Guru312

As the co-inventor of the hand-held and pen-sized signal flare assembly known as an illumination signal, Mk 79 Mod 0, that we marketed to the military during Viet Nam, I am of the opinion the bag he carried could easily have contained a launcher and a few dozen flare carts. Our flares went 250 feet up and burned with a brilliant red light. The light could easily seen for many miles by any 'extraction' aircraft--although only a helicopter would be of much service in that terrain. Since no reports of signal flare activity exist in anything that I've read on the FBI site or anywhere else, I'm assuming my flare gun assumption holds little credence. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Move your courser over the copy and the pointer will become a spyglass with a plus in the middle. Left click and the picture should get bigger. Works for me using Firefox. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Not my log book but this is kinda funny... In the early 70s I was flying for Mike Schultz at Pelicanland in Maryland. The instructor, Jim MacIntyre, was a good friend of mine. Jim and I sat together at an ICC at which Scott Newman also attended. Jim told me a story about when Scott was learning to jump his dad, actor Paul Newman visited the DZ one day when Miss America--or some other such starlet who wanted to parachute for publicity--was in the first jump class. All through the day there were quite a few paparazzi photographers wanting to photograph Paul Newman. This pissed off Miss America because Paul was getting more attention than she was. After her jump, Jim went to Paul and asked him to sign the woman's first jump certificate which Paul gladly did. When Jim handed handed the certificate to the woman, she stuck her nose in the air and said, "I don't want HIS autograph on MY certificate." So...she got a certificate with Jim MacIntyre's name instead of Paul Newman's. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Many years ago I attempted to break the world parachute endurance record which was then held by Woody Binnicker to whose post I am responding right now. Woody held the record for some time. Come on, Woody, tell us about it. Didn't you also set a record for most harness chaffing, Woody? I currently hold the world record for parachuting night pukes, which, interestingly, no one has ever attempted to break. Hopefully, no one will ever try to break my record. You can read about it here: http://aicommand.com/PukeDuke.htm Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Let's get this in perspective, folks. Hurrican Gilbert, "The Storm of the Century" had peak winds of 173 knots. 173 knots is 199.084845 mph. The plane, with flaps and wheels down, is aerodynamically dirty and kicking up some wild turbulence. And DB jumped into this literal 200 MPH hurricane with a hastily tied package of money. Up thread, various comments indicate how wild the 727 exit is. The more I know, the more convinced I am that he lost the money. Using suspension line to tie the package would be very difficult, I think. Can any riggers comment on the difficulty of using the lines of a conical reserve to wrap a package capable of withstanding 200 mph? Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Opinions? I have a canvas bag full of them. Opinion 1: IF the rip cord was hard to find and he is wearing a second rig with a rip cord and he has a canvas bag filled with money around his waist and he has difficulty lowering the stairs and he backs down the stairs and he jumps off backward into the night and the aircraft is cruising at greater than 150 mph and he is wearing slip-on leather shoes and he is anxious THEN The chances of him tumbling radically during exit and freefall is very high. THEN His confusion level will be high regarding finding the ripcord. THEN IF he found the ripcord AND IF he was able to pull it THEN Opening shock on his sleeve-less, conical, emergency canopy would be so great that the package would probably be ripped from his body. Even with the heavy overcast and the rain he saw stars. Opinion 2: In the very unlikely event that the money found years ago was intentionally dropped by Cooper as a decoy action to throw off anyone chasing him or if in the very probabale event that he lost control of the money bag because of a significant opening shock as described above...a small portion of the money was found. Following the stream/river on which the money was found upstream and branching into ever tributory along the river should yield all possibile points of origin of the money. If a radar track of the plane is available for that night a comparison of the track and river tributaries should narrow down the location significantly. Once the area of probability is determined from the above, all towns or communities which fall within that area could be contacted through their TV or newspaper media. Residents within the probability area could be asked if a scratched, bloody--and shoeless guy--knocked on their door for help around the time of the jump 36 years ago. Opinion 3: I think he lost the money because of opening shock. If he was able to extricate himself from a tree landing I think he probably died from exposure without ever finding the money after he lost it. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Comments such as those made by Stratostar--to which Ckret is responding--have been made regarding Skyjack71 since the fifth posted response in this thread, which Skyjack71 started, when DJL commented like this: "Seriously guys, you're just being mean. Don't you have better things to do than pick on old ladies on the internet. Who cares if she's on a wild goose chase." Jo has written...often!...that she isn't interested in any theory or speculation which doesn't have her ex-hubby in DB Cooper's shoes. Historically, she has, in my estimation, not taken kindly to folks, such as myself, who hold to a perspective different than her own. I have been fascinated with DB since the afternoon that guys in my shop and myself--all jumpers and pilots--heard a news broadcast about his exploit and from which I got the inspiration for my hijacking advert. Jo Weber chooses to ignore any thoughts or evidence which doesn't agree with her perspective, which is that a bullshitting con artist and ex-convict--who she married--was telling the truth for once in his life when he said he was the world famous hijacker DB Cooper. Mrs. Weber fails to realize how many bar-fly-skydiver-wannabes use the line "I'm a skydiver and really cool; wanna go to bed with me?" for picking up chicks. If a guy is going to use the very old "I'm a skydiver" line, he may as well go all the way with the bull crap and claim to be D B Cooper. That's what I'm convinced Duane Weber did with Jo. While I understand Ckret's desire for civil dialog, I think that with him not being a jumper, he doesn't know that we jumpers call "Bullshit!" a whole lot sooner than those in the non-jumping wuffo public. I don't want to sound all philosophical here, but, after nearly 50 years of hanging around jumpers and pilots, I'm convinced that, overall, we jumpers are more honest, straight forward and "no bullshit" than the public in general. From the traits that Jo has written about her husband, I don't think Duane meets the FBI profiler "got enough balls" requirement for jumping out of an airplane as a tandem passenger--let alone the balls to jump alone at night out of a 727 from ten grand into the cold and the rain. The real DB Cooper lost his payload during opening shock. Jo Weber lost her objective perspective on reality when she fell in love with a con artist in a piano bar. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

