robinheid

You frighten easily, methinks... what if what if what if... ? Spoken like a true Whuffo. You know, what's most comical about all the whining is that the best way to get out of any spin is to go into a delta position -- you know, the same position in which a wingsuit configures the body. And really, wingsuit tandem is going to be by definition and equipment imperatives a fairly limited-market-segment offering. Bowling balls and beanpoles need not apply because what school is going to have suits that fit shapes outside the bell curve? It is truly amazing to see people with profiles claimiing thousands of jumps going on and on like sanctimonious whuffos risk avoiders. Jeez, grow a pair, would y'all? Yer emBARrassing me. bump to get back to the original thread subject -- and a revisitiation of the comment that caused such a kerfuffle: "You know, what's most comical about all the whining is that the best way to get out of any spin is to go into a delta position -- you know, the same position in which a wingsuit configures the body." Little did I know the magnitude of the kerfuffle this would spark coming from people who are apparently unfamiliar with precisely what a "delta" position is -- an arched, belly-to-earth/relative wind body position with arms straight and swept back, and legs also straight a little more than shoulder-width apart. The delta is, in fact, and throughout freefall parachuting history, the primary means by which someone in a flat spin, or experiencing any loss of heading control, could regain control. I said this as a general statement, not a wingsuit-specific statement, and I am more than willing to be corrected if for some magical reason the laws of physics suddenly do not apply to "modern" wingsuits -- a term which I was remiss in forgetting to have DWE define for me as he understands the term. What I find most intriguing about the ensuing kerfuffle, however, was that none of us involved, including me, bothered to notice the most fundamental missing element which renders DWE's wingsuit god pronouncement utterly moot: No one to my knowledge has yet done a single induced or accidental flat spin WITH a wingsuited tandem passenger attached, so literally no one knows whether my premise is solid or flawed because the momentum dynamics of such a configuration are totally unknown. Ergo, the moderator who was so quick to denounce me as clueless actually has no idea what he's talking about, his wingsuit god pronouncements notwithstanding. Moreover, he has no apparent inclination to learn, either, as he tripped all over his tail feathers backpedaling away from his "offer" to let me ride his back while he created an induced spin -- a wingsuit configuration jump he confessed to having never tried, but which is a least slightly more like a wingsuit tandem jump (you know, the subject of this thread) than any challenge to me to use a complete set of borrowed gear and a borrowed wingsuit of his choice so that he might prove me wrong about something which is only peripherally related to the subject at hand: whether tandem wingsuiting is a good idea or not. And I think it may be: As I said way back when, "wingsuit tandem is going to be by definition and equipment imperatives a fairly limited-market-segment offering." both in terms of the limited number of tandem pilots who can do them, and the limited number of customers who can participate. But lots of subsets of sport parachuting fall within that description, and you never know if the next bright idea will in fact be a bright idea or a non-starter. As I also mentioned previously, students jumping squares was a heretical idea that was denounced in exactly the same terms and with the same sanctimoniousness seen by the naysayers on this thread. And they may be right, but we won't know until someone investigates it further. Finally, I also want to revisit what Dave Lepka said about this subject, because I think it's the most cogent, succinct and to-the-point post on this entire thread: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wrote: a) The "modern wingsuit" position is in FACT a DELTA position... you know, legs spread approx. shoulder-width apart, arms straight and swept back at 30-45 degrees from your body, and b) The best way to get out of any flat spin situation, wearing a wingsuit or not, is to assume a delta position -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave replied: Let's say that the above are correct, the problem is that the delta is not the only position a passenger can assume in a wingsuit, it's just one of them. Consider the myriad of other positions a passenger could assume, the fact that the suit will probably increase the student's authority over stability, and the subtraction of the stability the drouge provides, and you can see that there are too many 'what if's' to introduce tandem wingsuiting to the general public. There may be solutions to the problems a wingsuit could introduce, and those solutions may be good enough to allow the general public to participate, but until those solutions are formulated and tested, you can't let the gen. pop. get involved in wingsuit jumps of any kind. END LEPKA POST This also ends my participation in this thread, at least until DWE and I do our little spinfest sometime in the reasonably near future. Thanks to everyone for the conversation, the jousting, and the information. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

