deadbug

Thats why you make a plan before the dive. 20 way out of an Otter. Only group on the plane. Base funnels, attempt to rebuild not successful, you look around at 7000 and see skydivers seperated both vertically and horizontally. You telling me that your not going to turn 180 and track for all your worth. Theres no way that I can account for all jumpers on the 20 way in this situation. I'm going to get as much seperation as I can.

You guys are all missing the point. I started my first post by saying that the most important thing on any skydive with multiple jumpers is situational awareness. I have also said that what I might do if I find myself in this situation is not what I advocate everyone (ie. low jump # jumpers) do. If I'm on a dive with less experienced skydivers I do talk about what to do if this happens. As far as tracking into another group, read above post, I already addressed that. As far as you knowing where I am at breakoff, when was the last time you were on a 50 way that you knew where every skydiver was during breakoff. You are responsible for the airspace in front and below of you. If I find myself seperated from my group during a skydive, it's my duty to assure that I'm not in a position to cause a potential problem during deployment. Every dive is different, (2-way,4-way,big way,multiple groups from the same A/C, multiple A/C). The proper plan of action varies depending on the situation. This is where situational awareness and having a plan that everyone discusses before hand comes in. The bottom line is that if you don't have the skills to get yourself out of the way, you need to develop those skills before you start jumping with groups of people. If that means doing one on one tracking dives until you learn to flat track on heading, so be it. Doug

I respectfully disagree. I believe that the low jumper needs to stay as close as possible and break-off at the predetermined altitude. That's what I brief people I'm jumping with and I really think it is the safest practice. If I'm in the dive I'd much rather try to keep track of someone who is low and close than someone who is low and far away. The most dangerous situation is when the jumper tries to get back up until about 1,000 ft before break-off and then starts tracking. A good tracker will easily catch up to that person and may very well not see him. And on the subject of clearing airspace, I agree that you are primarily responsibly for the space below and in front of you, so I don't believe in barrel rolls, but I do believe in looking over your shoulder, especialy with a larger group, or a group of people of varying skill levels. This is certainly a tough topic, but it is great to see a civil discussion here. - Dan G I guarantee you that if I find myself low on a skydive for some reason and I decide to track off at 7000 grand that theres no way in hell that you will catch me. I don't care if you know where I am or not. I know I will be clear of the formation at track off. I am not saying this is the right course of action for everyone, but I know it works for me. Doug

Awareness of your environment is the key. If for some reason I find myself so low on a dive with multiple groups and there is no chance of getting back up to the formation, I track away 90 degrees from jump run. This requires that I know what way jump run is and can maintain my situational awareness throughout the dive. 90 degrees assures that I won't track into another group. If your the only group on the dive the 90 degree rule does not apply. Some people may argue that the people left in the formation will not know where you are. I don't agree with that argument. Do you have everyone in constant view during track off? The idea of going low to assure seperation does not provide real seperation, that person that deployed above you might have a mal and have to chop droping right into you. The only way to ASSURE seperation is to have horizontal seperation. Doug

I have been flying my Katana 107 at 2.0 for about 3 years and love it. I think that if you want to get real performance out of this wing it flys best at a wingloading of 1.7-2.0. I have a few jumps on the 97 at 2.2 and I thought the bottom end flare suffered quite a bit. I haven't jumped the Mamba, but did consider it. I just couldn't get my hands on a demo. PD shipped me a demo Katana ASAP, and when they made the decision to go with HMA lines I was all over it. No regrets. Doug

Ya and I'm an airline pilot.

The only time I have been in the tunnel was back in 92 or 93, went to a wind tunnel boogie at the pidgeon forge tunnel and got about an hour. Going to tunnel camp in March with my 4-way team out in Denver. Scheduled for 2.5 hours right now but might pick up more. Doug

I have a bunch of time in a Beaver and I can tell you it's not a Beaver. I am also pretty sure it's not a single engine Otter but I have never flown one just admired them. Doug

That was just poor piloting. One of the mistakes that some jump pilots seem to make is they think they need to fly jumprun as slow as the aircraft can safely fly leaving very little margin for error. There are several problems with this line of thinking. The slower the aircraft is flying the less airflow over the control surfeces and thus the less control he of the A/C. In reality a little extra speed results in a cleaner launch (at least for RW) as the extra airflow results in in more control. You can hear the spotter call for a cut and it sounds like the pilot cuts the A/C almost to idle followed shortly by the stall. Not necessary. You can't have an A/C at idle flight maintaining airspeed and altitude. You can have two of the above but not all three. Depending on the type of load decide which of the three is going to be sacraficed. I typically plan to arrive over the spot 500ft above my target alt then provide a reasonable cut. At that point forget about altitude and just fly your target airspeed. In most aircraft this will result in a very shallow descent rate and everyone should be off the A/C by the target alt. if you need to you can add a little power. On big way exits you can all alittle power after the front floaters are out and blocking the wind. I have not flown an Islander but I don't see a huge crowd by the door that might have caused a aft CG stall. Remember although you should not be flying the A/C out of CG, it sometimes happens in some A/C due to idiot jumpers not following loading instructions. In this case the stall happens because you run out of elevator authority that is sufficient to keep the angle of attack down. The higher your airspeed the greater your control authority, and thus the better chance you have of maintaining your margin above stall. Doug