You bet, it's Guru! Damn, guys, you gave me up that fast??!! Just see if I give you a cut from my next caper. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

In my estimation, the picture shows a package wrapped with no more than one length of suspension line. Why did he cut so much more than he'd really need? The picture shows a package wrapped in plastic...and so neatly tucked and wrapped you'd think a Hadassah lady from the mall wrapped it. I know nothing of the size, shape and weight of $200K in $20s. Is the package in the picture realistic for the amount of money? What would a package of money in a canvas bag look like? Certainly not like that picture. The 'size of the money' in relation to volume of the bag could make wrapping it up neatly in the confines of an airplane galley a very difficult package to wrap. Under the duress of the situation, he'd have one hell of a time wrapping the package and securing it to himself. After wrapping it he needs to tie it onto the harness. Stuffing one end through...and pulling...and reaching... and pulling and repeating it over... and over and over. A disaster of a tie job under the best of circumstances. The more I think about the exit, the cold, the night, the hastily wrapped package and the effect of the slipstream on him..and the package...convinces me that he lost the package. Think about it: he and his half-ass wrapped package went from zero to terminal in about one second. As soon as he and the package were hit by the windblast he was tossed around like going over Niagra in a barrel. The found money is the evidence. Had he lived through the jump, the freefall, the opening shock and and a frigging night-rain-trees-freezing-landing, he wouldn't be dropping a few grand here and there in hope of throwing off those searching for him. His thoughts would be on finding shelter from the elements...and staying alive. He lost the money...and probably his life Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

I have thought much about this whole issue and I agree with Zing that it was thought out, but I don't know how well. As with anything being done for the first time, one can't always anticipate the difficulties and the consequences---Murphy's Law is always there, lurking, Zing. Where I see the planning being less than needed is with the issue I've read here recently about DB cutting up a rig to tie the money to his body. Am I correct that the FA told of DB securing the money to his body with line from one of the rigs? If he did, in fact, tie the money to his body, I think this was his biggest error. I've made lots of jumps with equipment of various sorts and carrying, or attempting to carry, objects in freefall. Can someone clarify or speculate "how" he actually tied the money to himself? In my opinion, it is NOT a trivial issue to improvise a secure method for doing this. What tools/equipment did he use? Cutting nylon cloth and suspension line is not an easy task with good scissors or a sharp-edged tool. In the galley of the aircraft, or on the floor, is not an easy place to wrap the money securely and then secure the package to his body. What was the package like and how was it secured to his body? He knew that the aft door could be opened in flight--HALO jumps were being made by Special Forces from 727s at that time--so that's pretty easy to accomplish. What I can't visualize is how he exited. Any non-symmetrical body position--such as he'd have if he tried to hold the package as he pulled the ripcord--is going to exacerbate the turbulence and burbles which would tug at the package. In my advert I used the words "...holding the attache case in freefall" I wrote that ad ten minutes after hearing a news broadcast about the hijacking. The news blurb that I heard mentioned that he jumped with the money in an attache case. Now, I find that he left his attache case and the fake bomb on the plane but with the money tied to his body somehow. Bottom line: I think that--if he lived--he lost the package from the aerodynamic forces that tugged at the totally improvised tie-job. Even an experienced jumper would have difficulty staying stable while contending with forces on the precious payload package. I'd guess the money was ripped from his body...and he was left with nothing but a cool story to tell. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

