pirana

That is just it though. On our side of the tracks these things are very rare for a reason, not because we just made up our minds to not kill people very often; but because we don't engage in the behaviors that lead to killing. We do not have a 60% high school drop out rate for males, we do not have pimps and whores on our street corners, we do not have 50% of the female population pregnant (without being married) by the time they are 16. We do not have the murderous crime rate that goes with those things. If we had and accepted all those things, we'd also have and accept the murder that goes with them. I think to have any hope of reversing the trend, or changing the behavior; you need to dig into some very fundamental beliefs about what people value and why. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I think finding a place these days where it is reasonable to hunt in Cook County would be almost as difficult as finding such a place in NYC. There are probably a few farms left, but they would be the small urban hobby farm variety, with subdivisions across the street. Reminds me of a couple of places where I grew up. We lived on a farm in Tinley Park IL; I believe it was on Central Ave. The subdivisions started moving in around the early 60's. We were like an island for a couple years, then moved farther out - to Monee. It was just a matter of time (about 20 years) before our 160 acre quarterhorse operation there succombed to the same fate. We may have a joint solution here. Make Chicago proper a free-fire zone. The resultant population losses should ease the pressure to expand, thus preserving northern Illinois last cornfield beyond the year 2012 (and therefore forestalling then end of the world). " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

How do you get banned from Bonfire? Isn't that like getting kicked out of Girl Scouts. Like being the Bad Boy of Mr. Rogers neighborhood? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I dig Christmas. I'm indifferent to most behaviors of practicing Christians. I only react strongly to fundamentalist literal interpretations of the Bible being foisted upon rational society. If they ever try to introduce that crap at my kids school I am going to perform my own personal shit-in. I will eat nothing but Taco Bell for a month, then chain myself to a heavy object in the Superintendent's office and stay there pooping my brains out until they reverse their decision. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

A country is SE Asia. Next question. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I'm curious in a general sense on what would satisfy responsible gun owners. (And replying to POPS post only because this site still does not have a quick reply option).* Would everybody agree that it is still too easy for criminals to get guns, and that too many criminals have guns? If yes, then we obviously still need to do more to prevent/reduce that. Does the NRA, or other lobbying organizations that claim to be representing responsible gun owners, have suggested remedies? As with other social problems/issues, why not look to experts to lead the way towards enacting measures that would at least improve, and possibly resolve the situation? If the NRA and other such groups simply reject all measures that restrict guns, then shame on them - they would in that case deserve the extremist and draconian measures that will inevitably be passed if the carnage continues. I do not think that is their position however, as it would paint them into a corner politically. Basically, the NRA and other pro-gun lobbyists had better work with the government to come up with something that works to reduce gun violence before the anti-gun lobby succeeds in getting the government to do things their way. It appears the writing is on the wall, and it will happen eventually. Am I completely off-base here and is it just a matter of enforcement? Or is there more that could be done to prevent criminal ownership of guns without being a burden on responsible owners? *NOTE TO SITE OWNER/MANAGER: Get with the times and install a quick reply option. A button centered immediately under the last post in every thread. If there is too much going on with the page, then get rid of the PREVIEW POST and CHECK SPELLING buttons. They do not seem to get much use anyway. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I'd suggest you drop a really big one on your toe to find out. Otherwise this post is the perfect opening for the warning to "Put the elephant bong down." I'm guessing that you have either never read Plato's Allegory of the Cave, or it has been a LONG time since you read it. Otherwise, you would see the irony of your post! Yes, and I am familiar with all kinds of tricks and stories to demonstrate how our perceptions can be deceiving. I agree it is good to be cautious, but to be paralyzed to the point of denying the obvious is just silly. We could take the idea to an extreme and end up with a tautology about knowing nothing and being unable to prove anything. Nice thought experiment, and utterly useless. A better experiment still would be for someone to drop a big rock on your foot - somehow totally unbeknownst to you. I'll bet you still scream quite loudly. That should settle the rock-is-solid issue. What else you got? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

