cobaltdan

it is a 95. all our prototypes are built first as a 95. in this way we can compare apples to apples (at least with regards to area and wingloading). sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

hey hook, i dissagree. some canopies after a hook will stay in an extended dive unil brake input pulls them out. (i generally reffer to these designs as having a negative recovery arc) some canopies will have a natural recovery arc after a hook with no brake input that will effectively pull them out of the dive. (i generally reffer to these designs as having a positive recovery arc) in the case of the later your final angle differs depending on the design of the canopy, ranges from returning to full flight, to a level swoop, to even a slightly climbing swoop. i do not agree with your statement that positive recovery canopies if hooked too high must result in planing out too high then surging foward into the ground. that is simply poor piloting. the canopy will only surge as you described if brakes are used and released. i also do not agree that negative recovery canopies are best for swooping. imo just the opposite. with proper placement of your hook turn a positive canopy is a more efficient swooper because you do not waste any speed or angular momentum stabing the brakes to pull out of your dive. where you come out of your hook (i.e. how much altitude you drop) is easy to govern throughout your hook by performing a carving hook and using counter or co harness stearing. additionally in general a positive canopy will continue to swoop at slower speeds than the negative. what about improper placement of your hook? well if you execute a turn too low, that positive canopy has a much better chance of getting you out of the corner than the negative. sincerely, dan www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

there are times at arco (cliff in northern itally) when the thermals rising up the cliff face are so strong that branches you throw over will rise back up....hehe definately increases wing suit time... i was told by a paraglider pilot friend who lives in northen italy that there is a spot in the dolomites where 2 cliff faces meet creating a sloped V channel to the top. and once a year when the weather system changes (warm air meeting cold air bla, bla...) you get thermals funneling up through this channel which decreases in size as it nears the top, thus increasing the wind speed. creating a natural vertical wind tunnel. he told me on good days you can jump off the cliff and fly in place just looking straight down 1000' (teathered of course)...... sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

i jump a cobalt 95 (loading ~2.1) in a javen rs packed with bridal facing the pin. 22" zp kill line pilot and always deploy in a full track. cobalts are ideal wingsuit canopies, stable, no problem with twists and love being dumped in tracks.... i have an extra javelin tjn and plan to make it my dedicated wingsuit rig (i hate doing up the laces) with a cobalt 120 and possibly an extended bridal. sincerely, dan btw. birdman jari always chose to jump an atair alpha until he received a rich promotional sponsorship from another company. robert (birdman designer) still chooses to jump atair canopies. Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

yes the onyx will fall into the class of the velocity/vx... i am not ready to release it as we have been putting all our effort into our military projects this year. on the competition cobalt (non cord x-braced, 9 cell) competition swoops average 280' - 340'. the airfoil on the onyx is higher lift than the vx and velocity, which means it is slightly slower at equal loadings. i have resisted the urge to design the onyx with a faster airfoil as i think it will just increase the possibility of injury. i.e. the velocity: it is a great design competition canopy, but extremely fast and unforgiving resulting in more deaths than i care to count. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

icarus uses a stepper motor driven hot-knife plotter. we use a co2 laser plotter to cut templates and then trace a hot knife around by hand. tollerence of both methods is equal. but as chuck pointed out finished tollerence is all that counts and i believe most jumpers would be blown away (or scared) at just how very difficult it is to maintain high tollerences through the sewing process. yes match marks must be sewn accurately, but sewing tension accounts for a greater induced error. also remember with each rib sewn, errors become cumulative spanwise. forget about milimeters or fraction of a milimeters, most parachute companies have dificulty keeping a spanwise nose tape or tail tape tollerence within several centimeters !!! the use of a cnc plotter: laser or hot knife type by any parachute company was never to increase tollerence. they do reduce labor when cutting fabric but not enough to justify their cost. i.e. on an elliptical 150 it takes approximately 25 hours to construct, only 4 of those hours are hand template cutting. the reason for their use is to elliminate the time spent manufacturing templates. i.e. the templates for our onyx took me a little over 100 hours to complete. now multiply that by 9 sizes to scale it into and you can see how severly time consuming it is for a company to generate a new canopy design without a cnc plotter. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