And I am way, way over 40. Oh, and I'm still not DB Cooper. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

I'm not sure about that one. He didn't work there when I knew him. ... As long as I had known "Herd Fang" I never realized that he worked for Para-Flight either. So I thought I'd check into it.... I called a friend who had worked at Para-Flight for quite a long time; who was an instructor at Ripcord, where Fang had jumped; and who was an AFF instructor at X-keys when Fang flew there. My friend TC really got a good laugh when my question brought back thoughts of Fang. He said, "THAT was one crazy mother..." He then told me this Fang story. "Yeah, he worked at Para-Flight for a few years. None of us could understand how he kept from being fired because he was *always* doing crazy shit. You knew Steve pretty well; he was always the very straight, very conservative, all businessman type of guy. Particularly when around the military." For those of you too young to have knowledge of our sport's fascinating history, Steve Snyder is the ram-air canopy inventor and owner of Para-Flight. Steve's license was D-5...and he was also a guy with a pretty good sense of humor...if you got him at the right time. Because of the rapid business growth of Para-Flight during wartime, the company expanded during Viet-Nam. The company expanded, literally upward, by building a second floor for final assembly and testing of new rigs. Completed and tested rigs from the second floor were then sent down an aluminum chute to the shipping department on the first floor. Para-Flight had many types of military contracts for all sorts of steerable delivery systems. During the time period in question, they were improving on a delivery system which allowed a payload to be kicked out of a cargo plane, very high and very far, from the intended LZ; and then guided to the desired land point--most often within a Special Forces encampment--by the forces on the ground receiving the resupply. As TC told the story...One day a group civilian engineers, in suits, and Naval officers in uniform who were visiting Para-Flight to get an update on various developments. Steve Snyder and company chief test jumper, Dick Morgan, were giving the suits and officers a full tour. As it turned out, the entourage of very straight guests ended up near the exit ramp of the chute from the second floor. Every so often a completed rig, packed in a plastic bag, with owners manual and packing data-- and all dressed up for shipping-- would slid down the chute as Steve talked with the group of suits and Navy guys. After the second or third completed rig slid down the chute, Fang, who was working on the second floor, sat on a rig, straddling like a horse and rode it down the chute totally and completely, bare-assed naked. He got to the bottom, looked at Snyder and then at the Navy guys and said, "Ooops, I'm sorry Steve, I didn't realize we had company. I'll go put on some clothes." Anyone who ever met "Herd Fang" will realize this is not a made-up. Somewhere in my stash of stuff I have a T-shirt from a X-Keys "Fang Boogie" which was started to raise money for his kids after his death. Fang was ballsy, funny and a totally wild and unconventional guy. RIP, guy. ------------------------------- While looking for the correct spelling of "Para-Flight" on the Net, I found the website of another jumper who I *always* loved to see when I went to a Herd Boogie and that's Scotty Carbone. I've lost personal touch with Scotty since the demise of the Herd Boogies but I bet lots of folks here on DZ.com know him. See Scotty's website here: http://www.carbonezone.com/about_him.html My research found a Herd newsletter. See it here: http://www.freefalladventures.com/upc/dzdirt/DZ-Dirt-VIII-1.html Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

But you really haven't experienced funny unless you had the pleasure of Fang, Soss and DD together. I would drive 3 hours just to experience them at a Herd Boogie. Those were the days. Dang...this olde farts SH&T section of DZ.com makes me think backwards. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Harvey was my student and one of my best friends for 30+ years. Soss was someone you could never forget. You may find this interesting: http://www.aicommand.com/SossAtAngelFalls.htm Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

