jfields

Yes, unprovable to me. Your argument is circular. You say that God does not have to prove himself to me. But without such evidence of God's existence, I do not believe that God exists. So we are back where we were before, with the definition of faith being belief in something which is unprovable (or not proven). While not belittling your faith, I don't have faith in a God. Since there is nothing that tells me God exists in the first place, I have no reason to have faith. If there were proof of God, nobody would need faith, since the existence would be irrefutably established for all.

Heh! Three rebuttals in under two minutes. I'm impressed.

No, it isn't. It is not stating that faith and proven existence are mutually exclusive. It is saying that faith is what enables belief in something that cannot be proven to exist. Big difference.

Main Entry: 1faith Pronunciation: 'fAth Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/ Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE Date: 13th century 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions 2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust I don't believe in God, so I don't have any faith in God, but here is your answer, according to Merriam-Webster.

Actually, I don't find it lonely at all. It actually comforts me. I am the primary being in charge of my destiny. My life is based on my choices, the choices of others, and a whole lot of randomness. I control what of it I can (my actions), and don't worry about the rest. I'm not worried about whether a supreme being happens to like me or not, or whether I happen to be of the same denomination of that being, or whether I'm praying hard enough or not. I do not need another person to interpret the alleged actions or directives of an intangible being for me. There are so many conflicting religions, and so much harm done in the name of religion, that I can't believe that any of them are "right" in an absolute sense. Certainly, they can't all be. Yet they all feel equally adamant in their correctness and faith. I do not need an artificially-contrived diety to be at peace. I'm comfortable with both myself and my place in the world. I do good for its own sake. I find this to be completely satisfying and intellectually consistent with my beliefs.

I'm sorry to hear that. My sympathies. I agree. If there were in fact an all-powerful being, then the only logical deduction is that he/she/it doesn't give a crap, because there is so much "undeserved" suffering in the world. Maybe I find that thought more revolting than believing that the suffering goes on because there is no God.

Can we just agree that we disagree on that and skip the argument?

I was sarcastically imitating. My bad.

Yes, it is. I'd rather understand the truth and miss out on God, "although I KNOW God doesn't exist" than live a life of fiction. To each his own.

Dave isn't obsessed with Freebirds. He is just experimenting with their burritos as an alternative fuel source for when he lights his farts on fire and tries to get to altitude without a jump plane. Clear?

And... [little window]Dr. Darkside has found a stop error in Deathdows. Life support systems have been terminated. Deathdows needs to be restarted. EvilEmpire.com strongly recommends you back up life support systems and run the ScanSatellite program upon restart of Deathdows.[/little window]

An oxymoron?

Do you have to worry about leave time from a job or not? If so, just hit the convention for a few days. If not, convention for a few days, plus some road tripping.

How long does it take for the Death Star to reboot after a crash?

Just to be the voice of dissent, nope, I haven't thanked God lately. I don't think God exists. [wears fireproof suit]

Just when I thought you didn't care any more, you take the time to get in a friendly jab. Remster, I'm touched.

While you all are reviewing websites, how about this one: http://www.negentropicman.com I'm about to open it up for public use. As for colors, I kinda ended up like Halloween.

Like the design. The color on the other hand.....

Does the man have anything else on his person, other than the rope around his neck?

You also have to prove they knew it wasn't true and show a malicious intent. Libel is hard to make stick. If people have trouble pinning charges to the National Enquirer, think of how hard it is to do against a newspaper that generally attempts to report the news correctly.

Porn, Relaxation, Nakedness and Drinking?

I wasn't saying you personally, Dave, but you have to acknowledge that it has been discussed in the forum before, with a mocking tone. I also agree with Quade on the issue of the accuracy of the article and our responsibility to help the situation rather than just point fingers at the media. If you pretend to be a whuffo for a minute and look at it, there are lots of things that don't appear to make any sense. That applies to this situation in particular, or our sport as a whole. If I gave you a pen and paper, 30 minutes and an assignment to cover the death of a famous physicist, do you think you could do their life, their work, or their fellow physicists an educated and unbiased accounting reflective of their accomplishments? Take into account that some of the people you interview may have had grudges against him that you don't know about. You don't know enough about the subject to know fact from fiction. Now say that you have to do that about new subjects every day, with time pressure to get it done in a hurry. I'm not saying the press is blameless. But if we collectively want to see the problem, part of that involves looking in the mirror. In this incident, the most negative quote comes from another skydiver. If we relearn one of the golden rules, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all", we'd be a lot better off. It is one thing to look for answers in the Incidents forum or such, but another completely to sling mud. To clarify, I'm not referring to you as one of the mudslingers, but we, as a sport, have used the press to air our own dirty laundry and as a means of furthering grudges. If we could get ourselves together, act responsibly and not give out false or unsubstantiated information, the media would end up giving better reports. They'd have to, because they would be getting better information from us. It won't cure everything, but it can help. It also helps to call them on their errors. A few reporters won't care, but most will.

Chris, I'm going to Perris at the end of the month. I really hope I don't drag this crap with me. The folks out there would kill me.

Dave, We are sensitive when tragedy strikes our communities, whether discussing the Bonfire or skydiving incidents. Yet, at the same time, there have been a great many snide comments in the forums about Darwin Award winners and such. Very few people can see the humor when the death is in their back yard, and occasionally the tables are turned and we are on the receiving end of scrutiny and jokes. I don't think it is really fair to play the sarcastic joker when things happen to other people then cry foul when it hits home. Sometimes, we just have to stand up and take our lumps from the media. They are only reflecting the sensationalism and morbidness we all pay them to show us. Some of the stories will be deserved and some won't, some will be factual and some won't, but they all have our names on them. We'll deal with them and move on, as always.

Yeah, you live in about the same area as me, and have been subject to the same spiteful weather patterns.