NickDG

Someone may accomplish this someday but doesn't this come up every few years? There was a group back in the 80s called "Ten Miles High" and they even had some of the spacesuits needed, but I think they eventually had problems raising enough money. Rodd Millner's jump from 40 km/25 miles in Australia was put off when the backers who were instrumental in raising the ten million dollars needed were killed aboard one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center Towers. Cheryl Stearns is still trying to get enough funding for her attempt. http://stratoquest.com/ Michel-Andre Fournier's is also seeking funding for his attempt at 40 km/25 miles. http://www.legrandsaut.org/ It's the same for all: No Bucks, no Buck Rogers . . . Also many talk of breaking Joe Kittenger's freefall record when his jump from 102,000-ft wasn't really a freefall. It was drogue fall using what's called a ballute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballute (It was still ballsy though). I think the actual "freefall" altitude record is held by a Russian jumper. NickD

Wow, that's really cool . . . I remember from the movie "The Gypsy Moths" it looked pretty stable, but "looked" is the operative word there. Who knows? And I think they were all the same type and size reserve canopies. Good job! NickD

Jay's right on all (no one around BASE back in the day would forget Mary!) I don't recall the last fellow's name either, but I did know him at one time. The "Yellow Shirts" photo is from Bridge Day '85 if that helps . . . NickD

>>I would imagine a young Bill Legg>Eric (can't think of his last name).

No way, Jan, I know both Rick and Tom well, and it's Tom Allen when he wore a beard. Besides Rick is way taller, about as tall as Fred Lundquist. And in the earlier Bird photo that isn't Rick Horn either as he didn't start jumping until 1978 . . . (kind of a newbie, LOL). And that's not Yuki either . . . NickD

Yes, that's Karen Dodd, Tom Allen, and me. This was at Borderland (San Diego) in about 1979. In "old demo" I'm not sure if it's "Barry Chase" but he's on a pretty well known CRW team in the '80s. The one, I think, that morphed into the "Ghost Riders" in the '90s. Steve Vickers was a student of mine. The last two photos might throw you as they are BASE related . . . NickD

Johan stuck it to the French (again) . . . http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/mostpopular/news-article.aspx?storyid=57890&provider=top NickD

Welcome to the sport, Chris! The beginning is best, the rest is just practice . . . NickD BASE 194

>>Obviously I couldn't check my altitude during the track

>>Here in Scandinavia we wouldnt even look at it as a jump. To short and to underhung A sure testament to how it was and how it is now. That's the best part of BASE. And it's the reason we, all of us, deserve a round of applause . . . Progress is a funny thing. Sometimes you can't really enjoy it, because someone is always telling you it's not progress at all, it's just the way it is . . . NickD BASE 194

