GeorgiaDon

Thank you for that. It's beautiful. And a wonderful New Year (the whole year, not just the day) to all. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

He's made it clear that he would abolish the EPA and return environmental protections to the sort of thing we had in the 1800's, based on property rights. http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/10/16/paul/ That is to say: 1) You determine that you (or your property) is being contaminated with toxic pollutants. This requires that you constantly pay for testing of the air/water. Or you develop some illness related to exposure to pollutants. 2) You attempt to determine the source of the contamination. 3) You take the allegedly offending party to court and attempt to get some redress for the damage you (or your property) have suffered. Of course, by that point the damage has already been done, and it might not be possible to undo it. How much money would compensate for a terminal disease, or kids with life-altering birth defects, or even just your property so contaminated you can't use it in the way you intended? Does anyone believe an individual would be able to prevail against a wealthy corporation with an army of lawyers? Or that any compensation would arrive in time to do any good? Or that the court system would even be able to handle the case load on top of all that it already has to deal with? That approach didn't work, which is why the EPA was created in the first place. I gather that, in a similar vein, Ron Paul would do away with the FDA, the CDC, and NIH. He doesn't specifically state that (or contradict it) on his web site, but that is consistent with his stance on the EPA, Homeland Security, etc, and it is the stated policy of the Libertarian groups he seems to be close to. In the case of the FDA the argument is the same as the EPA, if you are harmed by a drug, and you can 1) prove that specific drug did the harm, and 2) find the manufacturer (assuming they have corporate offices in the US and not the Bahamas or something), you can try to take them to court. Good luck with that. I think it is also his policy to sell off all federal lands, including national parks. (There is an oblique reference to this in this interview: http://www.lewrockwell.com/casey/casey12.html). Enjoy hiking/camping in national parks, national forests, or on BLM land? Better do it now, before its given away to corporate interests and people with the $$ to buy it up. After that it'll just be fences or sky-high fees to go anywhere. And no, he can't personally do these things overnight. But he can veto any spending bills that include funding for any departments or agencies he doesn't like. He isn't called "Dr No" for nothing. Shut down the government? I don't think that would be much of a deterrent for him. It's what he's all about. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

There will be a segment on wingsuits/landing w/o a parachute on ABC evening news in a few minutes (now 7:11 PM). Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

In other threads on this topic you have claimed that published research by climatologists can't be trusted because they have a financial interest (through research grants) in promoting the hypothesis of human-caused global warming. In the interests of full disclosure, would you care to enlighten us about your relationship to Alliant Energy? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I bet that works better than those fake leather ammo vests. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how those of you who find Mr. Horn's behavior so laudable would feel about Farmer McNasty taking his shotgun to the next skydiver who lands out on his property. After all, 1) they are trespassing, 2) what could be more scary than someone in a clown suit who suddenly appears out of nowhere?, and 3) that backpack they're wearing obviously could conceal who-knows-what weapons, and/or is obviously meant to carry away all they loot they're about to steal. Who could blame him for being scared? He was just defending his property. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I assume you are aware that both the examples you cite of your model for how science should be funded are nonsense? Jimbo Wales is not a scientist; even if you credit him with generating the idea for Wikipedia (and there is reason to believe that much of the concept came from Larry Sanger) he didn't write the code, he (actually, his employees) used code others had written. He did put together the funding for the project, from a soft-core porn company he had founded. Contributions to science? Nada. Although Einstein's contributions to science are beyond dispute, you are aware he was a THEORETICAL PHYSICIST? Einstein's total expeditures on actual experimental science? $0.00 I don't know what field you chose to do your PhD in, but in my field I do not know anybody who gets any money from "defense-related" sources. And I have never had NIH tell me where to publish, or that I could not publish my work, and I don't know anybody who has had that experience. One last point, you can't learn how to do experimental science just by reading about it, any more than reading a book will make you a proficient skydiver. If experimental research was to be done only in the very few labs that would exist under your "independently wealthy self-funded" model, there would be no places students could go to learn how to set up a properly controlled experiment or use state-of-the-art techniques. Private industry has no interest in training students, it would waste too much time and money. Without a supply of trained researchers, innovation would pretty much cease, certainly in the biomedical fields, and those industries would relocate to countries that do see the value in investing in scientific education. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Just a suggestion here. If working the muscles needed to hold an arch is part of your training regimen, you could try doing some of that in a swimming pool. The water will support most of your weight, it feels closer to being in the air than anything else I've found except, of course, the tunnel. It will help to have someone help support you to keep your head up so you can breath, or maybe you could use a snorkel. When you practice the movements for turns your helper can actually turn you in the water, which will help you to visualize the action/response. It's vastly less expensive than the tunnel. When you feel you can hold the arch and make the movements for turns you can use the tunnel to verify your progress before taking to the sky. Best of luck! Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

This sort of offhand bullshit insult reveals nothing more than your ignorance of what it takes to do scientific research. In my own field (molecular biology/immunology) reagents alone can easily run $2,000+ for a single experiment. How do you propose researchers do anything without a source of funding to pay for it? _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

A search on PubMed did not show any relevent publications from "Weldon P". As PubMed includes virtually every peer-reviewed medical journal I'd say its almost certain that this research has not been published. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Please, do tell. And thats great news that Woody is recovering so quickly. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Please, do tell. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

