jakee

So what happens in a situation like this when they refuse to fund something they have to do? Does someone with standing need to get a court order for the bailiffs to go into the State House and start selling off the furniture until they find the cash or what? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Only if you define righteousness as 'what god does'. If you define it according to any remotely acceptable moral code, then no. Romans 3 Ok. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Only if you define righteousness as 'what god does'. If you define it according to any remotely acceptable moral code, then no. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Because you have no intention of doing what you said you were going to do, and catch up with responding? See, I actually believed you'd do what you said. You're saying that's a useless thing to do? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You just said the thing we were supposed to believe was a mystery. Now you say it's supported by a preponderance of evidence? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Just like with Trump, bragging that you're more humble than the people you're talking to will generally be taken as evidence of the opposite Exactly, the punishment I would receive is clearly far worse. But why do you think the fleetingly temporary punishment Jesus received is worse than what I would receive forever? You dodged the question last time by saying it was worth more because he was god, you haven't tried to explain how it could possibly be worse. Then how does one serve as replacement for the other? How does the punishment of Jesus 'fulfil' and replace the punishment of men, if the punishment of Jesus is so completely different to and seperate from the punishment of men that they can't even be compared or ranked on a scale? Well, they're both impossible, duh. But you believe they both actually happened and continue to happen, so to you they're both real. And surely, if you really think what Jesus went through is that bad then the answer should be easy, yet you can't bring yourself to say it. Why is that? You said "it pleased Yahweh to crush him (Jesus)." Yahweh is god, right? And Jesus is god, right? So.....? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So ultimately what it all comes down to is that it doesn't make any sense, you don't even understand it yourself, but we're supposed to be convinced by it anyway? Now that’s a “false equivalence.” Umm, not being funny dude, but do you know what 'equivalence' means? I've been quite clear over the last couple of pages that I don't think the two are equivalent. They're definitely two different things. Hence the question, if Jesus's suffering was so bad, would you rather be him and go through every bad and good thing he did, or be like me, and be destined for bad things forever? But that's what you said. You said that god crushed god. I mean I totally agree, it is nonsense - but do you really think that? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You can't have it both ways. How could god have forsaken Jesus while he was being Jesus? Jesus can't suffer more because he is god, if the suffering is caused by being apart from god. Woah there, goalpost shift! You weren't saying his sacrifice was more worthy, you were saying his suffering was worse. To which the question still stands: would you rather live through that punishment, resurrection and eternal reward as Jesus, or face the eternal hopeless punishment you think I'm going to get for being an unbeliever? But how does Yahweh crush Jesus while Yahweh is always intrinsically part of Jesus? Isn't this the "create a rock so big he can't lift it" paradox? Can god be strong enough to crush himself? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Mistake #1: Assuming you are like God (Psalm 50:21). It's not possible to compare human suffering to that of Jesus as the hands of God on our behalf, even an eternity in hell. "When Christ was incarnate as Jesus he was a complete, albeit most holy, human. The physical suffering He endured was only the beginning. On the cross He became sin and suffered spiritual death and separation from God, the Father." Ron says that Jesus wasn't like god when all this happened. Ron says Jesus suffered at the hands of god like humans suffer at the hands of god. Except we get punished forever, whereas Jesus gets rewarded forever. Which is worse? Honestly right, if you had to choose between dying as an atheist and facing the punishment you think I'll face for eternity or being Jesus, which one would you choose? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

What you've just written perfectly exemplifies why theology isn't a real subject. They start with the conclusion and work backwards from there, manipulating the 'reasoning' in whatever ways necessary to make it seem like the first principles fit the result. It is the very antithesis of honesty and intellectual rigour. This Westminster mumbo may be a very fine piece of writing, but as a piece of thought it doesn't even qualify. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Right, because stealing it would have been so much better. This is a great example of how dangerous your divisive worldview is, with truth being entirely subsumed in favour of the partisan lies that support your team and hurt the country. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

