Douva

I couldn't agree with you more, but I'm not sure to whom exactly you're responding. The last time I checked, nobody in this thread was supporting "trying to legislate anything we humans chose to do." Perhaps you're responding to the same internal demons with which DSE seems to be struggling. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

No more so than a welder wearing a t-shirt, or a fireman working without his protective gear. Leather gear will survive considerably more asphalt than your hide will. Wow...that's all I can say...Motorcyclists that ride for fun without helmets or leather gear are "careless...." and they're responsible for people not being able to pay for their insurance, and they're comparable to people in the workplace not wearing protective gear for dangerous working environments. It's all about how you approach the sport. Riding without a motorcycle license doesn't make you any less safe than a skydiver with 5000 jumps not having a D license. It does make him legal, just like you must have a USPA license to skydive at many DZ's. It's about the attitude. If you ride fast, pop wheelies, and engage in less than cautious behavior on the bike, whether it's motorized or not, you ought to be wearing protective gear. If you're a cautious, conservative rider, protective gear isn't nearly as important. Given that 95% of my riding for example, is on desert highways, not local streets or busy freeways, my risk is exceptionally low by comparison to others that live in those areas. It's simply ridiculous to blanket comment that "riding with jeans and a Tshirt is careless." Either way, it appears neither of you are riders so your comments are basically the same as a wuffo commenting on skydiving. I guess I grew up in a different age. My mom doesn't cut my sandwiches for me any longer either. Fortunately, my state and other states in the West still allow us to be adults and choose what protective gear we wear. First of all, I am a rider. If you'd read my first post a little more closely, rather than selectively zeroing in on the stuff at which you thought you could take offense, you'd have seen where I said I've been riding for twelve years. Secondly, just for the record, I never said riding in a T-shirt and jeans is careless; I said riding in a T-shirt and SHORTS is careless. Again, if you would slow down in your rush to be offended, you might see what people actually write. Finally, I sometimes ride without a leather jacket in the heat of the summer, and I do occasionally ride without a helmet when I'm just making a short run to the store, and I've even been known to cruise around the block in a pair of shorts, on very rare occasions, but I accept when I do those things that I'm being a little bit careless, and I accept the risk, rather than deny it. Similarly, when I skydive without a helmet for a photo opportunity, I know I'm being a little careless, but I accept the risk. Rather than trying to impugn our credibility, knock that chip off your shoulder, and look at what we're actually saying. Nobody in this thread, as far as I can recall, has said anything about helmet laws. The mere fact that you brought helmet laws into this discussion simply shows your own hang ups. Personally, I oppose any attempt to legislate personal responsibility, but I oppose such legislation in a rational, mature manner. I don't compare people to whuffos and use incoherent metaphors about my mom cutting the crust off my sandwiches. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

After struggling to keep skysurfing alive last year, it looked like this year there might not be a single skysurfing team at Nationals. Of the four skysurfers who competed the last two years, Rob of Crazy Lemur is deployed with a Marine unit, Tanya of Firestarter has re-retired, I retired to focus on my career, and Lawrence of Skysurf Elsinore suffered a serious injury a few months ago. Well, miraculously, Lawrence of Skysurf Elsinore (his DZ.com handle is heltzer) recovered in time to compete. Skysurfing also got some help from overseas, in the form of the Russian men's team who made their way out to Eloy, AZ, to compete as guests. Then, in a surprise move, former X-Games skysurfer Sean MacCormac came out of retirement to help, teaming up with Omar Alhegelan to form a team. And THEN, at the very last minute, after running the show as meet director at the last two Nationals, former X-Games skysurfer and current Western Regional Director Scott Smith decided to help out by competing also. Unfortunately, I wasn't there to witness this, so I'm going to let the email Lawrence sent me tell the rest of the story. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I started to say "T-shirt and shorts," instead of "T-shirt and jeans," but I decided to give your friend more credit than that. If he's riding around in shorts AT ANY SPEED, he's being careless. Yahoos like your friend are the reason it costs something like $2,000 a year to insure a sport bike and the reason I can't buy health insurance that covers me when I ride. Umm...I ride my bike in shorts, jeans, no helmet, sneakers, with sunglasses and my mp3 player virtually every day, and have ridden this way for nearly 30 years. I'm not at all responsible for you not being able to pay for your insurance; I have health insurance that covers me when I ride. I've had two incidents in 30 years; the first I hit a black dog in the middle of the night, I was wearing shorts and no shirt. Neither shorts nor no shirt contributed to the accident, and