What is obvious to who? So if you compare the masculine/feminine duality of religion with the wave/particle duality of light, you get what? Maybe the recognition that you've identified 2 dualities that have absolutely nothing to do with each other? Or are you trying to say the theorists that first elucidated the wave/particle duality were basing it on the feminine/masculine duality. It's like comparing Wil E. Coyote to Jeb Bush. What is the point? Let's say the answer is Jeb Bush. Huh? In other words, what about them are you comparing? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I'd suggest you drop a really big one on your toe to find out. Otherwise this post is the perfect opening for the warning to "Put the elephant bong down." " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Official. OK, I'll buy that. BTW, not being condescending. Just think it is good to share, and guessing that not everyone knows. Didn't Constantine "convert" merely as part of his power stuggle with the Maxentians and Maximinus? I don't think there's any evidence that he was actually a believer in anything except his own political interests. The stuff I've read indicates he might have been posturing initially, but that he did become a true believer at some later point. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I like that (and do consider myself closer to libertarian than anything). My experience is that most people do not fit in either box as defined by current political ideology. Not only that, but the definitions are constantly under revision to make them a good fit for people's agendas. They have almost done a complete switch since the early days of the founding of both parties. Liberty IS where it's at. All the other shit is political posturing; nurturing asswipes who think everybody should want to live just like them. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To know requires proof To believe requires evidence To have faith requires neither. If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again I like the variant on this where the last line goes something like: For good people to really fuck up requires religion. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Official. OK, I'll buy that. BTW, not being condescending. Just think it is good to share, and guessing that not everyone knows. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

And she CAN'T freaking FLY and she is NOT a strong as Superman But she has a better body. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

One of my daughter's friends has a similar rule in their family. They are highly religious and not allowed to watch anything that involves supernatural forces of any kind. Hello?! " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

You got that right. My mom was seriously, but superficially injured. She landed on her face in gravel. The side of her face looked horrific, but eventually did heal. I've been trampled and thrown a few times; but I was much younger and bouncier. My scariest moment came when I was riding bareback, no equipment at all. I'd go out in the pasture and hop on one of our better trained and more well behaved beasts. I did this a few times, no problem. Just grab a handful of mane, get right up behind the withers, hunker down and squeeze hard with your legs. The best trained ones, the ones trained to neck rein with the slightest input, would turn nicely just from the weight of your hand on one side of the neck or the other. So I'm doing this one day and out of nowhere the horse decides to bolt for home (the stable). Being on a big strong high performing horse at a full gallop with no means of forcing them to slow down was very exciting, and very scary. I never did it again. After that I always rode with at least a rope thru the bottom ring of the halter. BTW, I noticed early on that the experienced competitors at the horse shows we attended often walked behind their horses, contradicting the gospel preached to us as kids. But they walked right behind them, very close. That way they got pushed instead of kicked. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Specify what you mean by predominant. It was certainly not practiced by the majority. It went thru periods of being tolerate and persecuted, and the persecutions were not over by 312. Even as late as 400, the Empire was made up of some pretty significant chunks of assimilated barbarian hordes, with most of them still pagan. Also, Hellenistic beliefs were still far from being Christianized/eradicated. Not to mention the Jewish communities, which were tolerated even more so and earlier than the Christians. Not only that, but to group them together at that early date is even a bit of a misnomer. The various forms of Christianity were not just splintered, they actually persecuted each other at times. It is only via disintegration of the Roman Empire and the vacumm created that Catholicism became such a powerful force in the shaping of modern Europe. Had the Empire focused more on the northern hordes instead of fixating on the Persians and lands beyond the eastern Mediteranean Basin, the power of the Church would never have acheived the dominance it did. I don't think that Christianity could be called anything like a predominant faith until much closer to the middle of the 1st millenium. Sorry, strayed a bit. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Chomsky, one of the great thinkers of our times, though a bit of a verbose speaker. Always entertaining, often enlightening. I think I might have first seen it here, but one of my favorites related to democracy versus liberty: Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding to have mutton for dinner. Liberty is the sheep showing up for dinner armed to the teeth. Democracy is worthless without liberty. Even the inventors of the concept knew that nearly 3K years ago. Liberty is the only thing that keeps democracy from turning into group tyranny. Which is related only as a thin tangent to the issue of what each autonomous political unit decides is legal or not. That thin tangent is your opportunity at election time to throw out the bums who refuse you the liberty to light up a joint in private. Vote them out. All of them. If the next group doesn't change things, vote them all out again. I think this has great potential for grass roots politics. How many cycles of voting every single politician out of office do you think it would take before they would get the message? And if you can not get enough votes to do so, then maybe the coalition isn't as big as you think. You are then free to take the habit underground, openly revolt against your government, or move to where you are not persecuted. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Horses are quite skittish in general about most things; it is their nature. Just being ridden, without guns blazing, takes a good amount of training. Even well-trained horses often retain certain skittishes. We had a Western Saddle champ (a good number of ribbons) that never did get used to water. Trail riding was a challenge; steeplechase was right out. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