It is currently owned by the infamous Mike Hayden (AKA Bubba haze) He's a 747-400 captain for NWA. Up until about 9 years he was partners with Dave Mills (also a 400 captain for NWA). They sold the DZ, the Twin Otter and there two 182's about 9 years ago and Hayden bought Mills out of his half of the Beaver. The Beaver still flies at Skydive Twincities, formerly Baldwin Sport Parachute Center in Baldwin Wisconsin about 50 minutes East of Minneapolis. Doug

There is Evil corn around. Some years right up to the edge of our landing area. The local farmer rotates crops between corn, beans and alfalfa so some years it's not too bad. Beans are the real evil plant, they look so innocent and it appears that they are just begging to be swooped, but let me guarantee you'll only drag a toe over the tops once. Doug

Another great Pic of our grass.

Do you mean how do I determine my wing loading? If thats your question, take your exit weight (that's your weight + the weight of anything you might be wearing when you leave the plane ie. rig, skid lid, jumpsuit and shoes, you get the picture), devided by the square footage of your canopy. 200lb exit weight 135 square foot main = wing loading of 1.48.

Skydive Twincities in Baldwin Wisconsin. Acres of smooth grass. Swoop city. Doug

We still jump out of a Beaver at Skydive Twincities. I have quite a few jumps out of it and about 600 hours flying it. In fact I flew it about a month ago. Doug

Yes, I think it was a manta 288 I'd have to check the log book. With about 40 jumps I won a inpromptu accuracy contest on a borrowed XL cloud that I had never jumped. Even a blind squrrel I guess go figure. Doug

As an airline pilot and skydiver, I would say that canopy flight, landing patterns, flairing and canopy accuracy will most likely come easier for you. Understanding your gear, learning to pack, overcoming your fear and anxiety of jumping, freefall and learning the proper response to various "emergencies will be just like any new jumper. As far as preparing for the first jump, I don't think there is much you can do short of tunnel time "which you already said your not interested in". Go through the program and listen to your instructors. If you obsess to much you might do more harm than good. Have fun, Doug Anderson

About $3500

Our dropzone is located about 2 miles south of one of the arrivals to MSP. There is a fix on the arrival called "Twins". The crossing restriction is 11,000ft at Twins. When I used to fly jumpers , and we were running jumprun to the north, we would often be very close to MSP arrival traffic, they would usually see us and we would see them. TCAS RA,s were not uncommon, and I've heard more than one airline crew say they saw the jumpers exit. I still jump at that dropzone, but now I also fly the arrival for NWA. It's fun to point out the jump plane to the rest of the crew.

The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The FAA said the pilot never indicated...the pilot made a turn ~ so it was a medium sized deal, if the TCAS bell rang, he's gotta fill out a report and go see the chief pilot. I don't know what the policy is at your airline, but but were not required to fill out jack or talk to anyone at mine. That dosen't mean we can't fill out a ASAP or NASA report if we want to but were not required to. Anything to get you to watch the evening news or buy a paper.

How does this make the news?? TCAS RA's and TA's happen many times per day, and although I wouldn't say they are no big deal, they are not newsworthy. The only thing of question is the altitude of the jump plane as the previous poster is correct, that is oxy land, keeping in mind that some jump planes are equipped with oxy and they may have been. The ATC requirements for jump planes are that they are in contact with the radar controlling agency in there airspace prior to jumping. Although it is possible for two planes to be in close proximity and not be talking to the same controller (Philly Crosskeys situation), it is most likely that they are. The skies are crowded folks, sometimes we get too close. Doug, Former jump pilot, Current airline captain

I stow the excess with the pin, but I jump a tiny canopy that has very little excess brake line. After I thread the excess through the elastic keepers on the back of the risers, I'm left with a loop about 4" in length. The loop is not big enough to cause the reach through knot malfunction. I don't need to pin that small loop, but I do and it works great for me. Doug

I'm with Dave. I have never had a Prob with my Tru Lock's. I pack as per the manual, and have never had a brake release on deployment or had a prob releasing the toggles. What really scares me is a 12" loop of excess break line flopping around unstowed just looking for something to snag on. DA

There is no place to jump in the BVI, just awsome sailing and diving. Let me guess, you were at Foxy's when you got sliced and diced. Doug

I have owned 2 Vipers, a 135 that I bought new and a 120 that I bought on DZ.com. It is a 9 cell elliptical that was made by Atair for Winchester Technologies and sold in the US by Sky Depot. There made out of Goloviner fabric which is very nice to pack compared to the ZP PD uses. I have nothing but good things to say about them. They are very similar to a Stiletto. In the 6 or 700 jumps I put on them I never had to cut one away. They are the ESSENTIALLY the same wing as the Cobalt, with the Cobalt having some slight modifications. They are one of the nicest opening canopies I have ever jumped, and they have more bottom end flair than any non crossbraced canopy I have ever jumped and that includes my current Katana. I jump a Katana now, but the only reason I switched was that I wanted a canopy that had a longer recovery arc. If you can find one in good shape, and you have the skills to fly it you will love it. Doug