RonD1120

you have one life to live, don't waste it following mindless drivel. Denial is the number one symptom of the disease. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

What part specifically? Are members allowed to skip the steps that include the word God? Can the higher power be their own free will? Can they choose to drink moderately as part of the 'treatment'? I may have said something you did not say specifically, but I do not believe I accused you of holding any ideas you did not convey or imply. Members can do whatever they want. If they want sobriety like they want oxygen, food and water they will follow the steps because, "The plan works if you work it." Your higher power is God as you understand Him. That can be stated god as you understand him. For an alcoholic, there is no such thing as drinking moderately. One drink is too many and a thousand is not enough. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

You have now crossed the line and are making assumptions about me and accusing me of saying things I did not. Go back and read my posts again. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

you mean DSM5? Has the DSM-V been released? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I am not aware of any such court cases. Can you give me some examples? I saw it on an episode of Penn and Teller's bullshit about 12 step programs. In the episode I saw that the supreme court ruled alcoholism was NOT a disease. here are the cases from a quick google search http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/?p=784 A quick scan of the NC court reference seems to indicate debate is still ongoing. Now the SCOTUS ruling on alcoholism is interesting. Here is a brief description on what the AMA has stated. http://www.hopenetworks.org/addiction/alcohol/Alcoholism.htm That concept is also debated among physicians. However, it is a main requirement in order for treatment programs to receive federal funding as well as third party payments. So for all practical purposes, it is a treatable disease. The DSM-IV classifies it as a Axis I diagnosis. The courts have long held different definitions for human afflictions. For example, there is a legal definition for mental illness in each state that probably will not coincide with the DSM definition. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I am not aware of any such court cases. Can you give me some examples? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Up here there seems to be two types of hairstyles, buzz cuts and ponytails. I could transition from the latter to the former and no one would notice. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

You are correct. However, it became a non-denominational, in fact secular, organization because the purpose is to attain sobriety not to worship. Oh, and for millions of people world wide, it works. I'm sorry, how can anything about it be considered "secular" considering the 12 Steps? If you deny the 12 Steps exists, then maybe, but as long as it exists it's not secular. Over the past several years I have determined that your major intellectual conflicts are derived from a lack of understanding in specific field phraseology. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

The whole concept of salvation through belief offers strength to those who doubt themselves As we know, There's a sucker born every minute. As often as not, the sucker's none the wiser, so, unaware his pocket's just been picked, he enjoys his bliss. When he enjoys his bliss, he feels empowered. When he feels empowered, he goes to Vegas.... Isn't that similar to the service performed by criminal attorneys? But, I guess if you can afford justice it is not the same as having your pocket picked. Disregard Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

You are correct. However, it became a non-denominational, in fact secular, organization because the purpose is to attain sobriety not to worship. Oh, and for millions of people world wide, it works. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Priceless! Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Stephen Groff, MD jumps at Z-hills, pioneered skydiving in Holland, jumped with USN Chuting Stars and conducted bio-medical research on LSD in the 60's, personal friend of Timothy Leary. That is one that I know. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thanks and same to you. If the weather holds my wife and I plan to attend our first PGR mission tomorrow in Murphy NC. I haven't ridden my bike since I brought it up, which was the first of July. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I understand what you mean. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Yes and I am on that path. As such, the intellect is subservient to the spiritual. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Prayer In The Father’s Hearing 08092013 Father, I thank Thee that Thou hast heard Me. — John 11:41 When the Son of God prays, He has only one consciousness, and that consciousness is of His Father. God always hears the prayers of His Son, and if the Son of God is formed in me the Father will always hear my prayers. I have to see that the Son of God is manifested in my mortal flesh. "Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost," i.e., the Bethlehem of the Son of God. Is the Son of God getting His chance in me? Is the direct simplicity of the life of God’s Son being worked out exactly as it was worked out in His historic life? When I come in contact with the occurrences of life as an ordinary human being, is the prayer of God’s Eternal Son to His Father being prayed in me? "In that day ye shall ask in My name. . . ." What day? The day when the Holy Ghost has come to me and made me effectually one with my Lord. Is the Lord Jesus Christ being abundantly satisfied in your life or have you got a spiritual strut on? Never let common sense obtrude and push the Son of God on one side. Common sense is a gift which God gave to human nature; but common sense is not the gift of His Son. Supernatural sense is the gift of His Son; never enthrone common sense. The Son detects the Father; common sense never yet detected the Father and never will. Our ordinary wits never worship God unless they are transfigured by the indwelling Son of God. We have to see that this mortal flesh is kept in perfect subjection to Him and that He works through it moment by moment. Are we living in such human dependence upon Jesus Christ that His life is being manifested moment by moment? ~Oswald Chambers: My Utmost for His Highest Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I guess they never heard of the Christian Medical Association. Sad misguided people. For me, prayer is to attain direction, strength and comfort through God's grace both in the good times and the bad. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thank you for your feedback also. Fortunately for tkhayes, his ego will not allow him to consider respected opinions from knowledgeable investigators or reporters. Way to dangerous. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Yes, but, I think the evidence for such is sadly lacking. That is the main backslide in America today. No one wants to accept responsibility. When the POTUS won't accept personal responsibility why should anyone else? When you are taught that you can make your own rules, rule number one is don't get caught. If you do get caught, rule number two is have a good lawyer. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

noble thought but that cannot be legislated. And the Constitution defines a government, so we WILL have a government, no matter what. people agree and disagree on what the 'line' is on their government on many issues. extremist? probably not, any more than I am. but ideological to an impractical end? I could buy that description of you. i.e. eliminating the EPA simply means we go back to the days of industry dumping PCB's into waterways, and you hoping that they will be 'responsible' when they are driven by only money. again, a noble thought, but I want someone monitoring dangerous chemicals in our lives and I am willing to pay for that service (by the government, not another privately contracted for-profit corporation) You do not describe my views or beliefs very well here. Heck, I wonder if you totally read my op but Thanks I am not going to debate what others post here as I asked for it marc I agree with you. Idealistic, yes maybe so but, I believe reaching beyond your grasp is a good thing if morally grounded. Personal responsibility may not be able to be legislated but, it can be taught by moral parents who believe in God and teach their children that in the end you are held accountable. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thanks for the report. I've been working at the food bank all morning and have not read any news. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thanks for the heads up. I hope something worthwhile comes forth. We don't have TV up here in the mountains. I'll rely on you guys and tomorrow's news for feedback. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

And you were probably in junior high in the J. Edgar Hoover/McCarthy era. It wasn't true then, either. Can you imagine what J. Edgar wlould have done with today's technology? I'll wager that BHO would not have ever been considered as a candidate for president. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Just in case anyone is curious, in a clinical sense, alcoholism is a term based on the need to consume not the quantity consumed. In other words, if you have to have one drink after work you could be an alcoholic. To be fair, the term in clinical assessment is usually applied based on problem(s) created by consumption. 1. Have you ever tried to cut down on your drinking? 2. Have you ever become angry when someone questioned you about your drinking? 3. Have you ever felt guilty following a drinking episode? 4. Do you have to have an eye opener drink in the morning? Or another line of assessment questions: 1. Has your use caused you problems with your personal health? 2. Has your use caused a problem with your family relationships? 3. Has your use created employment problems? 4. Has your use created social problems for you? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

***Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges. The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses. "I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers. http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-u-directs-agents-cover-program-used-investigate-091643729.html I remember in junior high school, now called middle school, that America was a free country and the U.S.S.R. was not primarily because we did not spy on our citizens. Oh well! Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.