slug

Sorrry but I think your right about Iraq same same as VN except iraq shares borders with other countries that don't like us and have a decent infrastructure. Iran, syria etc. Big hornets nest or "domino's" (humor) R.I.P.

Just like here in the states under base closure a lot of bases have closed, Like the Air base at Rantoul the town can gtt some some nice facilities that can be adapted for other uses. Like the WFFC, industrial park, golf course, etc Don't know the condition of the army facilities in Germany The futre of the towns in Germany will depend on their ability to attract new businesses. to use the army real estate. The bar owners and working ladies otoh will have to go where the customers are. R.i.P.

No shit - I was one of those kids. My parents nor I had the resources to send me to college or trade school. And the economy in the early 80's SUCKED. It was the best opportunity I had to make myself a better person and citizen. You'd rather I have gone on welfare? And as far as I know, the majority of the persons who enlist do NOT do so out of "economic desperation". (FWIW, thanks to the experience and education I received in the military, I earn a very decent living now.) IMO the pentagon learned fron VN that the public woudn't put up with another draft. Either one the lottery or age based with deferements The pay sucks, the working conditions suck, and most of what I hear is how the general population is anything but safe and happy. But it was the most rewarding job I ever had, and I don't regret a single minute of it. Both came from the Vietnam era. Along with this - "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, that we are now fully qualified to anything with nothing." VN was a little different than now (or maybe the same if the majority of people sign up for economic/educational reasons) During Nam a lot of peope enlisted in the different branchs because they knew they were going to get drafted. So some of us in the service weren't drafted just draft dodgers(Pre lottery draft) And I'd also like to know what the "clone" comment is supposed to mean. Damn can't slip nothing past you guy's, I made the comment so I get to define what it means In SC people throw around political labels leftie, rightie, neo cons, liberal, etc. A tuna clone is a label that I made up for a person that acts like tuna IMO no more a personnal attack than the political labels. Need to read between the lines dudes. SC needs some humor. Think outside the box

SC is funny as hell

I thought so too. That's why I am quitting. FUCKITOL! Life is good Iraq R.I.P.

The USAF don't count "The force, made up mainly of reservists and Air National Guard airmen, will return home and could face redeployment in a less cushy location - possibly Iraq, " That was some good duty. Bet those guy's were very low key and were real sorry to leave. France? Iraq? France Iraq. The USAF isn't dumb. France it was

Please don't try and confuse the issue with the facts. We're to busy/having to much fun argueing. Ok I'll go back and read the link hope it doesn't use big words R.I.P.

Is a locked thread a good example to follow? This thread han't been locked. Maybe and thats final The thread was locked by Quade. I started it in a attempt to give someone the oppurtunity to move all the off topic stuff in this thread to another one. This topic of this thread was US troops using scrap medal for armor it hasn't been locked offically but it's no longer the topic of this thread. IOW it's been unoffically locked by smothering it with off topic stuff. Check out the tittle of the locked thread and the majority of the posts in this thread. Quades the man, so don't mind me do your thing in this off topic thread. Or is the majority of the stuff you've been discusssing on topic? As you were R.i.P.

You're welcome to your opinion. Everybody has one. Affirmative same to you Ron got a lost of BS about his medical condition which IMO was IMO uncalled for so I'm going there. None of our business. New Fed law. R.I.P.

I'll finish your thought since you can't remember. The answer to your question would be the 60+ million people that voted for him this past your election, sending your man home. Uh Tuna Negative the 60+ million people didn't vote for "him" aka Rummsfeld in the past election they voted for Bush. Did those same 60+ million vote for the almost new Head of homeland security. Don't even go there with the Nanny stuff. I don't have any idea of how many of the 60+ million were surprised that GW "asked rummy to stay on" but some of the congree people that supported GW in the election don't seem to approve of Rummy staying in his position and aren't afraid to say it. Buzzards circling a wounded animal? R.I.P.

Hi Guy's and gals it took a long time to speed read thru all this stuff but i stuck with it and will admit that I don't understand any of it. Except

Sorry. In a representative democracy, or, in our case, a republic, citizens have a reponsibility to stand up and put the government in its place when it is wrong. We are, after all, its boss. If we have to suffer the consequences of it's actions, we have no one to blame but ourselves. "If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the government to the utmost." --Aristotle "There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust." --Demosthenes "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." --George Orwell "As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality." --George Washington "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." --Hermann Goering "In true democracy every man and women is taught to think for himself or herself." --Mohandas Gandhi "The spirit of democracy cannot be established in the midst of terrorism, whether governmental or popular." --Gandhi "An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." --Plato "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government." -- Thomas Jefferson "So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." --Voltaire "Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." --George Washington affirmative Of course

Because that's the system and they signed up of their own free will. Yeah, they can bitch about it, but don't act like they didn't know how it worked.Quote Negative You say "Because that's the system and they signed up of their own free will that's the system" Where does the contract they signed say "the soldiers and their families have make all the sacrifes and the politicans are going to make military decisions" BTW the wrong ones look where we're at. you no not what you speak. But you have the right to say anything you want to.