That just means more orders for Abbie and Tree. LOL Wingsuit tandems are a great idea as long at the TI is experienced on wingsuits. They will force a re-think of tandem jumping because the drogue system on tandems in inherently dangerous because it makes the whole malfunction event and decision tree so much more complex. Most peeps forget that Booth's original tandem rigs didn't have drogues... if I recall correctly, it was Ted Strong who introduced the drogue to slow down the deployment speed because HIS parachutes were blowing up. Then someone figured out that you could film a drogue-fall tandem and thus was born a cool carnival ride. After a spate of tandem fatalities involving very experienced tandem masters a decade or so ago, I did a study and found no correlation between TI experience and fatality rate -- ergo, it doesn't matter how good you are, the complexity of the system can still overwhelm you. But when I suggested to one tandem manufacturer that getting rid of the drogue was the answer -- especially given that freeflying allowed drogue-less tandem photography, he laughed and said: "If I got rid of the drogue, half my tandem masters couldn't get stable." So we persist in keeping the drogue around despite its obvious and documented dangers because there aren't enough TIs capable enough to do tandems without one -- and then talk smack about a system that not only eliminates the greatest cause of tandem fatalities -- drogue-related screwups -- it gives the TI greater control over his customer. I mean D'OH! when the customer has on a wingsuit it literally straitjackets them into a reasonably aerodynamic and symmetrical body position -- and especially reduces their ability to disrupt the TI with their arms. And D'OH! a wingsuit also eliminates the chance that the customer will fall out of an improperly adjusted tandem harness. Yes, wingsuit tandem requires a higher-order skillset on the part of the TI, who must now include wingsuit proficiency along with general freefall and canopy handling proficiency, but those who have the requisite skillset will in fact be able to provide their customers with a demonstably safer and aesthetically better experience. So get used to it -- and quit WHINING. bump to get back to the original thread subject SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

so you've withdrawn THIS offer? "Tell ya what...you can ride my back like a pony, that'll be close to the unicorns Labrys wants. Try to hang on during a flat spin. Would be a new experience for me, too. Never done an intentional with someone on my back before. Might be kinda fun in a butterfly/pony way." That was never an "offer," Robin. Twas a joke that many folks in the wingsuit community understood. S'ok. I understand why you won't/can't get down on the offer I made. No shame in being afraid of a flatspin. Most intelligent people are. Quote Yes, DWE, it WAS an offer, in exactly the way the first one was: you proposed it in writing on this thread -- and now you're not only withdrawing it (too rich for your blood, I guess), you're tripping over your tail feathers trying to pretend you didn't make it. (Gee, what a surprise). As for your original offer that also may or may not be an "offer:" I accept -- even though many folks in the wingsuit community understand THAT offer to be the real joke because of your reckless disregard for my lack of currency in your pursuit of proving me wrong (I mean, excuse me for bringing up an inconvenient truth, but wasn't this whole thread about a wingsuit god who recklessly endangered someone who was essentially clueless in order to show everyone how cool he was?). But while you approach this recklessly, I don't, which is why I'm still jumping after 38 years, and why you won't be. So you'll have to wait while I get wingsuit-current again before I come over and we sort out what's what. I'm sure it'll be good video if you can keep up with me. So, thanks for your generous offer. It'll be fun. Thanks even more for the nudge -- just the motivation I needed to start spending more time in the sky again. See you soon -- unless, of course, by accepting this offer, it magically becomes a joke too. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

You should care; the moment some dumbfuck hurts a whuffo, it'll likely have a big impact on wingsuits (who are already on FAA radar). That said, you're right, Ed...flatspins are incredibly easy to start and not easy to stop, even if you're experienced. Does the irony of Robin's last posts stymie anyone else? Robin demands 10 jumps to figure out what is required for a TI and whuffo to figure out in one jump. Yo DWE, maybe you should borrow Ron's remedial reading books if he ever finishes them. I demanded nothing; I accepted both of your invitations: one, exactly as you made it; the other, with a counter-offer that expanded one component of said invitation. I'll be in Elsinore next week. Are we on for one or both of your invitations -- or not? You're on for one jump on my dime in a suit of my choosing, with an induced spin, exactly as originally offered and thus declined on your part. Can't WAIT to see you use a "delta" to get out of a spin so you've withdrawn THIS offer? "Tell ya what...you can ride my back like a pony, that'll be close to the unicorns Labrys wants. Try to hang on during a flat spin. Would be a new experience for me, too. Never done an intentional with someone on my back before. Might be kinda fun in a butterfly/pony way." SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