there is absolutely no evidence of increased stability in turbulence by the addition of airlocks. airlocks were first devised for use on parachutes more than 30 years ago, and then later paragliders. in the more technically advanced paraglider industry airlocks never made it into commercial production as scientific tests failed to show bennifit. there are many patents worldwide for canopy airlocks in addition to the familiar brian g. design, all basically the same in principal. this is definately a richly debated topic by jumpers, but fact remains that there have been decades of various studies and no proof at all of increased preformance or decreased tendency to collapse in turbulence. (and i'm sure not one independent jumper advocating the bennifits of airlocks has jumped the same design canopy with and without airlocks, in order to perform even the most basic of studies from which to form their opinion). a search on this forum will turn up everybody's point of view. my position: choose to jump an airlock design if you like its flying characteristics, do not fly one because you believe it will save your butt over a non airlocked design in the event of turbulence. do not have a false sence of security. (btw before anyone points a finger calling me biased because i manufacture non-airlocked canopies. know that i have manufactured and tested airlocked cobalts and that 2 airlock patents are held by one of atair's canopy engineers.) sincerely, dan atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

definately give them a try. information on cobalts can be viewed at www.extremefly.com sincerely, dan atair aerodynamics Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

brians table is a hotknife not laser built by white automation, marketed by gyro (paul martin of icarus) in nz. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

the difference you discussed could be due to the number of jumps on the canopy. cobalts are 'broken in' over the first 40-100 jumps, this is where the spectra lines change dimensions and go into >better< trim. so if you jump a canopy with a few hundred jumps vs a brand new one you will notice a suptle diference and probably prefer the older one. i can tell you the difference is definately not due to 'hand construction' and not using a laser cutter. i will put money on the fact that we hold the highest tollerences in the industry. (btw we purchased a laser cutter beginning of this season, pd is the only other parachute co. we know of that owns a laser cutter. precision, icarus, aerodyne, strong, simula, bigair, paraflite, pioneer, etc all use hot knife.) as far as the h-mod at 1.6 i think it will be noticable enough to justify the cost. best bet is to speak with howard and ask for names of some people jumping his mod at that wing loading. querry them and then make a decision. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

>Do you have evidence that a radical manuever puts more than, say, 5G's >on a canopy? -yes, of course. we can measure force on all for risers independently, up to 3000 times per second during an entire skydive. "no thanks i'll take stainless steel over fibers" -i'll take the fiber: significantly stronger, more elastic, compliant, and does not damage your slider gromets. if you are paranoid about abrasion put a bumper on... sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

"fly one size smaller" this statement refers to the competition cobalt. the h-mod does not fly quite as fast. i would say the h-mod would be similar to 1/2 size faster. i have never jumped an h-mod bigger than a 95, but i believe the h-mod on a lightly loaded canopy would be noticable just not as dramatic as on a heavy loaded canopy. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

just noticed that rws posted a tech bullletin on their web site: www.relativeworkshop.com about converting their tandem rigs into big boy student rigs... sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

we just finished posting the video from our tandem cobalt 350, 1000# jumps. for anyone interested please visit: http://www.extremefly.com/aerospace/products/parachutes/tandem.html sincerely, dan atair aerodynamics Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

the following is text from our web site: ------ What's the recommended wing loading on a Cobalt? The Cobalt canopy is an extremely efficient wing. It has the highest measured glide ratio of any skydiving canopy. The extra lift makes for a canopy that flies 'bigger'. To get equal forward speed when comparing to many other canopies you need to load the Cobalt heavier, i.e. 1#/’ on a Sabre should be compared to 1.2#/’ on a cobalt. 1.2-1.4 beginners 1.4-1.6 intermediate 1.6-1.8 high 1.8-2.2 pro 2.2-2.8 extreme max tested landed wingload 3.6# NOTE: due to the efficiency of the Cobalt wing, most experienced jumpers will jump a Cobalt 1-2 sizes smaller than competing canopies. CAUTION: the above are general guidelines of where other Atair canopy owners are loading. It is not our intent to make recommendations to anyone without knowing them and their skills first hand. For a firm recommendation please consult your local Safety and Training Officer or instructor. --------- btw without knowing anything about your flying skill, i would generally recommend against double down sizing. you should demo one size down at a time and even though you are lightly loading keep in mind that because of your light weight you will be on a relatively small canopy. small canopies at light loadings are higher performance than larger canopy at the same loading due to their shorter line lengths and less resistance in turns. sincerely, dan www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