wearing jeans, shirt, or helmet wouldn't have changed the outcome. Second incident, I was hit by a guy running a red light. I was wearing jeans and a Tshirt, no helmet. Wearing anything else wouldn't have affected the outcome. Both cases offered a broken leg and in the second, a broken elbow and wrist. The people to blame are the morons that buy crotch rockets and ride too fast in their first 3 weeks of owning their bike, and aren't wearing helmets when they crack up. Riders like Ben Roethlisberger are your issue. Just like there are responsible skydivers, there are responsible motorcycle riders. Can I blame the cost of my insurance on hook-turning skydivers that misjudge altitude? Or should we all just quit having fun with our lives and wrap ourselves in bubble wrap? Or maybe we should simply live our lives pointing the finger at everyone else for whatever goes wrong in our world. If it costs you 2000.00 a year to insure a sport bike, either you have your own bad driving record or you have a very bad insurance carrier. My 25K bike costs me less than 500.00 per year, full coverage. My Valkyrie (around 14K) costs less than 300.00 per year, full coverage, and my dirt bike is very inexpensive to cover (liability only), but I have an excellent driving record, even as a "careless" motorcycle rider that has had at least 25 bikes in his lifetime, and laid down 2 of them. But, my mother no longer cuts my sandwiches for me either. There are idiots on 2 wheels and there are idiots under canopy, and just because someone wears jeans on a motorcycle or doesn't have an AAD doesn't make them an idiot. A. You edited my quote to make it appear I said something I didn't. B. I'll respond to the rest of your unwarranted, overly defensive rant when you fix "A." "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." --Hamlet (III, ii, 239) I copied your post verbatim, then removed the line about the person with no license being foolish, because I agreed with you. Not protesting too much at all; I resent the intimation that anyone that wears shorts on a motorcycle 'AT ANY SPEED' is "careless" or responsible for the cost of your insurance. I don't wear sunscreen when I go outdoors; am I to blame for the high cost of health insurance due to the potential for skin cancer? To omit a sentence in a direct quote, particularly when doing so changes the meaning of the quote, is to blatantly misquote somebody. I never said, "anyone who wears shorts on a motorcycle is responsible for the cost of my insurance." For one thing, I don't even own a sport bike, but that's really beside the point. I listed two things JAC's friend does wrong, riding in shorts and a T-shirt and riding without a license. Then, in a separate paragraph, I gave the summation that guys like her friend--guys without a license who ride 150 mph on Houston's Loop 610, doing wheelies and wearing nothing but shorts and a T-shirt, are largely responsible for the high cost of insuring sport bikes (my $2000 estimate was from talking to a few people who drive high end sport bikes, not personal experience) and the inability of many motorcyclists to get health insurance that covers them while riding. The only claim I made about what you do--riding in shorts and a T-shirt--is that it's careless. That's my opinion. I also think riding without a helmet is careless, as is driving a car without a seatbelt. If you disagree, that's your prerogative, but don't misquote me and twist my words to try to defend an activity about which you obviously already have a chip on your shoulder. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I started to say "T-shirt and shorts," instead of "T-shirt and jeans," but I decided to give your friend more credit than that. If he's riding around in shorts AT ANY SPEED, he's being careless. Yahoos like your friend are the reason it costs something like $2,000 a year to insure a sport bike and the reason I can't buy health insurance that covers me when I ride. Umm...I ride my bike in shorts, jeans, no helmet, sneakers, with sunglasses and my mp3 player virtually every day, and have ridden this way for nearly 30 years. I'm not at all responsible for you not being able to pay for your insurance; I have health insurance that covers me when I ride. I've had two incidents in 30 years; the first I hit a black dog in the middle of the night, I was wearing shorts and no shirt. Neither shorts nor no shirt contributed to the accident, and wearing jeans, shirt, or helmet wouldn't have changed the outcome. Second incident, I was hit by a guy running a red light. I was wearing jeans and a Tshirt, no helmet. Wearing anything else wouldn't have affected the outcome. Both cases offered a broken leg and in the second, a broken elbow and wrist. The people to blame are the morons that buy crotch rockets and ride too fast in their first 3 weeks of owning their bike, and aren't wearing helmets when they crack up. Riders like Ben Roethlisberger are your issue. Just like there are responsible skydivers, there are responsible motorcycle riders. Can I blame the cost of my insurance on hook-turning skydivers that misjudge altitude? Or should we all just quit having fun with our lives and wrap ourselves in bubble wrap? Or maybe we should simply live our lives pointing the finger at everyone else for whatever goes wrong in our world. If it costs you 2000.00 a year to insure a sport bike, either you have your own bad driving record or you have a very bad insurance carrier. My 25K bike costs me less than 500.00 per year, full coverage. My Valkyrie (around 14K) costs less than 300.00 per year, full coverage, and my dirt bike is very inexpensive to cover (liability only), but I have an excellent driving record, even as a "careless" motorcycle rider that has had at least 25 bikes in his lifetime, and laid down 2 of them. But, my mother no longer cuts my sandwiches for me either. There are idiots on 2 wheels and there are idiots under canopy, and just because someone wears jeans on a motorcycle or doesn't have an AAD doesn't make them an idiot. A. You edited my quote to make it appear I said something I didn't. B. I'll respond to the rest of your unwarranted, overly defensive rant when you fix "A." "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." --Hamlet (III, ii, 239) I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

