Geoff

The bulletin on the Icarus site has been changed today (24 October). The small but significant phrase 'on all Crossfires' has been removed, and the date changed to 22 October. same URL http://www.icaruscanopies.com/bulletin2.htm Geoff Crossfire Update 22 October 2001 We are in the process of concluding our testing and will release a service bulletin this week. A minor line-trim change will be implemented and will offer a conclusion to this situation. More detailed information will be released with the impending bulletin this week. Thank you for your patience. etc.....

Did SSK or Airtec test it, and confirm it was OK then?

Icarus have now shown they're way ahead of other manufacturers. Well 3 days ahead at least. Geoff http://www.icaruscanopies.com/bulletin2.htm Crossfire Update 25 October 2001 We are in the process of concluding our testing and will release a service bulletin this week. A minor line-trim change will be implemented on all Crossfire’s and will offer a conclusion to this situation. More detailed information will be released with the impending bulletin this week. Thank you for you patience.

The latest. Geoff http://www.icaruscanopies.com/bulletin2.htm Product Safety Bulletin Crossfire Update 18 October 2001 Our testing is close to completion and we expect to finalize our results (and resolve) rapidly. We had anticipated releasing the final bulletin this week however poor weather has hindered our ability to fully conclude this within our anticipated time frame. We have identified individual and/or combined tolerance issues that create the anomaly with the affected Crossfire’s. As a result, these findings validate the Crossfire design when built within exacting tolerances. This is why the majority of Crossfire’s do not experience any issue. These findings have also highlighted the area of concern and whilst we are confident with the design of the canopy when precisely built, it makes evident the lesser margin for error in the construction of this design. As parachutes are sewn by people we must also assume the potential for human error. As a result we are not comfortable with the bi-product of this particular parachute when sewn incorrectly. These findings are further substantiated by the varying degrees of issues from different manufacturing plants and the reason why a warning was not applied to European built canopies. Furthermore, we must assume that tolerance issues (even if unlikely) are possible from any manufacturing plant and as a result ensure that the bi-product of these issues (should or when they occur) not be an area for concern. The result is that a minor line-trim change will be implemented on all Crossfire’s. The trim change stabilizes those canopies which are affected while maintaining the flight and opening characteristics that Crossfire pilots enjoy. Notwithstanding this modification will stabilize canopies even with considerable tolerance issues, however, when identified these specific canopies will be replaced for reasons of customer service. This will also ensure that all Crossfire’s flying are able to retain a high resale value as a state of the art canopy without concern for imprecise construction. More detailed information will be released with the impending bulletin and conclusion of our testing program shortly. We thank you for you patience.

"Over a period of months, the company developed and implemented various fixes- different trims and different panel shapes..." yeah - I saw that, but I read it as them trying this stuff on experimental canopies (nothing wrong with that). If they were releasing canopies on their customers with a load of different mods (nose or otherwise) then we'd really have some cause for concern. Maybe that isn't what you meant. AFAIK the only person who's claimed that the nose design on production Crossfires has changed on this forum is CobaltDan. A very clever guy, I'm sure, but he is a competitor of Icarus, so I'd prefer to have anything he says confirmed by someone more independent. ... which was why I asked the question. Geoff

1) 2000ft 2) 2000ft 3) a couple of freefly ' big ways' - 5 or 6 people and not enough experience. High speed bodies everywhere. Scary and very unpleasant. 4) Downsizing before I was ready, then turning too low to get back into wind. Hit the ground. bounced. hit it again. lay stunned for a couple of minutes. eventually stood up and walked away with just a bruised body and ego. very lucky. should've taken the cross-wind landing. 5) Canopy Swooping. Scary but the greatest feeling. 6+) never grounded but threatened once. it wasn't me honest! Geoff

Sounds risky to me. In the heat of the moment (when you look down and see you're in the wrong place, and get that 'oh shit' feeling), would you be absolutely sure which way the run-in was, and where you are compared to other groups? Could you be certain you're tracking perdendicular? - there's a real risk that you or other people would track towards the DZ, and converge closer together. On a more general point - Tracking is a very inefficient means of compensating for a bad spot. You're much better off to clear your air and deploy high. Even 500 or 1000 ft higher makes a big difference, especially if you're deep (upwind of the target). The exception to this might be if you're downwind of the target with a very strong wind against you and/or a lightly loaded canopy. Geoff