You should care; the moment some dumbfuck hurts a whuffo, it'll likely have a big impact on wingsuits (who are already on FAA radar). That said, you're right, Ed...flatspins are incredibly easy to start and not easy to stop, even if you're experienced. Does the irony of Robin's last posts stymie anyone else? Robin demands 10 jumps to figure out what is required for a TI and whuffo to figure out in one jump. Yo DWE, maybe you should borrow Ron's remedial reading books if he ever finishes them. I demanded nothing; I accepted both of your invitations: one, exactly as you made it; the other, with a counter-offer that expanded one component of said invitation. I'll be in Elsinore next week. Are we on for one or both of your invitations -- or not? SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

This sounds like a good idea, but what's up, you don't pay for jump tickets? Quote Thanks, and what's UP is not whether I pay for jump tickets or not but the simple fact that DWE offered to pay for my ticket (plus provide all necessary gear, suits and video coverage) as part of his challenge to me that I show him how to use a delta to get out of a flat spin. I made a counter-offer (outlined above) that remains on the table. Hopefully, it will be accepted and then we'll strap on the rigs and suits and cameras and see if we can contribute to the body of wingsuit spin recovery knowledge without contributing to the wingsuit body count. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

The pattern I see is your inability or refusal to actually understand what I write and instead to persist in your personal opinion based on nothing I have written in this thread in order to hurl junior-high-school-caliber taunts at my masculinity. Well, whatever makes your ducky quack, kid, but to reiterate for the record: 1) tandem wingsuiting is something that needs to be explored carefully rather than whined, sniveled and railed about as if it's the second coming of Satan; 2) the delta position is an important tool in any spin recovery toolbox, with or without a wingsuit; and 3) I accepted DWE's "ride-my-back-while-I-do-a-flat-spin-and-see-if-you-can-stay-on" offer on its face and, after declining his original offer to film me doing a flat spin recovery, I made a counter-offer thereto which is currently on the table. Anyway, I'm done talking with you until you learn how to read better or at least stop reading your own opinions into what I write -- and good luck with the remedial reading courses. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Better be careful... you don't want to piss off all the whuffos by stealing their words, attitude and outlook like that -- not to mention all the doctors who say the same supercilious thing to peeps who don't wear helmets when they ride a scoot. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

+1 SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

There you go again. Try this and then let's continue our discussion. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Cutting away wings is for pussies and bowlers. It is. Its also not part of any response to freefall emergencies. Ever. Though you may disagree on a lot of things, I would suggest brushing up on wingsuit knowledge a bit if you ever go back into the sky with one. PM-ed you some more info... Glad we agree on cutting away wings and glad to see that's not part of the protocol anymore. Thanks also for your PM... I checked out your video and it's very well done (see it here). However, it raised two questions: 1) Nothing in your video shows what sparked this sub-section of the thread -- a flat spin. I saw a variety of spins along various axes, but none qualified as what I would define as a flat spin --- face or back to earth (or relative wind), spinning around the vertical axis only. No example you show in your video is a pure flat spin. 2) Every recovery you show in your video does in fact show more or less the same thing I said is the way to regain control: Recognize it, ball up to get out of the spin-inducing position, re-establish your position, re-establish control. Perhaps it's that"arching" part that is at issue here, but see, for an old fart like me, the delta position IS an arching position, just with arms swept back and legs extended straighter than in a box position -- you know, the EXACT position a wingsuit ("modern" or otherwise) forces you to assume by the nature of its design. So, really, I'm not sure what all the hoohah is about... maybe you and DWE just don't know what a delta position actually is because what you show in your video is exactly what I would DO to get out of various spins -- I guess I just DESCRIBE it differently. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Hey Baksteen, I completely reject your premise and conclusion, BUT I concur that it's lame to to bag on someone's English when they're a non-native speaker. SO, apologies to you on that score mccordia, although I must add that it wasn't deliberate -- you write English so well I thought you WERE a native speaker thereof -- I didn't notice where you were from until Baksteen came to your defense. Had I known that, I would have phrased my response a little differently, but I stand by its content: You manufactured a quote by me -- that was clearly a quote made by someone else and referred to by me -- in order to bag on me, and in the future you need to have your ducks in a row a little better if you're goin g to try that. BTW, I too wonder what exactly DWE means by the term "modern wingsuit," which -- to me at least -- means anything post-Gayardon/Birdman design, as it was the ram-air-inflated-with-no-hard-stiffeners designs of the mid-1990s that transformed the whole wingsuit thing from an almost-as-black-death-as-climbing-K2 thing to a routine recreational activity. Suits today have evolved from those mid-1990s designs, but unless I'm missing something here, the template on which they are built is fundamentally the same. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

So you only will talk a good game and not "sack up" and prove you are as good as you claim? Thanks for your kind words about my "game," but you better get out that remedial reading comprehension book, ol' buddy. or back off on your meds: I never in this thread claimed that I was "good" at anything -- only that the delta position (the DEFAULT position when wearing a wingsuit) is the basic flat-spin recovery position. Your testosterone taunt is sorta silly too -- definitely anti-safety. As I recall, don't we always preach to noobs and old farts alike that trying to "prove" something to anyone is a great way to hurt or kill yourself or others? Beyond that, I gotta circle back to your reading comprehension: I said to "grow a pair" to the peeps whining about how inordinately, catastrophically, earthshakingly dangerous it was to do tandem wingsuiting -- and I don't recall that DWE included a tandem wingsuiting component anywhere in his generous offer to me -- although that may indeed be a fun additional component to that offer, which I have conditiionally accepted. Try again, cupcake. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Fail. Then why don't you, in your apparently all-knowing wisdom, educate us here instead of using the playground tactic of "nyah-nyah-nyah, I know something that you don't know!"...? I'm sure many people following this thread would like to know. You know what, DWE, I'll take you up on the latter offer for sure. It would certainly be fun, and who knows, I might actually like you in person. As for your original offer, after pondering it for a while, I'm open to that as well, but with one condition: Ten jumps, not one. The reason: I haven't jumped a wingsuit for a long time, so I need to take it slow, not jump right into showing you how it's done -- or learning from YOU how it should be done. Video it all, including the ground school, including everything, so we can both show everyone how it indeed should be done. Edit it together into a nice little package and you'll have a nice learning tool for know-it-all noobs and know-it-all old farts alike (and maybe everyone else too). One caveat though: You may be disappointed in the outcome. I'm a very good listener and a very abrupt point conceder, so don't get your hopes up that I'll stick to my guns no matter how "wrong" you may prove me to be. If you do, I'll acknowledge it and change. I actually wrote in SKYDIVING years ago about a circumstance very similar to this tht involved swooping: I was practicing for a swoop meet on my lightly loaded, fast-recovery arc Stiletto and after one pretty-low-by-necessity approach turn, Luigi Cani told me I'd kill myself if I kept doing what I was doing. I started to "explain" to him what I was doing and he cut me off and said: "If you won't want to listen to what I have to say, then I'm not going to talk to you any more" -- and walked away. I pondered that for a while, watched some of the better swoopers do their thing for a while -- and then withdrew from the comp and spent the event watching and learning instead. Got a lot of compliments for that story too -- for it being a roadmap on how to park your ego and learn instead of defending your position to the death (or serious injury). Anyway, if you can expand your offer to 10 tickets instead of 1, you are ON and thanks for the offer... I think it will indeed be fun and maybe even create something valuable for others. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

$$$$ SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Drug testing is technically illegitimate, statistically irrelevant, constitutionally dangerous, and Exhibit A for the affirmative that if you tell a big enough lie long enough, people will actually believe it. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Drug testing is a means by which government forces universal compliance with what in essence is a state religion -- the random prohibition of certain plants and their byproducts to achieve political and religious ends. Thus any individual or business that supports and/or uses drug testing aids and abets the continuing attack on and destruction of the U.S. Constitution. As a great American statesman once said, he who would trade essential liberty for (alleged) temporary safety deserves neither, and it is psychotic to support the "right" of government to root through our body wastes in order to assure compliance with its dogma because said support simply hastens that day when there will indeed be neither liberty nor safety -- for anyone. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

