NickDG

One thing to know about most FAA Regulations are they are written to hold up in court instead of holding something up in the air. Say you pack someone's reserve after being un-current under the rule, and something like a low reserve pull does in your customer. In the course of the investigation it is possible the FAA will want to look at your rigger's logbook. But I'm not sure I ever met a rigger dumb enough to hand over a logbook that shows them as un-current. Also when the local FSDO is investigating an incident involving a rigger the first person they usually contact is the area's Designated Rigger Examiner. If the DRE says, "Oh yeah, I know Ronny Rigger and he's all right," that's about as far as it will go. The worst thing is when the DRE has to say they never heard of you. This could be the case if you are new to an area or didn't take your rigger's test through that particular DRE. If that's the case seek them out and introduce yourself making it a point to smoosh them a little . . . NickD

>>I wonder how hard it would be to ask for a waiver to do 400' BASE rig jumps from aircraft at airshows? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound likely.

I was looking at the date some people joined the forum I was looking at instead of when the posts were made. This accident was just recently. All the info is here: http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=7775&st=0&sk=t&sd=a NickD

Freddy's a Brit who was hurt last year on a B.A.S.E. jump in France and while just looking in on his progress I came across this vid. Just thought it was good flying by Freddy especially the "door" stuff . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffpc5DHWNyI NickD

Just tagging on a photograph of Cowboy . . . NickD

Thanks, I was going from memory and screwed that part up. Interesting take on the 402 though . . . NickD

I'm supposing not too many here would be familiar with Bungee's accident or Cowboy's Caravan crash as it was so long ago now. I too remember Bungee leaving Perris after that Turkey meet and how we heard some hours later that he didn't make it home. I'd come to the conclusion Turkey meets were cursed as for a period of time it seemed something always happened at them. I wrote an article about Cowboy's Caravan crash sometime after it happened and over the years have kept my ears open for any further developments. We know that in 1985 a Cessna Caravan owned by Dave "Cowboy" Williams crashed shortly after take off from the Westwind DZ near Atlanta, GA due to fuel contamination. This was the first Caravan used for skydiving operations and it was purchased not long after Cessna first introduced them. The aircraft was making the rounds of various DZs in the South and on this particular load Dave wasn't flying the plane, but he was in the back and jumping. All sixteen aboard were killed. Cowboy's father wrote a book about the incident but even before that the rumors were flying around about cocaine and drug deals gone wrong. Two weeks prior to the crash Andrew Thornton was found dead in the front yard of a Doctor's house after a botched night jump in Florida. He was dressed all in black, with night vision equipment and several weapons attached to his body. He was also carrying 70 pounds of pure uncut cocaine. No pilot or airplane was ever connected to the incident. This was straight out of "Miami Vice" except it was four years before that TV show premiered. A federal investigation found a link between Andrew Thornton and another man named Dave Williams. But other than the fact they were both skydivers and "friends" that was as far as it went. While the feds were stymied it wasn't too hard for skydivers to start putting events together. Andrew and Dave were partners in a drug running business and rather than go through the dangerous phase of landing a drug laden aircraft at a U.S. airport they used their skydiving skills to eliminate that part of the operation. This also explains were Dave Williams got the money to buy, what in today's money, is a 2 million dollar aircraft. Here's what I think happened the night Andrew Thornton died. I believe Dave was also in the aircraft and was doing the flying. They had acquired a single engine plane (or most likely stole it) to make the flight from probably somewhere in the southwest U.S. into Florida. Over their drop point they set the auto pilot so the aircraft would continue out over the Atlantic Ocean, run out of fuel, and disappear forever. Then they both jumped and Dave landed successfully and Andrew went in for some reasons unknown. I've never seen a rigger's report on the state of his gear. Dave may have been carrying another 70 pounds of cocaine, or maybe not. But he probably beat it out of area as fast as possible. What we don't know is was this the first time they did this, or was it the twentieth? I'd guess it was more the latter. Two weeks later Dave's Caravan crashed and the rumors of sabotage, as someone was out the money for the cocaine, ran rampant. But I've come to the conclusion the crash probably wasn't the result of sabotage as it doesn't fit the MO. If this was retaliation for the drug deal gone wrong someone would have just walked up to Dave (Cowboy) Williams and blew his head off. Fouling a fuel tank is just too iffy a way to try and kill someone. The case got cold over the years until I was at a PIA Convention in Orlando, Florida in the early nineties. I was talking about the Caravan incident with a very intoxicated and well known equipment manufacture who let slip some things he probably shouldn’t have told me. (If I wind up with bullet in my head, you know where to start looking). I won’t ever repeat it as it may have been drunk talk, but it made sense. All through the late 1970s there was no big secret that when a DC-3 or a Twin Beech landed at your DZ while you were sleeping in a tent at three in the morning, you just kept your head down, as there was surely something funny going on . . . NickD