So you're saying the US does have a national identity document? What would that be, I don't think I've ever seen one. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Mostly on the butt, just below all the Big Macs. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Yeah, like I said it applies to lots of things. Boston definitely fits. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

This poem can speak to many things, but I see it as particularly relevent to the continued persistance of religious belief. Blue ones, Don THE CALF-PATH BY SAM WALTER FOSS (1858-1911) One day, through the primeval wood, A calf walked home, as good calves should; But made a trail all bent askew, A crooked trail, as all calves do. Since then three hundred years have fled, And, I infer, the calf is dead. But still he left behind his trail, And thereby hangs my moral tale. The trail was taken up next day By a lone dog that passed that way; And then a wise bellwether sheep Pursued the trail o’er vale and steep, And drew the flock behind him, too, As good bellwethers always do. And from that day, o’er hill and glade, Through those old woods a path was made, And many men wound in and out, And dodged and turned and bent about, And uttered words of righteous wrath Because ’twas such a crooked path; But still they followed — do not laugh — The first migrations of that calf, And through this winding wood-way stalked Because he wobbled when he walked. This forest path became a lane, That bent, and turned, and turned again. This crooked lane became a road, Where many a poor horse with his load Toiled on beneath the burning sun, And traveled some three miles in one. And thus a century and a half They trod the footsteps of that calf. The years passed on in swiftness fleet. The road became a village street, And this, before men were aware, A city’s crowded thoroughfare, And soon the central street was this Of a renowned metropolis; And men two centuries and a half Trod in the footsteps of that calf. Each day a hundred thousand rout Followed that zigzag calf about, And o’er his crooked journey went The traffic of a continent. A hundred thousand men were led By one calf near three centuries dead. They follow still his crooked way, And lose one hundred years a day, For thus such reverence is lent To well-established precedent. A moral lesson this might teach Were I ordained and called to preach; For men are prone to go it blind Along the calf-paths of the mind, And work away from sun to sun To do what other men have done. They follow in the beaten track, And out and in, and forth and back, And still their devious course pursue, To keep the path that others do. They keep the path a sacred groove, Along which all their lives they move; But how the wise old wood-gods laugh, Who saw the first primeval calf! Ah, many things this tale might teach — But I am not ordained to preach. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Is that the Master Radio from Veggie Tales? The one with the talking toaster and desk lamp following it around? _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

According to CNN the guy has had a green card since 1992. If he is (was) 23, then he's been here since he was 8. Many legal immigrants are here on a H or J visa for years before they qualify for a green card, so he could have been significantly younger than 8 when he was brought here. At any rate he clearly grew up in American culture and it's influence can't be dismissed simply by saying he was a Korean national. Which is not to say that the problem in this case is American culture, just that it can't be dismissed out of hand. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I hear this a lot, since I work in this area. Could you offer some concrete, testable suggestions about what could plausably go wrong that would be worse than 1-5 million dead, and 600 million or more severely sick every year? Blue ones, Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Interesting. You do realize that, according to the logic of this article, the Iraqi insurgents are simply following their moral duty as a free people. Negotiation, discussion, politics- that's for pussies. Real men (and women) make their point with a gun. Or a roadside bomb. Or maybe only Americans are allowed to be "moral and free"? Nice world you're advocating. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

A number of people I know who are very religious don't seem to believe in mental illness at all. They just can't accept that conciousness and personality are the product of chemical reactions in an increadibly complex physical structure, the brain. Rather they attribute personality to a mysterious spiritual entity (the "soul") that just happens to be temporarily attached to the body. In this view people can be good or evil, but diseased isn't an option. I get the impression that several posters in this thread have this point of view. Sorry to break it to you folks, but every one of us is capable of doing anything (even murder) if our brain chemistry gets sufficiently out of whack. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I'd be willing to stick my head in a PET machine/pee in a bottle/whatever in exchange for about 100 jump tickets. Research is all about replication you know. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

At some point you have to decide if your priority is property or people. I think many posters have made it all too clear what side of that choice they would come down on. I heard on NPR an interview with the Gretna sheriff, some city council members, and a few local citizens. The sheriff freely admitted that his men had fired over the heads of people on the bridge. Their actions were totally supported by the city council, and by all but one of the Gretna citizens being interviewed. One had a comment along the lines of "it's not Gretna's problem to take out New Orleans' trash". What is this country all about anyway? Is it a society (in the sense of a group of people living in an interdependent way), or is it just a bunch of people who only feel responsible for themselves (fuck everybody else, I'll get mine Jack), who just happen to be living in a particular geographical space? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Can you wear your altimeter too? It'd be cool to know what altitude it shows when the eye passes over. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Does iatrogenic = mistake? Not always. How about: If a doctor doesn't put in this stent to open this blocked blood vessel the patient will die, for sure. If the doctor does put in the stent, there is a 2% chance that the stent will cause a clot and the patient will die. Doctor puts in stent. Patient dies. Did the doctor make a mistake? Do we really want doctors to avoid any and all procedures that have some risk, preferring to be able to say "well we let nature take it's course"? Think of all the unemployed lawyers that would generate! Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)