You bet!! It's all about attitude and perspective. Class 6-60, Ft. Bragg, NC Headquarters, 82nd Airborne Division Artillery, First sport jump: June, 1960. AIRBORNE! All the way! Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Despite my feeble attempts at humor in regard to the DB Cooper mystery with my sig line, I want to thank NickDG, Ckret, Safecrack, Orange and the others who have popped up recently to add input to this mystery. I've been following the DB mystery since a few hours after his jump when I heard a radio newsflash. I'm fascinated and pretty much a DB-data junkie. The depth of research and thought you folks are bringing to the whole issue is refreshing and much appreciated. The level of "professionalism" and lack of personal attacks in the posts are also appreciated. Thanks...and keep of the wonderful work! Oh, by the way, I am still not DB Cooper. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Me? Nothing other than "I am not D. B. Cooper" Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

And I am not D. B. Cooper. And I am not D. B. Cooper. And I am not D. B. Cooper. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

This pretty much sums it up. WTF would I care...if I didn't believe that I was? Thanks to everyone for their replies. I never expected so many. The older I get the more I miss the jumper's free spirit and their acceptance of others that seems to go with skydiving. No one really gives a shit who you are or how much money you make when on the DZ...it's all about who you are in the air. DZ.com is my life-line to the Insanity of Freedom that jumping has always meant for me. Thanks...!! Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

I just took a look at the last few pages of the "Most Famous Skydiver" thread and the comments about what makes a person a skydiver and it got me to thinking... Although I haven't jumped in a bit over 20 years, I had a J/M and I rating since 1971. I was a DZO for five years. Am I a skydiver? I note that many of the olde farts here in the "SH&T" forum have in excess of 35+ "In sport" years. My guess is that many are like me who found other things to occupy their lives...and weekends...but still consider themselves as skydivers. It almost makes me cry with nostalgia to drive by Cross Keys and see the canopies. Or even to hear the whine of a Cessna 182 simply flying overhead on a nice jump day. It amazes me what memories rush forward simply hearing a Beech or a DC-3. [I don't hear enough of them!] My younger daughter is 14 and can't wait to jump. Cross Keys said she has to wait until she's 18. I know I'll be jumping with her then... But I am still a skydiver? PS: Nothing you can write will convince me I'm not a skydiver but I'm curious about your opinions. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

I made my first sport jump in June of '60 with the XVIII Abn SPC at Bragg. At the time the Army team [not called the Golden Knights then, as I recall] was jumping 7-TU rigs so we weren't allowed to jump anything that hot. We were stuck with single T and maybe 5-LL if the J/M thought a guy could handle anything that steaming hot. My heart really pounded on my first 7-TU jump! Pretty funny now, in retrospect. Yes...times have certainly changed! Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Wonderful! That's priceless. Thanks for the laugh. Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

I second the "good dredge"! I never saw that before. Funny. Dave DeWolf's laugh and his machine-gun staccato style of speaking was always a thrill to decipher when he told jokes or stories. I was on 10 second delays at the same time as Dave. He's since passed me in numbers--by about 10,000 jumps. A Herd Boogie was something to behold. I attended for years. To me, it exemplified all the great things about jumping: fun people, crazy people, wonderful people and nusto night-time craziness. [Thanks Soss! RIP] I don't know where you find some of the stuff you post, Howard, but Thanks! Do you have any of a Herd wet T-shirt contest? Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Here's a tribute to him and my favorite picture of Soss: http://www.aicommand.com/SossAtAngelFalls.htm Guru312 I am not DB Cooper

Two of my ex-girlfriends gained a new T-shirt from the Herd. Stan Zelnick talked one of them into being video taped while "earning" the shirt. Stan said that because three club members weren't present for the 'unveiling' he had to prove it to them with a video. Although the T-shirt ceremony was often hilarious and the wet T contest always a joy, what always impressed me the most about Herd Boogies was the mutual respect everyone had for each other's gear and personal belongings. I attended and flew at many boogies and remember the vans, trucks, campers, cars and motorcycles all open with jump gear, personal stuff and more than a little unmentionable 'stuff' often out in the open and unhidden. I'm sure that gear and personal clothing was stolen at some time over the years, but I never personally experienced nor heard of theft at a Herd Boogie. If the none jumping community and the world could absorb some of our mutual respect for each other's gear and belief systems, we'd have a whole lot better planet. Those were the days! Guru312 I am not DB Cooper