Clair, It's always been hard to figure where the line lies between "old school" and "new school" in this sport as it is constantly shifting. But, I think I'm safe in saying, in a personal sense, that line of demarcation clearly separates you and I. I do, on the other hand, respect your opinion enough to answer you, and also others, who have voiced a negative view of the List. As I've now removed the List from the Internet I also owe an explanation to its supporters. I won't begin by saying the BASE community was more tightly knit when the List began, as I'm sure Clair, in your world, it seems the same. So I'll try to hit the solvent points and forgive me if I'm not at my best, as today my soul feels dusted . . . I always endeavor to put other's opinions in some kind of context. I think Jason Bell actually believes the sport would be better off without the List. He is a proponent of more legal sites and there's no doubt that would be easier to achieve, in most cases, without us trotting out our mistakes. Jimmy Halliday makes the case that no one should be reduced to being a name on the List. Point taken, and you'd never know the responsibility of editing someone's life into a single paragraph unless you had to do it. But the ying to that yang, is no one who begins BASE jumping in the next five years will even know Jimmy Hall's name if he wasn't on the List. I also see it as a bit disingenuous, on your part Jimmy, that you never expressed angst for any former members of the List, until your "friend" was about to join it. And you must admit, even as I know you're not exactly a newbie, you must see people's names on the List you never heard of, and wouldn't know. And they had friends too. Then there is the subject of numbering the fatalities. Clair, in your case, you came to BASE when the number had maybe lost its original meaning. I remember when we would sit around and lament 15 of us being dead. Many, and most who don't inhabit your world, are still around and the number being at 112 does mean something to them. Its not abstract, it’s just a longer view you don’t yet hold. I'm here to tell you, when in the latter stages of your life, and BASE career, you'll probably change your mind. If I'm wrong I can only hope I'm around in twenty years to hear about it . . . Jason, you're easy to say to the List should reflect facts and figures, but the List, since day one was never about that. As you've been the chief proponent against the List I'll tell you this. The List is all about the human aspect, and what makes it real is the names and the numbers and, you brother, you are stone cold in your resentment of that. The List, in my final analysis, is a map of where we've been and where we are going. I'll suggest those that disagree are agenda driven and aren’t capable of having the best interests of the sport at heart. That's a pretty strong statement. But if proven wrong I will aqueous. But god help us if I'm right . . . I'll leave you with this. Don’t make the mistake that I won’t enjoy not doing the List anymore. I'll revel in it. It’s the very reason I didn't pass it on to someone else. I couldn't, in clear conscious, saddle someone else with something so depressing. So in a way, yes, I caved. I caved to a present generation not willing or able to see the value of it. And in the end the book burners George Orwell warned us about, won out. But, know this. The final fatality listed on the BASE Fatality List wasn't a living breathing brother or sister, it was more than that, it was the truth . . . NickD BASE 194

Love old photo threads . . . and I hope this isn’t too much of a hijack. Here's a few that ran in the now defunct Los Angeles Times. Wiggins: This shows Mary Wiggins about to make her 13th jump in 1931. The paper made a big deal about jump #13 being the, "jinx jump." Lobe: Also from 1931 this shows gear manufacturers were never shy about plastering their name all over our gear. (I do like the shoes though . . .) Haystack: This one is from 1977 and shows Evel Knievel and his plan to exit an airplane and land in a haystack without using a parachute. I suppose it's a good thing for Jeb Corliss that Evel never followed through . . . NickD

"As a member of the Anexx club..." Give Anne a call, she could use it right now. NickD BASE 194

You should all see hollyhjb in person. She graced my house for dinner once . . . Killer, beautiful, and capable . . . NickD BASE 194

Space, what I remember is you and I standing beside the "ditch" at DeLand in 1989, when "swooping" was called "Ditch Digging" and you said this was going to be bad for the sport in the long run, and you were right . . . NickD BASE 194