That doesn't answer the question. And how many questions of mine do you think you've failed to answer? Why does it matter if I hurt other people when it doesn't matter if I'm super, super, super nice to other people? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Nope. We're saying the same thing. Yes, you're both saying the thing which Ron thinks is directly contrary to biblical teaching. We all know Ron ignores biblical teaching whenever it suits him and leans on his salvation 'get out clause' - what about you? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Why does it matter if I hurt another person? You've already said it doesn't matter how good I am towards other people if I'm not good towards god. Corrupted by sin. Not by God. How does that affect the point that it's not my fault? I didn't corrupt it, yet I have to overcome it, which is impossible for me to do. And no matter how the universe or my nature was corrupted, you said god could uncorrupt it if he chose. But he doesn't. He just sits there watching us, in the full knowledge that every single one of us will fail, and does nothing about it. So again, it's sounds like the situation of being fucked before we've even started is his responsibility. So again, not my fault that I was designed that way. If it's so important, why aren't we redesigned? More confirmation that there is literally no way to avoid sin. No-one can do it. It's so far beyond the reach of humanity it's in a different solar system. So it's not our fault. No one is free of sin until they die. If they’ve repented and placed their faith in Jesus Christ, they will be what the bible terms as “glorified.” Cleansed of all sin. But not until then. The difference, however, during this lifetime was previously described. But just so we're clear - god could choose to regenerate my nature, and the very nature of creation, and enable me to live a life free of sin? That sounds like a pretty textbook definition of 'so it's his responsibility. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You just said we're sinners because someone else once chose to sin. You said it's impossible for us not to sin. So in what way is it our fault that at some point in our lives we will sin? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So how come some of them do? False conversion. Ron thinks you're ignoring biblical teaching when you say that. What do you think? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So how come some of them do? I believe they were Christian in name only, similar to what we call RINOs. They never experienced true salvation. If you're a real christian, why are you so bad at behaving like one? "The Bible also teaches that if a person proclaims they are a Christian we are to accept them as such. We are not to judge their level of faith, their walk or their behavior." Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So how come some of them do? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So wasn't it incredibly patronising of your good friend to say "a person not interested in the concept of heaven, hell or salvation will never respond to intellectual persuasion"? Surely what he meant was "a person believing in the concept of heaven, hell or salvation will never provide intellectual persuasion." Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Nah. Depends on what you lie to them about. If you lie to a guy on the street and it results in him giving you money under false pretences, you coud go to jail for a long time. If you lie to your boss about whether you think his kids are cute, not much will happen. The key is mostly still whether the lie is important in and of itself. Just so we're clear then - the nature of every human being was corrupted long before I was born? That sounds like a pretty textbook definition of 'so it's not my fault'. How am I free to choose if it's impossible for me not to choose sin? Just so we're clear then - god could choose to regenerate my nature, and the very nature of creation, and enable me to live a life free of sin? That sounds like a pretty textbook definition of 'so it's his responsibility. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Why is that amazing? He knew it was going to happen when he created us, yes? According to you, he made us this way. He gave us naturally occuring hormones that affect our higher brain functions in similar ways to some Class A drugs. He gave us hardwired instincts that we share with vicious primates. He gave us rules that run counter to everything our bodies are screaming at our brains to do. And now he acts surprised? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So perfect justice is treating every infraction like murder? Would you be OK with being pulled over for driving with a broken taillight and being given the death penalty? You said it's impossible for us not to sin. God created us. God caused everyone to sin. Ipso facto. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

No, you’re supposed to say “oh I’m sorry, I got you confused with someone else. Of course I’ll go back and answer your questions in the on topic discussion we were having.” But by all means, keep throwing this petty strop instead. It makes you look very manly. If you’re unable to answer any of the questions you left hanging then I guess we’ll know that what I had to say was too intelligent for you. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

There’s a well known saying that unless you can explain something to a 5 year old, you don’t really understand it yourself. If you fail at explaining your beliefs to adolescents, it’s because you don’t really know what your beliefs are. A conclusion is something reached by reasoning and examination of facts. That’s why it’s called a conclusion, it’s the end of a process. You deny that rational thought can explain the spiritual world you believe in, and you deny that facts have any usefulness or value. Therefore, by definition, no-one can find a conclusion with you because you have no conclusions to offer. Do you want to have an ideagasm?