SkydiveMO

That was my belief, and maybe still is, but Brian Germain told me that the opposite is true. That’s not what I want to hear . I just ordered a new canopy with 825lb microline with the hope it would wear better then the 550lb microline. Does anyone know if 825lb microline causes significantly greater parasite drag compared to 550lb microline?

If you've got time to fix your main use it. If you don't have time don't waste it, cut away and pull the reserve. I shoot a lot of video which has me pulling high, I've had a couple wild openings that if I'd pulled at 2,000ft I would have chopped right away. With the extra altitude and time I was able to get things back under my control. I think the leason learned here is watch your altitude closely if you do try and fix a problem. With some malfuctions you can burn up altitude quicker then you think.

I’d like to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts through the message board and PM. It doesn’t take much effort to go beyond the minimum of Arch, relax, and pull when I wave. You can explain how skydivers use their bodies to fly, why we pull when we do and give some general canopy control lessons in addition to this. I'm by no means talking about a first jump course here just that little extra to treat them like a skydiving student not a joy rider. There's nothing wrong with the joy ride if that's what the person is looking for. After all, it is their jump. You can still slip a little learning in under their noses so when they go back and tell their friends they are a one-jump wonder they can sound intelligent doing it. Blue Skies

They are very similar, the best answer is to demo them both and see which you like better. The people who I know who've jumped both were split 50/50 in their preferences. Everyone loved both canopies but there was just something that drew them to one over the other. I kept trying to find out what people thought made the Katana different then the Vengeance but no one could really say. Seems the Katana is lighter on the riser and toggle pressure and a little faster in the turns. I really wanted to know if there was much of a difference too as I was getting ready to order a new canopy. I wanted to know if it was worth waiting around for the Katana 135 to be released or if I should just go ahead and order a Vengeance 135. As no one could really point to why one was better then the other I went ahead and ordered a Vengeance. I'm still on the list for a Katana demo however, with a little luck the 135 will be released soon and I can try it out.

I don't think so, asking a women if she’s put on lead is like asking her when she's due... but she ain't pregnant.

Yeah right! The last time I pointed out an increased fall rate to a female skydiver I nearly got a boot up my hind quarter.

No criticism taken... I too believe in giving each student the training they need to progress in knowledge and experience for the next jump. In all honesty you could pretty much teach everything a first time tandem could ever want to know on the ride to altitude. As you well know this discussion turned philosophical at our DZ and I wanted to open it up to a larger group to discuss. And I do see Chris’ point that it is an apple and oranges debate. So let us remove the time concern and I will rephrase the question… Is it worth the effort to train a tandem student all about the skydive they are about to make when the majority of them will not return? I’m trying to avoid the whole connotation of “tandem factory” as it is derogatory. By no means do I want to turn this into finger pointing or DZ bashing. I think that you would agree that with most first time jumpers moving to quick and easy tandems rather then the traditional first jump courses (AFF, S/L, IAD) there has been a move away from teaching people to skydive. As a tandem instructor I can see how it is easy to loose sight of the larger point of the tandem jump you are about to make. Tandem is one of the methods to help people learn more about skydiving it’s not just a joy ride.

With the start of each new season all the staff at our DZ gets together and discusses the training goals for the year. We look at how well our training programs worked the year before and try to find ways to improve our efficiency and quality of service for the students. As in years past, the discussion turned to tandems and which is more important training or turn-around times. To simplify the discussion for this forum it centered around two main ideas regarding students making a first tandem. 1. We should follow only the basic requirements for student training outlined by the USPA and the tandem manufacturers to speed our training process. The majority of tandem students are coming out for a joy-ride and have no intention of ever returning to continue their training. Extra training means extra time and time is money. 2. We should take the extra time to really train the student about skydiving (i.e. turns, good circles of awareness, prcp’s, etc.). Though the training takes a little longer, the student learns more about what they are about to do and with a little luck just might want to come back later and continue their training. This is a tuff call for many DZs especially come the peak of the season when you are trying to speed turn-around times to make as many loads as you can for the day. After some hard thought and some heated discussion it was agreed that training should be the priority. We are in the process of standardizing the tandem program to help streamline it while keeping the integrity of the overall training program. As a business, it is important that the drop zone maximizes its profit but as a skydiving school it is also important that it truly trains every student. In my very limited experience every DZ struggles with this, I was wondering how others have approached the training vs. profit question.

Where ever I've ever jumped one person gets to chase the Main, one the freebag, and if the jumper who cut away can't make it back a person lands with them. It's nice to know that everone is watching out for each other.

I'll second that, when you get outside of the canopies designed wing loading, up or down, you loose the advantages of its design. In the end it comes down to "what's the point of buying it then?" If its money, you can find great deals on canopies all the time as long as you’re willing to look. I'd tell her to wait till a canopy comes along that fits her needs better.

The lesson I always take away from incidents like Ivan’s and Paul’s is that if you are jumping camera maybe a non-elliptical canopy at a lower wing loading is your best option. If you are starting to do video for the first time or thinking about it take situations like these into consideration. Once you’re comfortable with the conservative canopy then progress onto the higher performance ellipticals. When I started jumping video I jumped a Triathlon. I could spin that canopy into line twists halfway up the lines and it would still fly level. Now I’ve progressed down to a Vengeance 135 loaded at 1.8. I love the performance this canopy gives me but I also understand the risks it can bring. I’ve been taken for a couple rides thanks to loose toggles and once for really uneven leg straps. I was able to get the canopy under control but was always slowed by either the helmet or wings. My experience allows me to quickly respond while remaining altitude aware. As they say in the Airborne “there is a fine line between HUAH and STUPID”. When you start strapping extra stuff to you for a jump you can quickly cross that line.