Ron, tunaplanet... Rumsfeld

Affirmative SOP for SC. R.I.P.

Politic's again All libs against the DP, Bush, Tax cut's, military spending, war etc etc. Is a lib resticted to all or none? country right or wrong love it or leave it R.I.P.

Army is a four letter word It's a enlisted persons right to complain IMO they got a legit complaint. Why do the soldiers and their families have make all the sacrifes if the politicans are going to make military decisions and make it into a FUBAR that we're going to lose.(except for the spin) R.i.P.

IMO It's About VN war and the ho chi min trail,(laos) how the USAF tried to stop the flow of supplies to the south and other reasons why the US lost the war in VN. Also some insight on the motivation of the NV to fight agains the US at all cost. R.I.P.

Affirmative R.I.P.

http://www.talkingproud.us/ 41 R.I.P.

Hi Quade Dude lighten up it's called sarcasmen. This is speakers corner watch the thread develope and see where it leads If you think it's a violation of forum rules, You know the routine lock it.

Sorry no clicky As you were 41 R.i.P. Briton Details U.S. Abuse at Guantanamo 2 hours ago By JOCELYN GECKER, Associated Press Writer Briton Jamal al-Harith, a former inmate at Guantanamo Bay, gestures ...More... PARIS - A Briton released from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay told Europe's top human rights body Friday he was beaten, shackled, kept in a cramped cage and fed rotten food as part of "systematic abuse" in American custody. Jamal al-Harith's testimony before a Council of Europe panel came as part of an inquiry by the body into human rights abuses at the U.S. detention facility to be made public in a report due out early next year. Reading from a 10-page statement, al-Harith described his two-year detention at Guantanamo Bay as a period of continual mistreatment that ranged from humiliation and 15-hour interrogations to physical abuse that he says left scars. At one point, al-Harith said he refused to take an unidentified injection and was chained up and attacked by five men wearing helmets, body armor and shields. "They jumped on my legs and back and they kicked and punched me," said the 37-year-old Web site designer and father of three from Manchester, England. "Then I was put in isolation for a month." Al-Harith said he was kept mostly in a wire cage and given food marked "10 to 12 years beyond their usable date" as well as "black and rotten" fruit. Sometimes, unmuzzled dogs were brought to the cage and encouraged to bark, he said. Detained in Afghanistan in October 2001, al-Harith maintains he had traveled to the region to attend a religious retreat in Pakistan. He and three other Britons were released in March and have filed a lawsuit in a U.S. court seeking $10 million each in damages. Never charged, they maintain they were innocents caught up in the American war on terrorism. They were denied access to lawyers, as are most prisoners in Guantanamo. When al-Harith and the others filed their lawsuits in October, the Pentagon denied the abuse allegations and said the men were properly held in Guantanamo after being captured in Afghanistan and having fought for al-Qaida. "The U.S. policy is to treat all detainees and to conduct interrogations, wherever they may occur, is in a manner consistent with all U.S. legal obligations," Maj. Michael Shavers, a Pentagon spokesman, said at the time. Robert Lizar, al-Harith's lawyer, urged the panel to use strong language in its report and to condemn U.S. behavior at Guantanamo that he called "totally shocking and unacceptable from international norms." "The actions are closer to those of kidnappers and bandits than to those of a state with a strong tradition of liberty and due process," Lizar said. Al-Harith said that during long interrogations, he was given no choice but to urinate on the floor and repeatedly threatened or asked to confess to crimes he had not committed in exchange for a payoff. Interrogators threatened to seize his family's home unless he admitted to having gone to Pakistan to buy drugs or to become involved with terrorism, al-Harith said. "On another occasion, the interrogators promised me money, a car, a house, a job if I admitted those things," he said. "I refused." During questioning, al-Harith said he was placed in shackles that prevented him from standing upright and that cut into his flesh, leaving scars on his wrists and ankles. Similar abuses are detailed in a memo obtained exclusively by The Associated Press this month that suggests the Defense Department has done nothing about FBI complaints of "highly aggressive" interrogations reported as early as 2002. The memo quotes a Marine telling an FBI observer that some interrogations led to prisoners "curling into a fetal position on the floor and crying in pain," according to the letter dated July 14, 2004. Kevin McNamara, who presided over Friday's hearing for the council, said the global fight against terrorism should not be used as an excuse to violate basic human rights, the right to a fair trial and the rule of law. "Hundreds of what must be presumed to be innocent people remain in indeterminate detention in Guantanamo Bay," he said. "By all accounts, the abuse continues." McNamara said the council plans to publish its report on the subject in the early months of 2005.

IMO Jerry will always be The King

Way off topic dudes see locked thred below about theory vs real world. As you were R.I.P.

affirmative Porter cable Dewalt Delta Kreg Jet Freud WW2 Great follow up service even replace parts and make repairs after warrenty has expired for free.