A victim of what ? Hey Joedirt, ....a victim of WHAT???? They make it up as they go. Everything is somebody else's fault. All their bad circumstances are because somebody screwed them over. There are 10 pages of want ads and they can not find a job. They spend half their paycheck on drugs and alcohol but are about to get their electricity turned off. They get shitty grades but know every episode of every worthless TV show like the back of their hand. Have you never met people like that? It appears many on this board are just talking right past each other on this topic. One person says they shouldn't pay for the spinners and sub-woofer for some lazy fuck without a job. The response asks if they don't think people with Down's and CP deserve help. HUH? Continuity folks, continuity. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Easy. You should not. You are not helping anything. Some people need to be allowed to fail. When you give her money, her situation may change slightly for a couple days or few weeks; but she'll be knocking on the door again soon; and you are out your money. If you say no, everything is essentially still the same; except you still have your money. I have siblings in debt to me to the tune of a couple grand. I now realize I will probably never see that money. I finally started saying NO. I put it to the last requestor that I did not have it (which I did not at the time), but that I could help them out by no longer putting money in the kids college savings and/or my retirement plan. Then, when my kids have to go to Podunk Vocational Institute instead of a real school I'll just explain that the money went to some family that can't manage their behaviors. And no it didn't really help. Oh well. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I think the first best course of action is for people to not be so complacent when they see aberrant behavior in others. Someone that threatens death on you AND your family AND threatens to burn your house to the ground AND is actually sad about losing their job at NcD's is not healthy. Report them, at once. This is such a common theme in random shootings, and also in targeted shootings, that it surprises me that people aren't more wary already of obviously unstable people; especially when they say they are going to burn down your house because they think you stole a CD player. Shame on the stepfather who left the weapon available too. Your son is a psychotic mess and you leave an assault rifle laying around. What a fucking putz. And what is the point of having guards without guns. Here, take this uniform and flashlight and go stop crime. Idiots. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

If I send you all my money how am I supposed to pay the shipping costs? Will you still reimburse double the shipping costs? If so, should I send you all of that money? ... OK, lemme think this thru. I got it. First, send me all your gear. Include a note with how much money you have and how much it weighs. Round to the nearest dollar and pound. Then, I send you back double the shipping costs on the gear, along with a prepaid envelope for your money. Put all your money in the prepaid envelope and send it to me. Take the shipping costs I reimbursed and buy an 8th grade science book. Any of the natural sciences should be enlightening. Whew! That was tough. Kinda reminded me of one of those riddles where you have to get a sheep, a wolf, and a bale of hay across a river; using a boat that can only haul you and one of them at a time. It always surprised me how many people didn't know you could make it in one trip by just making the sheep swim. They'll just follow ya know. Blue skies and great weekends to all. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

For all those that predict then end of the world, end of civilization, end of planet and other such disasters you feel humanity might not survive, I ask you to do this: Please send me all your skydiving gear just prior to the time you predict your particular version of Armagedon. If you truly believe such nonsense, you are probably convinced you will not be needing it. I'll gladly reimburse double the shipping costs once goods are received. This ought to really test your faith in your predictions. Oh, and what the heck, send all your money too. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I pretty much agree with piranas post on this one, nothing more to say other than I thought there was pizza here Except for the death penalty part, right? Not that I'm looking to debate it, just that I was surprised because I thought you were against it. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley