Millstone

" trying to pound your square peg into a round hole just doesn't work. " This is exactly it. These guys have their own agenda. They have big jump numbers and want us to know what marvelous skydivers they are compared to people they don't even know. Mr Von and Mr. Diablo de EGO grande inadvertantly show us all why jump numbers do not mean squat. Arrogance and self importance are potentially just as dangerous as one with low jump numbers. They would like to blame low jump numbers for a poor guy going in in Utah even though they have no indication whatsoever that is true. It is quite possible the guy was a better wingsuit pilot than either one of them. Aging, arrogant guys with 4000 tandem jumps are quite possibly much more dangerous than world class athletes in their prime who live in the real world and know how to take advice from others. Being a world class athlete may not cross over to wing suit flights and highly coordinated stunts, but then again neither do tandem jumps and aff level 1s. Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. Don't believe me? just wait for their response.

"This is a load of crap. Sorry, no other way to put that." Ok, I am not offended, but it begs the question, how many wingsuit jumps do I need before I am allowed to have an opinion? 500? 1000? Debating what the min should be is a far cry from "Abandoning all skill and experience requirements", I never suggested that, so why do you stifle healthy discussion with such hyperbole? "And a tandem is just another skydive." Certainly a tandem is a more complicated skydive, with serious responsibility and consequences. But, since you like your cookie cutter quotes, are you also one of those who say "every tandem passenger is trying to kill you". Because I would call that irresponsible. Such attitudes are self fulfilling and create a dangerous environment. But that's just one opinion. Do I have enough tandems to be allowed an opinion? You're the moderator of a DISCUSSION board, you tell me.

WTF? For those who do not understand, I was referring to being in a flat spin. i.e. one of the worst case scenarios of wingsuit flight.

It seems everyone will agree reasonably set minimum requirements are a useful tool in guiding people through the sport. However, is 500 jumps a reasonable requirement to fly a wingsuit? Reasonable people may disagree. Afterall, it's just a jumpsuit. At any point it is an easy matter to release the wings and return to a normal skydive. Ball up, release the wings if you want to, and deploy. While it deosn't hurt to set a very high standard I think very few skydivers actually need 500 jumps to grasp the basics of wingsuit flight. Those who do must be having a lot of trouble learning to skydive and maybe should NEVER fly a wingsuit. Wingsuits are new and it makes sense for manufacturers to proceed cautiously in their reccomendations. Especially when a large number of very experienced skydivers are very scared and uneducated about the complexity or lack thereof in flying one. There is no reason why anyone with thousands of jumps should be scared to jump a wingsuit but many are. The result is these people strongly urge new jumpers not do it, and cloak their advice as coming from someone with experience. It is clear that manufacturerers and instructors recognize this. This is why the 200 jump in a year reccomendation is put forth. In this way, it gives instructors an avenue for teaching those who do not have 500 jumps, but who we know are perfectly able and competent to jump one. It's my belief, that the majority of skydivers who wish to jump a wingsuit, will be ready to do it safely way before 500 jumps. In terms of athletes, while I agree their is no direct corssover in skills, I do not think I have ever seen a world class athlete start skydiving who was not far ahead of his student counterparts. That is, in my experience, good athletes are ALWAYS better students. All that being said, I will follow the requirements in teaching students. There are far too many people in this sport who would rather play the blame game than actually have to think and evaluate for themselves. My 2 cents.

My opinion is mine alone. And, IMO, my post was not "freakishly negative." I think it is wrong that Tom uses his role as moderator to attack is FJC competitor. Holy conflict of interest! Other than that I think it is arrogant that Tom considers himself the arbiter of who should talk to the media. So I agree with the poster who thinks Tom is being hypocritical. Is there no validity to that opinion whatsoever? Anyway, just one mans opinion. I wouldn't let it ruin your idolatry of Tom. I realize how silly it all is but sometimes I am a hypocrite too. I will not beat this horse any longer.( I promise!) If your questions are anything but rheorical feel free to pm me. BSBD

Tom made a very long post simply to avoid the obvious motivations behind his hypocrisy; his grudge against Miles D. He spews on and on about it whenever he can. The hypocrisy is clear and hardly disputable. His absurd distinctions between his ESPN show and other glory hounds is completely disingenuous. His degradations of Miles D and his students are not supported by fact. His own safety record is much worse. His self righteousness is appalling IMO. Everyone wants recognition for their work. It's only natural. But when others do it its self promotion, and when he does it its for the betterment of mankind. Give me a break.

Dano was nothing if not awe inspiring. Doesn't anybody here remember Bridge Day West in '95? We spent 3 days doing rope, base, and bungee of the Auburn bridge. I often pull out the video. Amazing how many of the people who were there are now gone. RIP Dano.

Agreed.

Of course, you have dropped out of this discussion since stirring the pot. Maybe you banned yourself for a week. Good call.

"Quite honestly, I think that anyone who likes to have their friends get on-line and spray about their numbers ought to be willing to break down those numbers. " It's too bad the Venerable Mr. Aiello doesn't have the balls to apologize for his not so thinly veiled personal attack on Miles. You should keep your petty personal issues to yourself. You're the Moderator for Christ sake. You have no knowledge that Mles has asked anyone to "spray" about him online. Be a man. Apologize and don't make excuses.

Good camera flyer don't you think? Though people here will probably complain about him putting his feet on the TM.

Hi folks, on August 21st Vermont Skydiving Adventures is hosting the 2nd annual Rikki Hustler Memorial Cessna Boogie. We have a minimum of 5 Cessnas for the event. This year we hope to do some flocking dives with the highlight being trans Lake Champlain flights, over the lake from Ny to Vermont. If you haven't been here please know that VSA is a specatular venue located 40 mins south of Burlington on the edge of beautiful Lake Champlain. This is a unique event in honor of our great friend Rikki Hustler. Great vibes, great people. Would love to see some wingman attend this great event. Thank you, Mike M.

Hey Guys! Sorry about the helmet flying off my head. It wont happen again. I cant thank you enough for flying with me though. I am flying my suit a lot more now...and check this...I just ordered a FireBird! Jari says its it performs better than the GTI but is easier to fly than the sky flyer. A good step up for me. I hope to fly with you guys again. Come up to Vermont and I'll buy your next slot! Blue skies, Mike M