He rides in shorts, t-shirt, motorcycle jacket, helmet. Sometimes jeans. Some of his tickets are due to no motorcycle license. He needs to take the safety course, but hasn't yet. I try not to argue the "whether he's a safe driver" aspect with him typically, and instead shift it to other drivers that don't see motorcyclist, which I know occurs more often then not. I've heard too many stories. Hell in the same conversation of his "evening that the lights went out" he said before hand this guy almost ran him off the road because they didn't see him. I started to say "T-shirt and shorts," instead of "T-shirt and jeans," but I decided to give your friend more credit than that. If he's riding around in shorts AT ANY SPEED, he's being careless. If he hasn't even bothered to get his motorcycle license, he's just being foolish. The next time he compares it to skydiving, tell him everything I already told you; then pull out your USPA card and say, "And plus, I'm licensed to do what I do." Yahoos like your friend are the reason it costs something like $2,000 a year to insure a sport bike and the reason I can't buy health insurance that covers me when I ride. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Does this mean I can get my medical insurance to pay for a hooker? I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Maybe because we don't need to be involved for you to reduce your risk of prostate cancer. But it's more fun when you're involved. The way I look at it, the woman and I could be like cancer screening buddies. She helps me avoid prostate cancer at the same time I check her for breast cancer. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Are we talking about no sex or no release of any kind? Ejaculating too frequently or too seldom can have minor short-term physical effects on men, but none of those effects are severe. In the long-term, it's thought that men who ejaculate three to four times a week are at a lower risk of prostate cancer than men who ejaculate less. But I've yet to find a woman willing to accept that as a legitimate reason to have sex with me. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I've been riding motorcycles for twelve years and skydiving for eight. If your friend were riding fast and performing tricks and stunts on tracks or in the desert, while wearing safety gear, I'd say he's participating in a legitimate sport and taking reasonable safety precautions. But if, as I get the impression, he's one of those guys riding down the Interstate in a T-shirt and jeans, doing this stuff when there are other cars on the road, he's an idiot with no right to compare his reckless actions to a regulated, sanctioned sport that requires formal training and safety precautions. The next time he compares what he does to skydiving, tell him that when you're moving at 150 mph, you're at least a half a mile above the ground, and then ask him how close to the ground he is when he's moving at those speeds. Then ask him how long he has to react if something goes wrong and what kind of emergency procedures and safety precautions are in place for such contingencies. I'd be willing to bet you have much better answers to those questions than he does. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Thanks for the heads-up, Travis. I'll be sure to wear an old pair of shoes. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

When teaching a first jump course, I used to always start the class, like many other instructors do, by having each student explain why he or she wanted to learn to skydive. I once had a young man answer, "For the chicks." I replied simply, "Boy, are you in the wrong sport." I never saw him again. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Well, with 29 years in the sport and 4600 jumps under your belt, it's not surprising that you've developed a healthier attitude toward skydiving than those people with 2.9 years and 460 jumps under their belts. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Or, as his friends call him, "Jay Bob." I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Because Jesus has two holidays and the devil only has one, I do my part to try to balance the scales. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Woohoo! Bryan is finally getting healthy! Now you have to help me convince kevlarsxs to quit. Congrats on the smart life decision! I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I love it when people have to point out that they're not scared by horror films. Congratulations, you're mentally capable of separating fact from fiction. Now sit down and shut up. