pain. Take it easy, Don't be sleazy, Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

I read the short post on the USPA website, but I'm curious about the 4-way. How was the draw? How did everyone finish? Good times I hope. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

I got a new 306 w/deluxe backpad, and mine was comfortable right away and REALLY comfortable after about 20-40 jumps. I also have a used 306 w/o the backpad (about 500) jumps that is also very comfortable. I wonder if part of the discomfort you were describing was due to not having a that fit properly. A couple of of my friends also got new Microns this year and were very happy right off the bat. I have heard some people say it takes about 50 jumps to fully break in a rig. Vectors may take a bit more time than other other rigs to break in (due to their hearty construction - take a look at the reinforcing & type VII webbing used throughout and compare it with other rigs). That's not to say that other rigs aren't safe, well built, or super comfortable. You just have to weigh all the factors that are important to you. Good luck w/ your decision. If you decide to go with a Vector, check out the recent threads on the Skyhook so you can make an informed decision about that option. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

40K Rig pics. Sorry for the wrinkles, RWS, I'll make it look better this month! Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1368366;#1368366 Check the about thread for what I think was a very thorough discussion on this topic. Sorry, too computer illiterate to make it a link. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

"I suspect you are using 500 or at most 750 spectra. It fits through the grommet better than 1000. It would probably never hang up, but I guess why my ex thinks I am anal." - Sparky I remember seeing a "table total" with a telesis student rig. It was well before I got my rigger's ticket, but I want to say it was either 1000lb. spectra or dacron. Anyways, I've stuck to IIA sleeving since then. You might be anal, but maybe that's better then my paranoia. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Could you explain your logic a bit more... Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

It also includes sewing in an additional flap into the reserve container (the 2A flap) and the tap pockets into the #2 flap, installing the new thicker housing required for the different ripcord... maybe other stuff I'm not thinking of. I don't know if the changing of the reserve ripcord (from pin to the loop that slide over the large RSL pin) and sewing the RSL connector ring into the existing right main riser is included in the cost of the mod. Probablly something to check into. With the price of risers and reserve handles, the cost could add up if changing them over isn't included in the $275. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

Definitely some good points in the above reply, but I'll still stick to my guns on a couple of things: 1. The speed in which the skyhook brings the reserve to line stretch during a spinning or violent mal would make it extremely challenging to "go unstable" even it the jumper was TRYING TO. 2. With the skyhook, you and your reserve might be horizontal in relation to the ground, but the reserve will always be deploying directly over your head. By this I mean in line with your body, not over your head in relation to gravity. I am far from an expert on skyhooks both in terms of experience with them and in terms of knowledge of the physics behind how they work, but I'd encourage you to jump the system on a tertiary rig to feel it for yourself. The reserve becomes almost like an extension of your main rather than a separate deployment. In fact it is. Risers connect to RSL, RSL connects to Skyhook, and the Skyhook is sewn down to the reserve bridle. I'm not smart enough to explain it any better than that. We might see things differently, or disagree on this, which is fine. I just thought I'd clarify my words if they were misinterpreted from the last post. I, in fact, was on my back when my reserve deployed, but my reserve deployed horizontally, much like a main would during a hop and pop. I don't consider this being unstable, but I would consider being on my back as my reserve deployed by my side, or I getting entangled with my reserve bridle, to be unstable. You do make a good point about the ideal reserve deployment position being "feet towards the relative wind" and I completely agree with you. Maybe body position doesn't matter that much, but regardless of what reserves are tested for (unstable or stable deployments), I just prefer to have my body be in line with my deploying reserve. The skyhook helps this happen. 3. I think (and again it's fine for people to have different opinions) that the skyhook is a different league because it drastically increases your chances that your body will be "in line" with the deploying reserve and can put an open reserve over your head in less than a hundred feet from where your risers release. An RSL does not offer those. I've known some very experienced jumpers that have ended up very low after a violent mal and one that went in under a partially inflated reserve. Yes, we should all deploy high enough to deal with any problem, etc, etc, but sometimes **it happens, and the skyhook gives you more time. It also gives you a chance from a 600ft. wrap or collision. Todd Hawkins' incident for example - Thank God he's recovering as well as he is, but I wonder if a skyhook could have helped him walk away from that low canopy collision. Having more altitude to get to an open landing area and see where my chopped gear goes also helps the skyhook make sense for me to use. The more limited advantages that a traditional RSL offers have never made using one appealing to me, and I jumped without one for 8 years. To each his own. I agree with you that the skyhook doesn't answer all the questions and for the types of jumpers you mentioned that want to be sure they don't have any equipment hung up on their main before deploying their reserve. I'll quit rambling, seeing as how I have no real stake in this discussing. Hope this posting helped clarify my views. It wasn't meant to antagonize you. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