I may be a funny guy, but looks ain't everything, y'know? Seriously, name-calling is the best you can do here? I've got the suits. I've got the rigs (just in case you don't have a non-elliptical) it's got an AAD, got video, and I've got the jump ticket for you. I have EVERYTHING you could possibly need. COME SHOW US HOW IT'S DONE. I'd bet everyone would appreciate and learn from video of you getting out of a real honest to god flatspin with the method you describe in a modern suit. I'd be learning something from an older, more experienced guy like you, and appreciate the opportunity. Here's your chance to show everyone your great expertise in wingsuiting on my dime. Seriously? You're the guy who calls me clueless and tells me "(I) don't know Jack" -- and then you say I'M the one "name-calling" when I reflect your words back at you? Y'all funnier than I thought... Anyway, thanks for your generous but incorrectly characterized offer to jump with you "on (your) dime." You see, you do NOT "have EVERYTHING (I) could possibly need" to wingsuit with you because these days my only need is to have fun jumping with people I like and your offer doesn't meet those criteria so I'll pass. Do give it a shot yourself, though. Who knows, you might learn something. Catch you next week with the rest of the kids. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Cutting away wings is for pussies and bowlers. Dude, please brush up on your grammar and punctuation and maybe also read the thread, will ya? It was that august personage the great DSE himself who used the term "modern wingsuit," which is why, you know, I put those two words IN QUOTES -- and notice also how you morphed what I very precisely wrote into your own version so you could lay a foundation for your snide remark? OOOooops. p.s. catch you kids again next week. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Let's say that the above are correct, the problem is that the delta is not the only position a passenger can assume in a wingsuit, it's just one of them. Consider the myriad of other positions a passenger could assume, the fact that the suit will probably increase the student's authority over stability, and the subtraction of the stability the drouge provides, and you can see that there are too many 'what if's' to introduce tandem wingsuiting to the general public. There may be solutions to the problems a wingsuit could introduce, and those solutions may be good enough to allow the general public to participate, but until those solutions are formulated and tested, you can't let the gen. pop. get involved in wingsuit jumps of any kind. +1 SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Stick to what you know, Robin. You should be embarrassed on this one, you don't know Jack. Intentional flatspins are part of the safety-knowledge-growth process. Kinda like jumping a wingsuit into water. One guy thought he knew the answer to that one, too. Untested theories are dangerous things, such as your theory of getting out of a flat spin in a wingsuit. LOL You are SUCH a funny guy, Douggie.. a theory is an untested hypothesis so I do indeed stick to what I actually know, which is: a) The "modern wingsuit" position is in FACT a DELTA position... you know, legs spread approx. shoulder-width apart, arms straight and swept back at 30-45 degrees from your body, and b) The best way to get out of any flat spin situation, wearing a wingsuit or not, is to assume a delta position. Now, pardon me for not including the INTERMEDIATE STABILITY RECOVERY STEPS that (silly me) I assumed YOU knew through your vast experience as a freefall and wingsuit skydiving instructor: 1. Recognize unrecoverable flat spin. 2. Ball up.* 3. Reset body position into a delta. 4. Re-establish directional control. 5. Resume original position (you know, an arch in normal freefall, a more rigid delta in wingsuit freefall). So you see, I actually DO know Jack, whereas you are apparently better acquainted with his dumber twin, Jack S***... * Not to be confused with Sack Up, which I addressed previously in this thread. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

Buy mini-risers. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

How many spin experiences do you have in a modern wingsuit? You haven't got a friggin' clue. Of course I don't... I actually know how to FLY a wingsuit, not flail around in a spin multiple times. But thanks for enlightening me on the root cause of your resistance to the concept of wingsuit tandem. If I had the "many spin experiences in a modern wingsuit" that you apparently have, it would be a, well, frightening thought. P.S. I'll be back next week to catch up on all the fun. In the meantime, check out this! LOL SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

LOL Now you're channeling what USPA said to Roger Nelson when the BOD tried to force him to stop putting students on SQUARE PARACHUTES: "...it would be a difficult argument to suggest that square parachutes for students is a training tool when industry practices demand 100 jumps before jumping a square." I mean, can you IMAGINE putting STUDENTS on SQUARES when they have NO IDEA OF THE RISK INVOLVED? What kind of reckless, stupid egomaniac would put students in DANGER like that? OMG, SUE that bastard for everything he's worth!!! LMFAO at you pedantic, pontificating rubes. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

for the record it was ted strong that did the first tandem BASE jump And for the record, he did it with me. Bridge Day 1984. SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."