NickDG

>>What about a McCutaway? I was firmly informed (only partly tongue in cheek) that a McCutaway is neither a skydive (no aircraft) nor a BASE jump (no packed rig when leaving the object).

There was a time in skydiving when some deaths are being attributed to "target fixation." I never totally agreed with that theory and thought it a catch all answer when no one could figure out what a person was doing instead of deploying. Wingsuit skydivers (as a rule) just don't go low enough to become entranced. Now if a rogue DZ opened somewhere that catered only to low pulling wing suited skydivers they'd probably catch up in a hurry . . . The phenomenon however, seems very real in wingsuit BASE jumping. And why? Because jumpers are being seduced by the very thing that brought them to BASE jumping in the first place. While I've never experienced it myself, skimming along low in a wingsuit is probably the closest thing to the dreams we've all had about flight. Peter Garrison, a writer for FLYING magazine, said it like this; "In occasional dreams I run hard and then with a strenuous and indescribable motion of the thorax, I launch myself into flight. I remain airborne through sheer concentration, sweeping along close to the ground. The sensation is profoundly pleasurable and I have never found a way to duplicate it in waking life." NickD

Yes, he did alright. He's less arrogant now and I think he's learning people skills, growing up, etc. (Like all of us.) The, how do you pronounce "California" thing was funny, yet Jay Leno calling him modest was a bit much. One thing I noticed is when they played the Jesus jump (as Felix is standing on the hand) I thought I noticed a murmur of "hey, that's not cool" from the audience, but Felix saved himself by saying something like, "What can go wrong when you're in God's hand?" And that drew a big cheer . . . The shout out to Space was cool. I always like it when interviewed jumpers mention the history of the sport, or at least explain they didn't invent the whole thing themselves, but it was a short segment and that's always too much to hope for in most cases. I'm not sure if Felix fully knows yet if he's representing himself or the sport. When he began jumping it was all him, all the time. Now it seems like a 50/50 mix. Oh, and kids. The phony license plate thing is a no-no. Getting caught fleeing a BASE jump is one thing, getting caught fleeing a BASE jump with phony license plates is another . . . Yes, he did alright. NickD

Whatever the precursor is, it must impart air sense, and nothing besides skydiving does that, so far . . NickD

Okay, case closed . . . I'll add Ken and Robert to a third section of the List. Thanks, everyone for replying . . . NickD

>>Mike Alderman left my father for dead at the bottom of a very cold canyon one November night back in '91. If not for a local Indian and a helicopter, he would have in fact died. Not shure I'dd list that guy among any of the "greats." But hey, idolize whoever you please. No one's ever worth it anyway.>He also conned a 19 year old who was thousands of miles from home into maxing his credit cards and handing over the cash, then never repayed it.

>>Maybe making a poll thread would make it easier for you to tally the vote...

Here's a bit of follow-up. I took that photograph at BD '86. And it "was" an accepted way of modifying a skydiving rig for BASE jumping at the time. The canopy is free packed no tailpocket; the lines are just coiled in the bottom of the container. It made it easier to close without, being too tight, if you'd packed it tight enough to not have any canopy showing, you could then lift the rig off the ground by the bridle. The canopy isn't in a bag, which at the time was the bigger of two evils. When I look at it now I see the potential for that extra long closing loop (people were selling them) to go whipping through all those grommets so fast, because of the big BASE pilot chute attached, that it wouldn't be too hard to suck some F-111 through a grommet. Not to mention it just looks like doomsville. Hence, the Yikes part . . . NickD

This person survived, "this era" of BASE jumping to become BASE 281 . . . NickD

Man, if only Ddog wasn't such a lead foot . . . NickD

>> why craig kuske isn't on the list he was a base jumper who died skydiving last year at xkeys. >He said that on New Year's Eve, at midnight, someone jumped from the 51st floor and impacted and died on the 40th floor parking structure roof. This was news to me!

It's now fifteen for, and seventeen against. (One or two others made good points, but didn't voice a vote.) None of those proposed section names are going to fly, LOL . . . NickD

Wow Jimbo, Sitting here thinking where I could get more on this episode, and their you are right under my nose . . . How's this idea? I'll create a third section on the List for Ken and Robert Overacker. (In 1995 Robert rode over Horseshoe Falls on a jet ski. He attempted to deploy a rocket propelled parachute, but something went wrong.) Is that acceptable to everyone that thinks I shouldn't put them on the List at all? We could call it . . . what? NickD

However, the below is also a good point . . . >>Do you need to die starting on your second BASE jump to be considered for the lists.

>>I would have to say NOT. The people on the bottom part of the list are BASE jumpers who died doing something other than. The people on the first part of the list died BASE jumping. Ken died trying to achieve an exit point and had never BASE jumped previously... If you put him in the top part then Neil should be in the top part. The bottom portion seems to be in rememberance of BASE jumpers, not things to avoid while riding a MC or flying an airplane.

Bertrand Cloutier, BASE 318, Quebec . . . NickD

>>While I am an outsider to this, I kind of feel that those on the list would welcome him, being his intentions and all.

At least to my part of the world . . . So how low can YOU go? NickD

Six for, thirteen against . . . NickD

>>I keep hearing about floating puds...if you pud gets knocked loose, reach back to the pin, grab the bridle that is loose, pull to full arm extension and let go, you just deployed your main.>Years ago, when safety wasn't so paramount, a guy I jumped with use to pull mine out everytime I climbed out of the cessna. It is not hard at all to reach back and grab it.

Okay, so far, including one PM, it's six for and nine against. Good point about the cautionary nature of Ken's story, Tom. After all, that a big part of what the List is all about . . . NickD

>>Why not put him on the "jumpers outside the sport" section? I see some strong parallels with at least one other person who is in that section

Now it's five for and five against . . . When the Perris Twin Otter (PV21) crashed on take off we has this same discussion. Some where saying those 16 people died skydiving and some said it had nothing to do with skydiving; they were just flying in a plane. In my mind at the time I remember thinking if those 16 people didn't wake up that morning and decide to go skydiving they'd still be alive. But, then if someone dies in auto accident on the way to the DZ . . . I was sort of hoping for a consensus one way or the other, but it's looking like a split decision. There's a logics lesson in this somewhere, but there's never a Vulcan around when you need one . . . NickD

Well, so far that's four for putting him on the List and four for keeping him off . . . NickD