I think I disagree that the skyhook is "still an RSL, nothing magic about it." It's a different animal. I have used the skyhook twice (once intentional and once "live"). The skyhook turns your reserve deployment almost into a direct bag deployment. That's a big difference from simply quickly extracting the reserve pin and and letting the reserve PC do it's normal job. With the skyhook, in a spinning or violent mal, you never go unstable relative to your deploying reserve. For my "live" cutaway, I was spinning fast and on my back, but had an almost immediate, on-heading reserve deployment. With the skyhook, you and your reserve might be horizontal in relation to the ground, but the reserve will always be deploying directly over your head. This isn't the case with a normal RSL and where if you cutaway from a violent mal you might be on your back or otherwise unstable through the reserve deployment. This difference, along with the fact that during a low speed mal, the skyhook uses main to get your reserve to linestretch much faster than the reserve pilot chute can, puts the skyhook in a whole different league. I know the skyhook is still relatively new and don't expect everyone to start jumping it tomorrow, but like Ray, I've thought it through and use it on every jump. I'd encourage anybody that's got a Vector III to read up and talk to knowledgable people to get a full understanding of how it works and decide whether it's right for them. It's my understanding that as long as there is pile sewn down over the right side of the yoke, the rig can be modified for the skyhook. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

McRush is wise in keeping documentation. Anytime you are going to something different from the explict instructions of the manufacturer, you should get approval in writing. I am a huge fan of Slinks, use and recommend them for all PD canopies (mains and reserves). I also have used them for Precision reserves (after obtaining permission in writing). Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

I've used tony, bev, and hanne suits. They each have their advantages. I'm a big fan of Bev's booties (I found the FX mod to be worth it). Some people have said that Bev suits "wear out" fast, but I've found them to be the most durable of the three. Ilove the comfort and fit of "suits by Hanne." Hanne's have spandex in the crotch, which can be a lifesaver, and her delivery times are great. One thing for sure is that fit is crucial. It seems like tons of people stick to the manufacture that gets their sizing right, just so they don't have to deal with fit issues for their 2nd or 3rd suits. maybe it's not worth switching if you are happy with what you've got. Ben Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

just go down there a couple of days early, and crank out some jumps. I won a gold one year with a pickup team. Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!

I'm a grad student now, but was an active jumper as an undergrad. College jumpers are the future of the sport. Many national champions made their competition debut at Collegiate Nationals, which is worth every penny to get there. People hail from schools with tons of jumpers and "legacy" clubs and others are the sole reps from their tiny (or large) schools. Trained teams (go Inviscid!) and pickup teams both have a blast. Even after jumping around the world and, last year, on a more serious team, my best skydiving memories and some of my best friends to this day, came from Collegiate Nats. If your on the fence about making the late Dec. trip down to Florida, just think of what Starsky would tell you.... Anybody in Beantown looking for some company in the air, let me know. I'll be doing 4-way again (probably out of Pepperell), but would be happy to jump with anybody on or off student status when I'm not training. A new DZ might be opening with incredible views out in our neck of the woods, by the way. I'd say more but I don't want to jinx it. Conservative in the air? Not from what I've seen (especially out of the old school Aggies) Ben (honorary AOT jumper '98-'00) Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks!