akarunway

No, the big picture is not the question, "Why are we there?" The big picture question is not what you did in '78. The big picture isn't a question at all. Chew on these facts and place them in proper context, not the enraged-barely-able-to-type-frenzy: FACT: The world's economy, from China to Japan to France to Brazil to Mexico to the UK to Russia to the US, is on a foundation of energy generated from fossil fuels. The world's main source of the cornerstone of our stability is located in the middle-east. Whether by design, consequence or both, the middle-east is no longer able to play a self-sustaining role in the world. It is being over-run by elements that are appealing to the lowest common denominator of suffering to advance an agenda that bodes ill will for the rest of the world. Is it about oil? Yes. Is it that simple? No. Does this mean it's about the whole world? Yes. Right here and now though, these questions don't matter. The time to ask them is when the tap is turned off or shut-off and people around the world can't heat their homes, drive their cars or light their rooms. Ask them then, and find out what the answer may be... "The time to ask them is when the tap is turned off or shut-off and people around the world can't heat their homes, drive their cars or light their rooms. Ask them then, and find out what the answer may be"> And my friend, that is prolly the best solution. Maybe people will wake up and smell the coffee. I for one can sure fend for myself. So you see the USA as having the right to take over the worlds resources? Who the fuck are we GOD? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

I've worked for Perini on a few jobs. Bunch of little Italian mobsters. Punks. They all need to go dowm. Perini figuires ONE DEATH into the bid on their contracts(mostly casinos). They all need to rot in prison and if she's hooked up w/ them as well. I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Give it another year and one attack with WMD on our soil...we will get to see what this country is really made of. Ding Ding. We have a weiner. Can you say MARTIAL LAW? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

I'd prefer neither I think. If I had to choose though, I suppose whoever had the least brutal reputation would do. BTW, thats a very interesting argument towards this whole situation that I can honestly say I've never heard before. If GWB started testing his chemical weapons on the state of Nebraska, even if all the other 49 states didn't see a problem with it, I sure hope another country would be ever so kind to step in for me. I also think its very sad that you believe that its our goal to torture/mutilate/kill the Iraqi people. We eliminated the dictator that did these things to his own people. Some Iraqi's were happy, but the loyalists were not. We either pull out and let the civil war be fought and let the tyrrany continue, or we try to continue to stabilize the region and keep the reputation that we are there to kill/torture/mutilate the Iraqi people. I will never understand what's going on over there now, and its just plain sad. Yup, we screwed up, but I don't think we intended to turn the country into what it has become. Trust me. I helped build what we thought was a oil refinery in an (I can't say where) state in 1982 I think. Years later after a little digging I come to find out it was a poisonous manufacturing plant. SO. We can have so called WMD but no one else can? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

I hope everbody gets NUKES. Might give the US a reality check I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

That didn't exactly make sense to me, but I'll continue the discussion. It was not the US that led the effort to keep the Shah in power in the 1950s. This was because the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was being nationalized. The big picture is two-fold. Iran sees this as their change to replay the hostage card, again, this time against a major political power in the world. Any military officer can gauge a threat in their area of operations. Two "rubber rafts" that may be skirting a territorial line, conducting operations that have been under observation for months....years, present a tactical situation to a commander in the field. This was a planned, political execution of policy. It has nothing to do with what the US and UK did in the 1950s, and even if it did, risking war serves no one. The US was left licking its wounds in 1979-80. We did nothing to put the new fundamental regime in check. Political isolation did not help the situation. Iran reaped a great benefit from the first Gulf War in 1991. They reaped it again in 2003. Even quiet olive branches extended by the US to Iran during earthquake relief efforts were snubbed. Iran is not interested in its past to determine a future for itself. The UK is seeing a shadowy image of the US 30 years ago in its first encounter with extreme islamo-facism. This is a crisis. This was an assault on a lynch-pin within NATO, and I'm curious why NATO as a body has not responded. Godamn man. Why the fuck are we there in the first place? THATQuote IS THE BIG PICTURE. IS IT THAT HARD TO COMPERHEND? No disrespect intended. I did boot camp in 78 and told em to kiss my ass. Donno what else to say. I ain't going to INVADE A SOVERIEGN NATION FOR FUKIN OIL TO BENIFIT MY FRIENDS I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

SO. Why is it OUR, THE USA BUSINESS, other than oil. Getting you ( how do I say it, indoctrinated kids, maimed and killed) I don't know what to say anymore. You kids have to wake up and see the BIG PICTURE! I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