I need some advice . . . In November of 1980 Ken Sawyers died attempting a BASE jump from the St. Louis Gateway Arch and I'm wondering if he should be included in the BASE Fatality List. I bring it up as I've been talking to someone who knew him, and they asked why he wasn't. When you read the story below you'll see why I didn't initially include him, but now I'm thinking I should. I'd like your opinions please . . . The ARCH 1991, The Fixed Object Journal When he heard that a skydiver had gone in trying to land on the top of the Gateway Arch, John Louis called his friend Ken Swyers to find out who the numb nut was. If anyone knew it would be Ken, he was the USPA Area Safety Officer and was in touch with all the "fringe" jumpers. After what seemed like a long time Ken's 15-year old son answered the phone. "No, they aren't here, they went somewhere early this morning." Ken Swyers was 33-years old when he died and it stunned the local parachuting community. He once jumpmastered a female student who died (not his fault) and it effected him greatly. After that he gained a reputation for being tough on jumpers he considered reckless. What the World Trade Center Towers mean to jumpers in New York is what the Gateway Arch means to jumpers in St. Louis, a colossal dare to the imagination. Since its construction 20-years ago, the 638-foot high stainless steel structure is the center of focus in the city. You cannot escape the Arch, it surrounds and engulfs you. A jacket sold at Archway, the local DZ, comes with a patch that shows a jumper in freefall between the legs of the Arch. Although Arch jumping was always a topic of conversation to locals, the problem remained how to get up there. An elevator carried tourists to the top, but only on the inside, with no way outside. Ken pondered the problem for some time before hitting upon the idea of attacking the Arch from above. His plan became landing one parachute on the top of the Arch, and then jumping off with another. Jumping the Arch became Ken's Holy Grail and he was consumed by the mission. His wife, Millie, remembers Ken talking about an Arch jump as early as 1974. They used to spend time early in their relationship sitting in the warm sun with their backs against the massive legs of the structure. The year 1980 was a time of great controversy between BASE jumpers and skydivers. Contempt for what USPA was calling "That's Incredible Fever" (a reference to an old TV show the likes of Real TV) was plentiful. The owner of the Archway DZ said, "I have over four thousand jumps and I still find that thrilling. I can't understand why people would look for fixed objects to jump from." Ken tended to line up with skydivers on the issue. He showed disdain for people who did fixed object jumps, especially with the cameras rolling. Yet, Millie recalls, how excited her husband became after seeing a TV program that featured BASE jumping. At some point in early 1980 Ken's talk of an Arch jump started to sound less like dreaming and more like planning. He did recons of the grounds surrounding the Arch and he spent long hours sketching the terrain and planning his getaway. With the help of some friends, Ken assembled a team for his assault on the Arch. One friend was to retrieve Ken's main canopy when he threw it from the top. Two others would film and take still photographs. Millie would drive the getaway car. In the fall Ken made his first attempt. The winds were strong and the turbulence surrounding the top of the Arch caused Ken to abort his approach. He landed next to the base of the structure and sped away. His jump was only seen by a few people and except for an airborne traffic reporter who reported seeing a parachute, no one took much notice. It wasn't until late November that he tried it again. Debate among the team on how best to approach the Arch is ongoing. They were telling him the best way is from across the 17-foot wide structure. That way, if he couldn't get purchase on the slick surface, he could just keep on going off the other side before his canopy fully deflated. Ken, however, wanted to approach the Arch spanwise. He thought this would significantly improve his chances of landing on the top. The team argued the danger of falling down one of the legs if he landed long or short. The team's plan made surviving more likely if anything went wrong, Ken's plan improved the odds for success. Ken won out. The next problem was what should he do once he landed on the Arch. And this is where the plan starting coming apart. He seemed more concerned with what to do with his cutaway main, which was a gift from Millie, than how he was going to accomplish the second part of the jump. He decided to carefully roll up the main and drop it to a team member below. He would then just step off the top of the Arch and immediately pull his reserve handle. The morning of November 22, 1980 was calm and clear. Ken rose early and gathered his team. A pilot was lined up to fly Ken over the Arch and they departed a small out of the way airport to avoid detection. By the time the A/C approached the Arch the winds had picked up somewhat. The team on the ground held their breath as Ken exited the plane. They watched as Ken approached the top of the Arch and then lost sight of him and they waited. "Where was he," they wondered, "what happened?" Soon they all heard an eerie, drawn out metallic sound followed by a loud thud at the base of the Arch. The sounded reverberated back up the legs of the Arch and then all went quiet. The silence was finally broken by screams and the pounding of feet running for the bottom of the north leg. Millie knew, without seeing, what happened. She walked the last 100 yards to her husband's body slowly. She brushed aside the few who tried to hold her back and knelled by her husband. The main canopy she bought him was still attached to his harness. She whispered something in his ear and covered him with a jacket. He lay just yards from where the couple used to sit years ago. A witness, who remarkably turned out to be a skydiver, was coming out of her apartment, looked up at the plane and saw Ken jump. She said he landed part way down the north leg of the Arch, an area that is still relatively flat. She said his main started to deflate, but then it looked like a gust of wind caught it. The canopy pulled Ken off his feet and onto his back before he started a headfirst slide down the leg. At that point Ken pulled the reserve ripcord, but the canopy just trailed behind, and never inflated. What surprised other jumpers so much is how poorly planned the whole thing was. He never attempted to get any blueprints of the Arch, which might have alerted him to the large air vents located on top that may had added to his troubles. He wore old tennis shoes that wouldn't give him much grip on the metal surface, and the structure was still wet from the morning dew. Millie is sure from the moment he landed on the Arch Ken knew it was his last jump. She figures Ken had only two seconds to realize it was all going wrong before he started to slide. A battered as he was, Millie says, his face in death wasn't of a horrified person. He looked calm and relaxed. He even had that slight smile only someone close to him would recognize. "It was the kind of smile he'd get when he just put something over, done something ornery, and was waiting for everyone else to get the joke. At the end of 1980 local news was calling the Arch jump one of the top stories of the year. Meanwhile on the wall at the Archway DZ, up on the wall, in black felt pen, it says," Ken Swyers, RIP, First Man to Stand on Top of the Gateway Arch. ----------------------------------- So that's the dilemma. I think Ken deserves to be remembered, but I hate to raise the fatality number, for what isn't clearly a BASE jump. This story has a lot in common with the fellow who went over Niagara Falls planning to use a rocket deployed canopy to save himself, but that was probably more of a BASE jump than this was and he's not on the List. (However if I add Ken, I probably add him too.) So what do you think, should Ken be on the List? He had no previous BASE experience from what I can find out. If you believe he should be added, then where, top section or bottom? NickD