unstow your brakes and put your toggles all the way up. while watching your tail slowly pull your toggles down, as soon as your tail begins to lip under look at how far below your keeper rings your toggles are. this is the begining of your control stroke. you can continue to flare to determine the proper end of your control stroke. you can change the placement of your control stroke to suit your arm length and flying style (adding or shortening your brake lines below the catseye). factory settings can be as short as 4" below your keepers for the start of a control stroke. if your flying style consists of front riser manuevers you should make sure you are not significantly deflecting your tail via the brake lines. the full range of the control stroke will vary depending on the canopy design. some are very short i.e. 12" and others much 'deeper'. hope that helps... sincerely, dan www.extremefly.com Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

it will not be offered as a retrofit because of the work involved in modifying the bottom skin. the H(oward)-Mod which is similar is available as a retrofit from several riggers in the states (i.e. howard adams). i do not have the references on hand but i am sure that chuck blue can point you to the right place. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

i had a conversation last year with tony frost of maranas, about having reserves drop tested. mentioned was that he was a dealer of tempo's and he jump tested every one he sold because there was a very high percentage with built in turns. i am not a big fan of tempo's as i load my reserve 2:1. (tempo's do not have nice flight characteristics at high wingloads). anyway he might be someone knowledgeable to speak with and if you choose to buy a tempo, perhaps he would be a good souce as he screens them.. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

do you need a cutaway rig? what is your application? as far as a belly mount your rig needs to have been built to accept one, i.e. with d rings... sandy at rigging inovations is the only company i know that makes a belly containers for a square reserve. technically i do not believe they meet faa guidelines, but none of the manufacturers who use them care...safety first, technicalities second... anyway give sandy a call, he was very helpful when we were shoping for our cutaway rigs... sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

btw. the 170 cobalt does not have the braced nose. currently only comp cobalt models do in sizes 120 and below and our 350 tandem. it is a goal to offer the comp nose on larger canopies for next year. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

you can practice landing on rears at altitude by doing mock swoops. i have only landed once without using toggles (i could not clear a line over and was low for a cutaway). i was very, very happy i had always practiced this manuever (at altitude) that day. i had to turn 180 to enter the edge of a corn field and came in fast. i let go of my toggles completely (i didn't want to instintualy pull on them). i am loaded 2.2 on my wing and with only rears my swoop was 300'+ and i finished up going much faster than i am used to, skiding, then plf'ing in a tumble for a good 25'. definately practice at altitude so in the event you have to land on rears you will have a reasonable chance of not hurting yourself. be safe. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

spain factory is simsa Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

talonsky, when asking for opinions on canopies it is always bennificial to provide additional information, i.e. which canopies have you jumped and how many jumps on each, what is your exit weight, skill level and goals? sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

all cobalts are manufactured in our european factory and are shiped through our ny office. (there are pictures posted on our web site) imo our manufacturing technique and qc are the best in the industry. we go to many lengths other manufacturers do not ,quite simply to be perfectionists. (i have posted specifics of pur procedures in a previous post.) anyway, tom: morpheus mentioned to me your perceptions of our troll, and btw your defination of "opens like shit" is my defination of perfection. common mixed reactions are because many people were simply taught on different equipment. times change, technology improves.... must run. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)

all my personal canopies and many of our demo's are white. if you keep them out of the sunlight they will still look good after 800-1000 jumps. bigest thing i have noticed is certain desert dzs i.e. in az turn white canopies brown from the ground dirt. sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military)