A couple of things . . . Jimmy & Clair, the . . . punctuation is nothing more than a personal writing style I've been using for thirty years and you're reading a bit too much into them. One poster up-board came closest in explaining them as my way of not over explaining things and leading perceptive readers to think for themselves. In reality they are called ellipsis and are used to omit text that is (or should be) already understood. I abuse that rule for sure, but again, it's just a personal style. Also, if you look a bit more closely at the List you'll see that most reports include sentences encased in quotation marks ("-") and some that aren't. The quoted sections are from reports I receive from jumpers directly (or as directly as possible) involved in the fatality. The unquoted sentences are my own and I think it comes across that I'm as careful as possible with those. In days past the early BASE magazines, specifically BASEline and the BASE Gazette in the 1980s were printing BASE accident reports and drawing inaccurate conclusions and it was a lesson I took to heart. As far as comparing the List reporting style to what the USPA does, their reports are, by design, impersonal and they often resort to merely stating violations of standing BSRs. The problem is that never tells the whole story. The fact USPA never mentions names or locations is purely political and if you think that through you should be able to understand the reasons why . . . On your contention that I'm reporting on people I don’t know is, in a way, right and wrong. I did know almost everyone in the early section of the List, and if not in person at least through phone contact or letters. And the rest of the List contains many people in the same way. But the sport has grown so much nobody can know everyone. I'm the old fart who still believes in the "brotherhood" so I can't help but feel in a way I do know them all. We, all of us, are only separated by a few degrees at best. For instance, you said you, "don't know who does the List." While I don’t think we've met face to face you did talk to me on the phone when you called a major gear manufacture trying to purchase gear for Clair. Granted, maybe you didn't put two and two together but that seems like a stretch. And what does "know" mean anyway? If either of us is asked if we know each other we are a long way from saying, "never heard of him." And I hope you'll give me a bit of credit here. When I refused to sell you the rig because Clair was underage it wasn't a statement on what you were doing, it was protecting my boss and the years he put in order to make the sport safer. Now to the meat of the matter – Is the List appropriate and useful? There are as many ways to view it as there are people with opinions. In the long view I started the List in 1987 and we circulated it among ourselves via email. At that time there were only about a dozen names on the List. And certainly we were trying to learn from the mistakes of others. In those days no one wrote, with certainty, how to go about BASE jumping. The best advice at the time usually started with, "I tried this and it didn’t work, so don't do that." I'm not sure you can relate to that time, but in a way, even with mentors and the courses available we are still doing the same thing. However, now it's more because we ignore the past and the lessons that reside there. On the statement I "enjoy" doing the List. Gee, Jimmy, I don’t know how to respond to that. If, for some wild reason you actually believe that, I'm here to say I don't. I think, like most old timers, I take a certain responsibility for the sport. We, and I'm including you here, did our little bit to popularize the sport. My way was more in house and yours is a bit more out there. But, except for the totally underground ones, most BASE jumpers do share a responsibility for it. I think, closer to home, you probably take BASE jumping seriously and I'll thank you to extend me the same. On, should the List be public? I've grabbled with that one since day one. In the end I came down on the side of the truth can't hurt us. In another way it's us taking responsibility for what we are doing. Sure, we could sweep it under the rug, but what good is a clean house that is filthy underneath? I've heard, over the years, from enough jumpers, wuffos, and media types to know the List has value. I actually got a kick from Clair's reasoning that "other" sports don’t make use of Lists in a similar manner. But I think it's only because no one was around in the beginning with the idea to keep track. Imagine if there was no BASE Fatality List and someone today decided to compile one. It would be impossible. The facts and figures that make the List valuable would be lost to modern day interpretations. I sometimes look at some of the early reports and find I must resist the temptation to change them in light of modern events. But I know they are more valuable, at least for the discerning reader, when they are presented in the context of what we knew at the time. It's what makes the List a living breathing thing. My tenure as the person who does the List is in its waning days. I don't want to do it anymore. It's too depressing for me. I've been looking, over the last couple of years, at a short list of people who have expressed interest in taking it over, and some that haven’t, but who I believe could and might if I asked them. I'm also open do doing away with it altogether. I don’t believe any of us, as individuals; have BASE jumping completely figured out yet, but as a group I think we do a pretty good job. So, I'm saying I'm listening, and if I thought now, or at sometime in the future, a majority thought the List should go away, I would make it so . . . NickD BASE 194

The Flexon was an innovative rig when it was first introduced in the early 90s owning to making ring articulation popular in the sport. I put together some of the early Flexon print advertisements that ran in SKYDIVING and PARACHUTIST. Anyone remember, "It's Not Just a Gear Choice, It's an Attitude . . ." That was mine, LOL. It was also the first rig to make use of a fabric called "Antron." Not all of them had it, but a couple of tips are if the Antron starts to fuzz up an electric razor cleans things up nicely. You could also spill beer on it would just bead up. The sport's a bit different nowadays, but that was a worthy selling point back then. On a side note the evolution of riser covers and tuck tabs are worth a mention here. It used to be we jumped rigs that had no riser covers at all. And an often seen sight in those days was being in a RW formation and looking over to see someone's steering line floating a few feet above their rigs. Its why, to this day, most old timers are so anal about stowing their control lines and toggles so securely. Now the opposite is happening as riser covers work so well (on most rigs) many folks don't stow their excess control line at all. I think its nuts taking a chance on two big fat loops floating around if you have some kind of weird malfunction, but it seems many don’t worry about it. Also there's a notion in the sport that since the advent of free flying every rig built prior is obsolete, and that's baloney. So, as long as it's fully airworthy, enjoy your Flexon . . . NickD

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=937_1178586235 NickD

http://www.gizoogle.com/ NickD BASE 194

I asked that it be removed and I apologize to all who were offended. I should have thought that one through a bit more . . . NickD BASE 194