There's no way to fault Bill Booth on this one. If you can "think" like a manufacturer you'd realize they get sick to their stomachs with every fatality. But the downside may be we are rewarding the wrong behavior. For instance a recent thread offered a free t-shirt for anyone's Skyhook story. Call me nuts, but the people who should get a prize are the ones who deploy on time, can recognize a malfunction, and then manage to pull two handles in the correct sequence. And while it's impossible to argue the Skyhook won’t save lives, the flip side is the more we dumb down the gear the more we dumb up the skies . . . NickD

I was going to say it's Jacques Istel but it looks more like him standing at lower right in the suit. Good form by the jumper though, always drop-hang your reserve "handle up!" NickD

While "technically" correct I've never been fully comfortable with that line of thought. And I can fully see the reasoning on both sides. But, it seems we are too quick, for the sake of our own sanity, to say, "Not skydiving," and move on . . . Let's look at what, I think, the OP is really asking; it's what are my chances of being killed in a plane crash because of my involvement with skydiving? We went through this after the So Cal Twin Otter crash that killed 14 jumpers. My thinking was always if those people hadn't woken up that morning and decided to go make a few jumps they'd still be alive. To take this further it seems we "justify" when looking for a cause. It was an airplane part that failed, or a pilot making a mistake, or whatever else it was. But put yourself in the place of a loved one who thinks, "I always hated that skydiving and wish "Johnny" had never taken it up." They will always believe it was "skydiving" that ended Johnny's life. On the other hand if Johnny goes down on a 737 on a business trip to Baltimore it’s just bad luck. Because you skydive you have to realize you are exposing yourself to more "flight risk" than the average person who flies only occasionally. When you ignore that you are just kidding yourself. When I look at my own history I see I've been in three airplanes that "crashed" while I was wearing a rig. Throw in a few emergency exits and a few cautionary exits and that's a lot of incidents that stem wholly from my involvement with skydiving. The question you must ask yourself is what is a root cause and what is the ancillary cause? To me, if you die in a jump aircraft the root cause was the fact you were involved with skydiving, the ancillary cause is whatever brought the plane down . . . At the risk of overdoing my point, if tomorrow night I get arrested for climbing into a building to make a B.A.S.E. jump, I'm going to know I got busted for B.A.S.E. jumping, not simply climbing over someone's fence. NickD

Is the act getting kinda stale? I knew you'd someday progress from fireworks to bombs . . . NickD

This could eventually become a true 24-hour event. You'd just need to get a "waiver" from the FAA on the night landing rule. The whole FAA wavier process is designed exactly for special circumstances like this. And they usually need to have a pretty good reason to turn you down. Being this is out in the desert, with pilots that are reasonably experienced and willing, and there are no innocents involved, then doing this on a full moon night shouldn’t be an issue. Besides wind wise it's only mid-day that's the worst for balloon landings. NickD

>>Or me, the guy that bagged the most hags while on fire jumping into a 3 foot pool. . .

Here's my take on these kind of records, and just something to consider. Since there is no record for most balloon jumps in 24 hour period (that I've ever head of) there's a smarter way to go about it than pounding out as many as you can right off the bat. The first thing to do is popularize the record itself. That means design the parameters so the largest number of people will also shoot for the record. Go for free flight (not tethered) with a minimum pack opening altitude of 2000-feet (USPA-FAI) with regular skydiving gear. Since there is no record at the moment if you just do ten jumps, you've got the record. Then someone comes along behind you and does fifteen, and then you come back and do twenty. And what happens is people will hear of it, not once, but every time someone ups the number and it soon becomes a real life "thing." Records that are never broken just go by the wayside and become jokes like the most dives into a three foot pool while on fire. Nobody cares. If you bang out 50 jumps the very first time out no one else will play and the only time anyone will hear about the great "balloon record" is when you're trying to bag some hag late at night in a bar. Look at what happened at the Perrine Bridge. In 2005 Miles Dasher did 57 B.A.S.E. jumps in 24 hours and he hiked/climbed out after every jump. Nobody has tried to break that record because it's just too hard. If Miles had done 30, then someone could have done 40, than Miles could have come back with 60 and the publicity generated would have been threefold. In 2006 Dan Schilling did 201 B.A.S.E. jumps at the same place in 24 hours but he used a crane to lift himself back to the top of the bridge after each jump. Both these records are terrific achievements but when nobody tries to beat it – the record just dies of old age. In your case, with more people involved, and because you were the first to set the balloon record you'll always know more of what's involved and what the tips and tricks are so you can keep coming back to the top of the heap. At the very least you'll always be known as the "father" of the balloon 24 hour record when you finally can't keep up with the kids anymore. So rather than just being a participant you can be the master of the whole thing. And while you can use Guinness to suck in the sponsors, you absolutely must go FAI for it to be authentic. I mean break the most parachutes descents from a balloon in 24 hours and your name will forever appear with other aviation legends like Chuck Yeager and Joe Kittinger in the FAI record books. If you go with only Guinness your name will probably appear next to the guy who swallowed the most balloons . . . NickD