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I disagree that this issue is about basing dating decisions on a sport--It's about basing dating decisions on a lifestyle, more akin to a religion. I find it interesting that most of the people saying they could never date whuffos are the people with less than a thousand jumps and less than five years in the sport. It's typically the people who are relatively new to the sport who maintain an unhealthy obsession with it. It is because skydiving becomes so much more than a sport to so many new skydivers that they feel compelled to make it the deciding factor in complex life decisions, such as whom to date. Personally, it's very unlikely that I would date a skydiver at this point in my life, just like it is very unlikely that I would date a very devout evangelical Christian; though, each seemed like the best choice at different points in my life. That decision has nothing to do with sports; it has everything to do with wanting to distance myself from lifestyles in which I no longer have any interest. I've posted this before, but here is a re-post from my [URL "http://www.thedeadarmadillo.com"]blog[/url], for all of you who are completely consumed by skydiving: [I]Tuesday, February 21, 2006[/I] [B][U]Zen and the Art of Skydiving[/B][/U] My knowledge of philosophy is so embarrassingly limited that the probability of anything I say on the subject being an original thought is immeasurably low. Therefore, in any of my writings, you can assume any philosophical statements I make mirror earlier, greater minds, whether I realized it when I made the statements or not. For the purposes of this Chautauqua, however, I intend to deliberately borrow a handful of ideas from Robert M. Pirsig's cult classic Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I'm also going to borrow his use of the word "Chautauqua." The subject of this Chautauqua will be the self-destruction of the recreational skydiver. In my seven and a half years in the sport of skydiving, I have seen recreational skydivers come and go, but I've seen only a handful "go the distance," so to speak. I believe there is an underlying force at work behind this turnover, beyond the skydivers themselves, the nature of sport, and traditional outside forces (work, school, family, etc). To get to the root of this cycle, we must first examine the average person's motivation for skydiving. Most people have the same motivation for their first jumps--They are looking for excitement. I think it's reasonable to assume that the seeking of excitement indicates a perceived shortage of excitement in their lives. And "perceived shortage of excitement," better known by its nom de plume "boredom," is the real heart of this issue. People are bored with a culture, a society, and a world that never looks beyond earning an education, getting a good job, finding a mate, raising a family, and staying out of trouble. They are never offered any higher objective than this laundry list of chores. If boredom brings them to the drop zone to make their first jumps, what motivates them to spend time and money on training and keep coming back weekend after weekend to become recreational skydivers? I believe this is where skydiving takes on a roll akin to a religion, in the hierarchy of most fledgling skydivers' values. Skydiving appears to offer an alternative to the culture with which they've grown so bored. Much like a religion, skydiving offers an escape from the traditional views of success. It doesn't matter to their fellow skydivers how much money they have or what kind of work they do or what kind of cars they drive. What is important to their fellow skydivers is the common bond of skydiving. Skydiving also offers acceptance without adherence to the status quo. Skydivers do not hold each other to the same standards commonly accepted by the outside world. Among skydivers, nobody expects you to be in college simply because you are nineteen-years-old and everyone knows nineteen-year-olds go to college. Nobody expects you to be married simply because you are forty-years-old and everyone knows forty-year-olds are married. Nobody expects you to behave like a prude simply because you are a corporate executive and everyone knows a good executive never engages in anything that might appear distasteful. Fledgling skydivers encounter an acceptance that supersedes the acceptance found in most major religions because they are never judged on any criteria outside the realm of jumping out of airplanes. Skydiving also gives fledgling skydivers the feeling of being involved in something larger than themselves. Suddenly they have a tangible goal beyond earning an education, getting a good job, finding a mate, raising a family, and staying out of trouble. In a sense, the fledgling skydiver soon finds that skydiving has become his purpose in life. Unfortunately, this newfound purpose eventually fails most recreational skydivers. Skydiving fails in this roll because, contrary to its first impression, it is not an alternative to the world they despise. Most skydivers are faced with a dilemma in that they still rely on the world they left behind to sustain them. Man cannot live by air alone. These same skydivers, no longer fledglings but now covered with bright feathers and able to fly on their own, now find themselves torn between the world of their purpose and the world of their paychecks. This can topple the house of cards in one of two ways--The skydiver can accept that continuing to follow this purpose will eventually ruin him and reluctantly withdraw from skydiving, or he can choose to try to sustain himself on this purpose by becoming a professional