You sound very certain of this. In contrast, Icarus have said very clearly in the bulletin of 4 Oct: "....there have been no changes made to the canopy’s nose design..... " We'd all be really interested if you have any concrete information. Geoff

There's another update from Icarus about the Crossfire. http://www.icaruscanopies.com/bulletin2.htm Just a clarification of course. Geoff Product Safety Bulletin Clarification of Bulletin #20011004 October 11, 2001 It is apparent that some confusion exists with regard to DZO and/or S&TA approval of Crossfire owners/canopies relating to safety bulletin #20011004 dated 04 October 2001. Icarus Canopies is not asking for DZO’s or S&TA’s to approve canopies for use. As overviewed in the bulletin Icarus Canopies is confident that the majority of Crossfire’s are NOT affected. In addition there is a quantity of canopies which are affected; however, it is not possible to identify the specific canopies by viewing manufacturing files. Icarus Canopies is comfortable in allowing the use of Crossfire’s by owners who are experienced skydivers with a sufficient quantity of jumps on their canopy to have flown their Crossfire in various meteorological conditions and on front risers, and have NOT experienced ANY buffeting or instability with their canopy. Experienced Crossfire pilots who have a quantity of jumps on their canopy to have flown their canopies in all of these conditions (above) will know if their canopy is affected and will have experienced buffeting or instability if their canopy is affected. What Icarus cannot be confident of is the ability of some Crossfire owners to make this educated decision should they NOT possess the necessary ability as a skydiver and/or have NOT flown their canopy in all the conditions as listed above. It is our recommendation to Crossfire owners who DO NOT meet these criteria (either experience level and/or quantity of jumps on their canopy) that they do not jump their canopy pending factory approval of their canopy and/or the pending resolution of this situation by Icarus Canopies. Icarus Canopies does not imply that DZO’s should police, are able to police, or have the authority to police this situation. Further, it is not possible for DZO’s to have sufficient knowledge of all Crossfire users and/or their ability. We are simply requesting vigilance in the interest of safety. USPA advise that S&TA’s are not responsible for governing such actions. As main canopies are not subject to TSO requirements, the user ultimately assumes responsibility. Note: Icarus Canopies are in the final stages of concluding our testing and evaluation and anticipate the release of affirmative action early next week. snip...............

Comparing lines in groups only works if the lines were intended to be the same length originally. This is not the case for many modern canopies. Dunno about the Cobalt. Some manufacturers (certainly Mirage) recommend changing mini risers every 200 jumps. Most jumpers make them last longer, but be VERY careful if you have an RSL. With no RSL, a broken riser will probably result in a reserve ride. With an RSL, you may have a nasty 2-canopy entanglement. Geoff

Change (1): The story has changed a lot since early September when Icarus were still claiming very specifically that the only Crossfire instability problem was on a single batch incorrectly built with their B-lines too long. Change (2): Mike / Aviatr was told his canopy was unaffected. It collapsed on him. He was then told it was affected, and a bunch of new serial numbers were added to the list. You don't see a contradiction in canopies described as 'unaffected' actually requiring a complete reline ? Geoff

Exactly. and Icarus told me that a Crossfire 119 would be the same size as my Safire 129.

By turbulence, I mean turbulent enough that part of the canopy is collapsed or distorted enough to cause a turn. This can certainly happen, and can be very nasty. I don't see how this could happen gently or consistently, though. So yes, it's unlikely that you'll often observe a turn due to this during landing, unless the canopy is bucking, buffeting, or concertina-ing. In which case, you probably shouldn't be jumping anyway. As for different wind speeds on different ends of the canopy. Again, this could be turbulence off trees, buildings or whatever, or even a rotating wind like a dust devil. Again, this would be really nasty, and you probably shouldn't be jumping in such conditions. As someone said previously, the most likely cause is something you're doing without realising - not balanced in the harness, reaching with a hand or foot, or whatever. It could possibly also be a trim problem or your leg straps are not even. Hope this helps, Geoff