We'd kill for for a cliff like that in So Cal . . . NickD BASE 194

He's awake and alert after his surgery yesterday. And it looks as if he'll recover, but with a bit of a rough road ahead though . . . NickD BASE 194

Thanks to everyone who wrote with congratulations. I've heard from a lot of people and now realize there is a large EMS family within parachuting. Coco, didn't I meet your Dad at a Bridge Day? Where is he teaching? If I go that route I might look him up. There is no Intermediate here in California; it's either Basic or Paramedic. And there aren't too many P-schools here either so they are hard to get into. I'd already enrolled in an ED-Tech class, and it was supposed to start this week, but UCLA just cancelled it, so I'm waiting to hear why. It was the only one I could find in So Cal, so if anyone knows of another one, please let me know. On a sadder note, I'm going down to Mercy Hospital in San Diego today to see Eric. He posts here in the BASE Zone as "grundleson" and he had a very serious paragliding accident on Saturday. I'll update this later today . . . NickD BASE 194

>> Ok, so was the girl that died BASE jumping or a suicide? The article doesn't say

>>than from NickDG about the BASE jumpers and the jump. Okay, watch me climb out on this limb . . . I haven't said anything in this thread, because it's not BASE jumping, but since you dragged me in. I believe we are going to see this type of "proximity skydiving" explode in popularity. I think this for a couple of reasons. One is I'd bet every skydiver who flies a wing suit is looking at this and thinking, "Gee, that's pretty cool and something I could do." Maybe not to the extent Jeb's doing it, but in a more general way. And any DZ close to the right geographical features could offer proximity flights. If you go along with that idea it brings up some real interesting coming attractions. Proximity flying is the missing link, the last piece of the puzzle, for skydiving with a wing suit. It's why flying a wing suit passed clouds or in flocks is more fun than just zipping along by yourself. Proximity flying, it can be said, started on the BASE side of the house. What did all early BASE jumpers say when asked what the main difference was between BASE and skydiving? They said it was "flying close to the object," and in those days they meant having a building or tower whipping by close behind them. The next step, and probably the first actual proximity flying was done under canopy at places like Half Dome in Yosemite. In the late 1980s jumpers were doing canopy "touch and goes" on rock outcroppings there on the way to the LZ. Patrick de Gayardon was doing proximity flying in the mountains with a wing suit in the early 90s but he was too far ahead of his time. Now here's where it's going to get interesting. How long can it be before some skydiver puts two and two together. BASE jumping, in its almost 30 year history, has blown major holes in a forever held skydiving tenant. You must initiate deployment at 2000-feet. Sooner or later some wing suit skydiver is going to show up on a U.S. DZ with a TSO'd German BASE rig and ask why not? A hapless USPA will only be able to fall back on saying, "because we said so that's why." And it would be the beginning of a major revolt and the first big sea change on the DZ since playing hacky sack went away. In the broader sense wing suit terminal at 500-feet (and lower) is proximity flying too. There's even a silver lining to it. Its possible bringing back low-aspect ratio canopies to the DZ would put a dent in the low turn death machines in use now. Yeah, okay I hear you. Sure, there would be a steep learning curve for skydivers and lives would be lost. But skydivers would get the hang of it sooner or later just like BASE jumpers did. And when you figure in big open DZs and no hard object right behind them, it's probably safer to open low at the DZ than it is on most BASE jumps. The next step in the revolt is skydivers finally realizing they need a reserve because they have a reserve. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but we learned long ago simple is more reliable and it's a well proven concept. Is it possible we could actually make the case that because the FAA mandates "two parachutes" the resulting Rube Goldberg rig is a reason so many people are killed? It's a funny thing about the course of our lives, the serendipity of winding up somewhere entirely different from where you thought you were heading. There was plenty of fixed object jumping before Carl Boenish came along and popularized the sport of BASE. It's why we call him the father of BASE and not the inventor of fixed object jumping. In the same way, I can see Jeb becoming the "father" of "proxy-flight." But, hey Jeb, you just need to come up with a better name for it . . . NickD BASE 194