skydiver. Either way, the recreational skydiver is gone. And for those who choose the path of professional skydiving, they find it long and hard and nothing like the joyful existence they came to know as fledgling skydivers. If resources are not an issue, these same skydivers soon find that the world of skydiving is not as different as they once imagined. Deep at its heart, skydiving contains everything they hated about the outside world but exponentially magnified in intensity, like a laser beam directed at this tiny subculture. They soon find themselves entwined in soap operatic levels of politics and drama, the likes of which the outside world would never allow. And for many, this is enough to kill the recreational skydiver. At the heart of every failure of this pseudo-religion is its basic philosophic flaw, the reason that even a skydiver who can sustain himself without help from the outside world and endure the living soap opera cannot continue forever on the back of this newfound purpose--Skydiving is not actually an alternative to the outside world; rather, it is freedom from the outside world. And freedom is a "negative" goal--It is a vacuum that must be filled. At its root, the skydiving lifestyle is freedom (often bordering on degeneracy, to borrow from Pirsig's evaluation of the hippie movement) that offers an escape from the "real world" without offering anywhere to escape to. Jumping out of perfectly good airplanes is fun recreation, but it is not an alternative to the world around us. Perhaps more skydivers would "go the distance" if, as fledgling jumpers, they didn't look to skydiving for purpose but instead looked at it as just one more area in which to seek the Quality most people fail to seek in any aspect of their lives. "Quality" is Pirsig's term, but I think it fits. It's the indescribable point at which the romantic and the classic meet, where form meets function. It's a goal above both the pursuit of a laundry list of chores and the pursuit of aesthetic beauty, the point at which these two empty objectives meet to form a whole greater than the sum of its parts. But I digress. If you want to know about Pirsig's philosophy, buy the book. My point is that skydiving fails not because it's something we use to fill a void in our lives but because it's a void we use to replace the things we don't like about our lives. And as any student of high school physics can tell you, a vacuum (aka a void) cannot sustain itself. As goes the void, so goes the purpose, and as goes the purpose, so go so many disenchanted recreational skydivers who thought they'd found something better, only to realize too late that they'd staked all of their hopes and dreams on nothing at all. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

It used to be Vanilla Coke until they stopped making it. Now I like Pepsi Vanilla. On an interesting side note, if you ever get a chance to read the history of New Coke, it's pretty interesting. It was created because Pepsi was outperforming Coke in taste tests. Pepsi is sweeter than Classic Coke, so the Coca-Cola corporation decided to make Coke sweeter to compete. New Coke actually outperformed both Pepsi and Classic Coke in taste tests, but there was a social backlash, partially spurred on by the Pepsi corporation, against the very idea of replacing a classic like Coke. In the end, the Coca-Cola corporation brought back Classic Coke and phased out New Coke, not because Classic Coke tasted better but because they'd pissed off a small, vocal minority by replacing it. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

By the way, you left off the best thriller ever made--the only film to ever come back from a February release and win "Best Picture" and one of only three films to win all top five Oscars--Silence of the Lambs. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I'm the type of man, Lloyd, who likes to know who's buying his drinks. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Cousin Jeff, is that you? Sorry. For a minute I was certain you had to be one of my cousins. I did all of the above and, like you, never wore eye protection. And one time I shot a Texas Giant bottle rocket into the roof of the work shed at my house. Also, I really wanted to be a stuntman, so I did some crazy stuff like taping M-60 firecrackers into my clothes to create homemade squibs and spraying myself with WD40 and lighting myself on fire. I never got hurt from any of these stunts, so I guess I wasn't entirely careless, but mostly I was just lucky. I was definitely more balls than brains back then. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I'm thinking of walking the picket line. Dammit, Brains, stay strong, man. We're holding out for reciprocity. Don't give in! I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Sure, you're happy now because you're still riding the high from the most recent posts, but when you ladies realize that I killed your four-year-old thread and that you won't be getting another fix, you'll be singing a different tune. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I don't object to any guys PMing their pictures directly to Johnnysgirly. That sounds like a fair interim compromise. But, Johnnysgirly, the men first need your written assurance that you won't post any pictures you receive or take any other steps to share the pictures with any non-participating ladies. For the rest of you ladies, the strike continues. Eat your heart out, Sally Field. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.