"Despite an overt act of aggression" > And the usa hasn't been doing this for yrs. You one of them warmongerers? Have stock in Halliburton? Or Bechtel? Or KBR? When the usa attack Iran, hope your driving a hybrid. And I can go on and on and on and ond on. How many puppets can the usa install. I lived thru this one in the Phillippines>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Marcos I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

"Iran 's been getting away w/ this shit for 30 yrs". The US govt. indoctrinated you well grasshopper> a little history> Who the fuck you think installed the Shah into power. >http://www.iranchamber.com/history/oil_nationalization/oil_nationalization.php More>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

I think they have sniper riflels That can hit a target at that distance. Am I mistaken? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

http://www.randycrow.com/articles/022707.htmAnd our SF and drones have been invading SOVERIGN territory for quite some time. Who are the bad guys? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Nevermind if Irainian oil gets cut off! I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Guess if you have the connections and the cash you don't do time. Fuckin assholes>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070329/ap_on_re_us/immigration_illegal_hiring_2SAN DIEGO - "Two executives at a company that once helped build a fence to keep illegal immigrants from crossing the Mexican border were sentenced Wednesday to six months of home confinement for hiring undocumented workers." I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Not meaning to hijack the thread but add this>(http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070327/62697703.html) into the mix and the middle east is a fuckin nitemare. "The latest military intelligence data point to heightened U.S. military preparations for both an air and ground operation against Iran," the official said, adding that the Pentagon has probably not yet made a final decision as to when an attack will be launched. He said the Pentagon is looking for a way to deliver a strike against Iran "that would enable the Americans to bring the country to its knees at minimal cost." I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Amen sister Nah I raised my hand once upon a time and swore this oath....."I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God" In fact I took that oath again.. during my 8 years of service... during the LAST war that was fought by a bunch of fucking incompetent assholes. That means a lot to me... and this administration has done quite a bit of harm to MY country....Perhaps some of the fascists should leave... or be tried by the World Court.... for crimes against humanity. No SwoopGod.. our leadership... incompetent as it has been for the last 6 years has insured that we will be fighting the islamofascists for years to come... war without end.... all for personal hubris.. and GREED. I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

So we should show no resolve when attacked? Fuck the soldiers and their families and let's paint a target on the back of everyone who serves from now on? The act of aggression has been committed. It can yet be undone but you are confused as to who the warmongers are. The warmongers are the multi corps and (rich) people that want to covet the worlds resources for themselves w/ military force. The whole house of cards is going to come down upon them soon my friend when everyone allies against the supposed good guys I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

"He said U.S. officials knew the GPS coordinates of the ship at the time of the incident, but would not release them publicly." ----------Another state secret comrade I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

As usual (after reading the few responses) the warmongerers underestimate the resolve of a soveriegn nation under attack by the USA (remember NAM). Alas. I see history repeating itself again. Doesn't anybody ever learn? Yeah, nuke em see the shit really start to fly I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

So. I guess I have to drink HOT beer for eternity? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

I'll stay for a bit. Til anarchy rules. Then I can really have some fun I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

http://www.bushmeat.org/cd/bushmeat_Webquest/ I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

http://www.stinkzone.com/cgi-bin/archives/000184.html"Annual deaths during Saddam rule: between 25,000 to 50,000 Annual deaths during U.S. Occupation: about 66,000" I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Donno. Ask my last wife. Prolly after she slept w/ my so called friends I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

Sure! Cheney's a sick man; he's going to die soon. He's not going to run anyway, no matter what. He's already the power behind the throne, so maybe the added pressure of being the actual President might make him code sooner. And you know who's next in line. Wrong answer. Can you say Karl Rove? I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.

The fact you can write this in a public forum, in plain language and with no fear of government reprisal should tell you otherwise. Trust me. You live in -such- a privileged country you don't even know what you have. Look at this thread. You guys are seriously concerned about the difference between 10 or 13 bullet magazines? WTF is that? Nothing. Not a god damn thing in the grand scheme of human rights. Not a god damn thing. "Waa waa! The Government won't let me shoot 3 more bullets before reloading! I'm so repressed! The government is out to get me!" Get a fuckin' clue guys. If the government was actually repressing you, this entire web site wouldn't exist. Yeah. And they are reading everything we print for the future. Get a clue I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.