It might be, but it isn't. A straight-line steady-speed wind can't affect the direction the canopy is pointing. The canopy can be pushed forwards, backwards, or sideways by the wind, but not turned, unless there's turbulence, or a different wind speed hitting one end of the canopy to the other. Imagine this - you're flying your canopy in a straight line in still air inside a huge closed container. You look out the window of the container (while still flying your canopy) and realise that the container is actually on wheels and is moving sideways at constant speed compared to the way you're flying. Does the steady motion of the container (and hence the body of air you're flying in) cause your canopy to turn? - no. In fact, unless you refer to something outside the container, it's impossible to tell that the air is actually moving at all (this is actually the basis of Relativity theory) Now take the motorised container away, and assume the masss of air is just moving along of it's own accord. In other words, it's just plain windy. Same story. You'll be pushed sideways, sure, but you'll keep the same heading. Geoff

Absolutely true of course. My point is that the bulletin is not clear as to whether European-built Crossfires with Spectra lines are considered safe by Icarus. Geoff

The 'official' position from Icarus is that Safires and Omegas are 7% smaller than other Icarus and PD canopies of the same placarded size. As told to me by Simon Mundell. Geoff

The bulletin is contradictory about whether European canopies are affected. At one point the bulletin states "European Built Crossfire’s are not affected" and later "Any Crossfire’s with Spectra line require a change to Vectran. " - presumably that includes European Crossfires with Spectra lines. Why change the lines if the canopy is not affected? I had a new Crossfire on order. I maintained confidence through the fatality at the Ranch and the first bulletin. But Mike's story followed by the second bulletin was just too much. I've now lost confidence in the product and cancelled my order. Why cancel? I would probably get a fine canopy, but I'd always have this doubt in the back of my mind which would spoil my fun, plus I expect the resale value of Crossfires to go through the floor. I'll re-consider in a few months time, if Icarus can keep their story (a) the same and (b) self-consistent for a while AND we don't get any more horror stories like Mike's. Or I might get a Cobalt. Geoff

And the reserve drill is much simpler with rounds (at least the system that I jumped here in the UK)- just pull the reserve handle. Virtually no chance of low cutaways (unless they have capewells and release them), and no main/reserve entanglement potential due to pulling the handles in the wrong order. Lots of real advantages - I'd still prefer 2 ram-airs though. Geoff

The Performance Variable web site says E1550.75 for a Cobalt 120, but when I emailed them and asked them to confirm the price, they replied DM3518.28 or about E1800. I would guess the difference is the tax. Seems very expensive anyway. Geoff

As for watching the canopy during deployment, I would say that once you are used to the 'feel' of a deploying canopy, you would be better watching out for other canopies, and then look up either if it feels wrong (too slow, spinning, nothing happening, or whatever) or after it's opened and you're ready for a control check. Geoff

Are you trolling for someone to claim that Cypres's make jumpers more complacent? I happen to think that's true, but that that Cypres's are still a huge net benefit to skydivers. Geoff

If you turned, then something about you or the rig made it happen - one toggle lower, uneven weight in harness, leg straps not even, bad trim, or whatever. Not the wind. If you're off the wind line, you'll get pushed sideways, but not turned. Geoff

Cobalts are available in Europe: from http://www.performance-variable.com and http://www.dirtdive.co.uk among others. But I've been quoted silly prices so far - more expensive than for an Icarus Crossfire, which is disapointing. geoff

Any good jumpsuit manufacturer should take that into account - just give them the measurements they ask for (e.g. inseam) and they should add whatever they need to to account for the pull of the legstraps. Geoff

I'm in the UK, and I sold my canopy to a woman in the US. We exchanged a few emails, had a brief chat on the phone, and decided to trust each other. I sent the canopy and she wired the money on the same day. Both arrived as promised a few days later. Foolish? Probably. Would I do it again? Probably not. But I'm glad I did it the once. It helped remind me that there are still some good people out there. Geoff