Man that's a tough call... I never had to eat the slot before. Been lucky and the DZO's I've worked for have always expected you to ride down with the student and therefore don't charge you.

Helmets are just like AADs, you should never trust the AAD to save your life it is a mechanical device and may fail. You are always responsible for your safety, but if things go really wrong it is always best to have the safety devices there to cover you. As for "bad things just don't happen" ask anyone who has been slammed by an invisible dirt devil if that's true. Skydiving is a fast paced sport sh** happens.

Of course I didn’t mean that literally, but that is the impression some students may get when you jump without them. It really shows the student you’re looking out for them and their training if you’re willing to hang with them no matter what. Like I said, I really hate riding the plane down but I know I get cool points with the student for doing it. Some things are just more important then logging another jump.

Always buckle up and ride the plane down with your student. I hate landing in the plane but its part of the job to stay with the student and keep them safe. Wouldn't be very professional to look at your student and say "Hey! Sucks to be you buddy, I'm outta here".

When you knock yourself out falling off the bike you just slide on the ground and everyone points and laughs while you twitch. When you knock yourself out in freefall you hope the AAD works and saves you, if not you… well you get the picture.

Odds are you will need one eventually, I’ve given and taken my fair share off feet to the head during RW jumps. I’ve also seen a few good knees to the back to the head from jumpers crashing through formations. Though I’d say 99% of the time I didn’t need a helmet I’m glad I had it on for that 1%. When you do start jumping on your own ask around and make sure the helmet you buy is right for the job. For instance the leather frap hat is only good for soaking up your blood after you bust your head open.

Yep! the only way you're going to subtract your main is by cutting it away. Then you can recalculate your wing loading on the reserve

I'll second that! I'm on my second Sony video camera for skydiving video work. I beat my first camera up pretty good inside of C-182's but it never quit working. In the end it took a hard opening yanking off my camera helmet sending it into a 3,000ft plunge to kill it. Sony makes a very good and durable product.

I think it has been well established in previous threads that anyone currently looking for a new canopy is tired of waiting on the Katana. Especially with great alternatives like the Samurai, Crossfire2, etc. already available for demo. I think what the thread is asking is if you HAVE jumped both the crossfire2 AND the katana how did the two compare? We already know the Katana is hard to come by and not all the sizes are available yet. We want to hear from the people who have jumped the Katana.

I agree, I’m not concerned with new rules or regulations. What I would like to see is guidelines set for training, currency, etc. set by the USPA or the tandem manufacturers regarding the hand-mount cameras use. I have never even considered studying what all of the other skydiving governing bodies have regulated. I have enough trouble keeping up with all of the changes with the USPA’s training program. By strapping on the camera a tandem master adds to their overall responsibilities on the jump, some would say they add a whole new distraction. It would be nice to think that instructors would use common sense regarding their ability to handle the added responsibility. Sometimes common sense is in short supply and some people need a little extra guidance.

In the US, neither USPA nor the Tandem Manufacturers have outlined any guidelines for the use of video equipment by tandem instructors. Anyone with a rating can strap on a camera without training or experience and make a jump. We all know there are many dynamics to tandem skydives which require the full attention of the tandem master to insure the safety of their student. Handle checks should be made every jump and stable body position should always be the priority on exit to insure clean drogue deployment. Can these requirements be safely met with a camera weighing down one of your hands? Will geeking the camera take priority over handle checks? I think these are some valid concerns with the use of the hand mount systems. I just hope proper training will be introduced in the US before the first incident or fatality involving a tandem with hand-mount video. I do agree that with proper training and experience that the system can be used safely. It gives students video at dropzones where it might not otherwise be offered. I can also see the benefit of maximizing the profits of a dropzone by cutting out the extra videographer. However, I have always aired on the side of caution when it comes to students. They entrust their safety with me as their Tandem Instructor and I take that very seriously. I can foresee to many cases where a camera mounted on my hand could cause difficulties in an emergency situation to make it worth the added risk. It’s a great product and I would love to have one for my personal use. As for tandems… I’ll pass.

Funky, I'm going to have to find someone with a Spectre and try stalling it. I jump a 7 cell Triathlon and it folds up just like a 9cell.

To stall a canopy you simply go into a deep flare until the canopy no longer has sufficient forward speed to stay fully inflated. With a non-tapered wing at a low to moderate wing loading the canopy will begin to shudder and the tail fold back until the right and left sides touch. The canopy flies much like a round at this point and you sink quickly. To recover from a stall, and this is important, you simply SLOWLY release the brakes and return to full flight. Quickly releasing the brakes causes the canopy to surge forward and it can pass under you causing you to fall into the lines and possibly into the canopy itself. As with all new canopy techniques they should be tried at high altitudes. At higher wing loadings or with canopies that have elliptical wings stalling a canopy can cause it to quickly spin up into line twists which may be unrecoverable. Is it a good idea to try? With the right canopy I think so. Learning how a canopy feels and acts before and during a stall only increases your knowledge of canopy flight. And the more you know the less likely you are to crash in. As always, ask an instructor at your DZ for advice before attempting your first stall. They will let you know if your ready to try it and if you have the right equipment. Blue Skies

Link to a hand-cam website... http://members.westnet.com.au/onlineair/html/products/hand-cam.htm