Part 65 CERTIFICATION: AIRMEN OTHER THAN FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS Subpart F -- Parachute Riggers Sec. 65.121 Type ratings. (a) The following type ratings are issued under this subpart: (1) Seat. (2) Back. (3) Chest. (4) Lap. The above is from the current FARs. While I do understand the use of "type ratings" in the pilot arena I've never understood the need for them based on the "position" someone wears a parachute. A parachute is a parachute is a parachute . . . Do my rigging skills suddenly evaporate if someone sits on their rig? And there are no "type ratings" on my A&P license. Technically I can change a tire on a Cessna 150 and then turn around and swap out an engine on a 747. NickD

>>anything else I need to take from this?

As a former Marine, and a flaming liberal, I love the spirit displayed by our various military organizations. Once in Hawaii I was jumping with the Kaneohe Marine Sport Parachute Club and we screwed up the spot enough to come down in the midst of a VIP golf game full of visiting Japanese dignitaries. When called on the carpet and being dressed down, in front of his battalion commander and the U.S. Japanese ambassador, for not being able to throw things from an aircraft and have them come down in the correct place, our club President said, "Well, we didn’t do so bad in Hiroshima!" NickD

I think many of us are guilty of this in the beginning of our jumping careers, but I see now we put too much emphasis on picking a "home" DZ. Before all the internet info and advertising was available, and before there were so many DZs, it was a more natural process. You looked in the yellow pages under "skydiving instruction" and that place automatically became your home DZ. Now it's more like people are picking a gang to join. We ask, even before we go, are they Crips or Bloods, and what's the "Vibe" like? Well, here's a tip, be your own vibe. And once your instruction period is done float from DZ to DZ. And when you do visit a new DZ just drop your gear bag and lawn chair down and act like you own the joint. Granted this is easier if you live in an area with DZs up the yin yang like I do, but if you have happy feet early on, you'll meet more great people, more people will get to meet the great you, and you'll get a broader education in the sport. And while there are some great DZOs out there not that many are worthy of swearing some half assed oath of allegiance to . . . Where to get your initial instruction? It doesn't really matter, it's how you build on that instruction after you're not a student anymore that determines what kind of skydiver you become. NickD

Well, only to the extent the Monks wouldn't want to use them. Here's a better idea, airdrop in some Recon Marines dressed as Monks to pick off that asshole dictator. NickD

If anything, we should be air dropping a few thousand M-16s to those Monks . . . NickD

Jo, As for the money part, a disinterested flight school or charter outfit is going to soak you. I think you'd do much better with a pilot whose part of the family so to speak. That would be someone with some knowledge of this case and parachuting experience. I know many experienced skydivers who own their own aircraft. One I know in particular (and a woman to boot) might be keen to do it so I'll call her on your behalf today. You'll still need to come up with money for fuel, putting the pilot up in a hotel and whatnot – so if someone else here sets up a "Get Jo Up" fund I'll kick in the first 50 bucks. A few other things. Drop the night flight idea. While it would give you somewhat the same "feeling" Cooper faced, all you'd see in that area on the best night would be stars, horizon, and inky blackness down below. If you are adamant about seeing what it would look like a short night flight around whatever airport you're operating out of would provide it. Also drop the 10,000-foot altitude thing. I don't know without checking what the ground elevation of the area in question is, but that elevation would need to be added in and that would probably be pushing comfortable general aviation aircraft operating altitudes. Besides from 10,000-feet you'll see little detail of what you're flying over. Jo, regardless of how this all turns out, I think you deserve to make this flight! NickD

>>As a student, I was never told to check the reserve card.

I know Jeff, he's a great guy, and he used to run the San Diego (Borderland) DZ when Jamie from WA owned it . . . NickD

Weren't they basically "Trim Tabs" like some Crw jumpers were using? You could pull down the front risers and lock them in place. And you just released them prior to landing . . . NickD

>>His reserves didn't have pilot chutes on them