stoneycase

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/12/AR2006041201114.html WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A recently retired two-star general who just a year ago commanded a U.S. Army division in Iraq on Wednesday joined a small but growing list of former senior officers to call on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign. "I believe we need a fresh start in the Pentagon. We need a leader who understands teamwork, a leader who knows how to build teams, a leader that does it without intimidation," Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who commanded the Germany-based 1st Infantry Division in Iraq, said in an interview on CNN. n recent weeks, retired Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton and Marine Corps Gen. Anthony Zinni all spoke out against Rumsfeld. This comes as opinion polls show eroding public support for the 3-year-old war in which about 2,360 U.S. troops have died. "You know, it speaks volumes that guys like me are speaking out from retirement about the leadership climate in the Department of Defense," Batiste said. "But when decisions are made without taking into account sound military recommendations, sound military decision making, sound planning, then we're bound to make mistakes." Batiste, a West Point graduate who also served during the previous Gulf War, retired from the Army on November 1, 2005. While in Iraq, his division, nicknamed the Big Red One, was based in Tikrit, and it wrapped up a yearlong deployment in May 2005. Critics have accused Rumsfeld of bullying senior military officers and disregarding their views. They often cite how Rumsfeld dismissed then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki's opinion a month before the 2003 invasion that occupying Iraq could require "several hundred thousand troops," not the smaller force Rumsfeld would send. Many experts believe that the chaos that ensued and the insurgency that emerged just months later vindicated Shinseki's view. Batiste told CNN "we've got the best military in the world, hands down, period." He did not say whether he felt the war was winnable. 'LACK OF SACRIFICE' "Whether we agree or not with the war in Iraq, we are where we are, and we must succeed in this endeavor. Failure is frankly not an option," Batiste said. Batiste said he was struck by the "lack of sacrifice and commitment on the part of the American people" to the war, with the exception of families with soldiers fighting in Iraq. "I think that our executive and legislative branches of government have a responsibility to mobilize this country for war. They frankly have not done so. We're mortgaging our future, our children, $8 to $9 billion a month," he said, referring to the cost of the war. He defined success in the war as "setting the Iraqi people up for self-reliance with their form of representative government that takes into account tribal, ethnic and religious differences that have always defined Iraqi society." "Iraqis, frankly, in my experience, do not understand democracy. Nor do they understand their responsibilities for a free society," Batiste said. Newbold, the military's top operations officer before the Iraq war, said in a Time magazine opinion piece on Sunday that he regretted having not more openly challenged U.S. leaders who took the United States into "an unnecessary war" in Iraq. Newbold encouraged officers still in the military to voice any doubts they have about the war. On Tuesday, Marine Corps Gen. Pete Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, defended Rumsfeld from the criticism. Rumsfeld said that "there's nothing wrong with people having opinions," and that criticism should be expected during a war as controversial as this one. /just another nutjob, i'm sure...no reason to believe the guy...he's retired after all...doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground....right??oh wait, there's more like him?! hmm.... //edited to add some bold. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

rather than discuss the details of anything happening now, it's *much more* beneficial to compare it to history and then just shirk it off as "equally as bad" or "not quite as bad". what's that saying? something like: "you can lose a republic on the installment plan just as efficiently as you can lose a republic in a single war" something like that... since now, is no worse than "before", and probably not any better - what have we done in the last few years? seems like we spent a helluva lot of money. does anyone know what we bought? oh that's right, we had to spend that money, we've got a War on Terrorism, like we've got a War on Drugs. i'm not paranoid, i don't believe in any "grand conspiracies". i'm a "shortest distance" guy. aka "the simplest answer is often the correct one because the shortest distance between two points is a straight line". i do believe in government accountability, for any administration - but particularly the administration that took an entire country into war. whether or not the war is justified, i don't care for the sake of argument. when you tend to do "big things" you tend to get looked at "a little deeper". funny how it works like that... so fine, if your argument is "this is no worse than before" than i guess i'm happy with that, you've owned up to the fact that this administration is useless, i.e. they've done us no good, and we're no better off with their 'leadership' (or lack thereof, depending on your perspective) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

something out of nothing... declassifying intel to a bunch of reporters to further your own political agenda. they outed specifics from the NIE report, at the time that they did, to the people that they chose, so that information would be published in support of their own personal political agenda. something out of nothing? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

non-story... that's right, i suppose...if you think that declassifying intelligence with the sole intent of countering your critics is the same as declassifying intelligence to someone with an actual "need-to-know" i'm waiting patiently for more details, i think libby's going to sing a bit more before this over. and with rove still under investigation, seems like this pot is going to be boiling for awhile. but really, it's frustrating as hell, to me at least, to sit here and listen to this administration say the Pres can declassify anything he wants - and this includes declassifying pre-war intel *secretively* to a select few reporterts with the distinct purpose of attacking reports made by his critics. that, to me, is f***ed and a completely bogus use of executive power to "catapult propaganda". why do you think Libby initial said "no" to the meetings with the reporters - he knew disclosing that NIE to them was questionable at best. when the VP came back and said "go fwd" with the blessing of the P - Libby *still* questioned the action and requested the assistance of legal counsel. Libby was looking to dot his I's and cross his T's because he knew he was being forced to climb out on a limb. he was being told to pass on what-was-then classified intel *secretively* to a select few reporter allies. i'm sorry, but to me, that seems like more than a "non-story" ymmv Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

my plan of action has been, and will continue to be built around one word: participation. and i'm not talking use here, funny, but not quite the point. but you are absolutely correct - talking about the issue is fine and dandy, but if change is what you seek - you must *act* LEAP, NORML, Safe Access Now - I belong. I participate. Locally I participate. Locally I support. I don't just give $, I don't just show up to listen to someone talk. I PARTICIPATE. There are quite a few people, actually, that choose to stand in the "grey" - protected by their state, their county, and their city(ies). That number grows every year. Thats my warm and fuzzy right there, my friend. Knowing that I don't participate alone, and knowing that tomorrow, brings the good chance that someone else will join in as well. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

state pen, eh? you must've missed what i wrote there...that's OK, i know the AF doesn't have high standards for reading comprehension. if you wanted your joke to make sense you should've used the well known "Federal Pound Me in The A$$ Prison", rather than the state pen. especially since the state that i live in *wouldn't* prosecute you, it would be the Federal Government. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

damn straight. hang on, and hopefully enjoy the ride. now if this just falls away, like some other "issues" have, i'm calling this game - it's f***ing rigged. from the cnn article: And in a House Judiciary Committee hearing Thursday, New York Rep. Jerrold Nadler quizzed Attorney General Alberto Gonzales about whether Bush could declassify documents "for political reasons." "The president is going to make the determination as to what's in the best interest of the country," Gonzales replied. just another tool. i wouldn't trust bush to make a *single* decision 'in the best interest of the country', but that's just me. however, to just blindly sit there and say "he's the man he does what's right for us all" pretty much sums up their entire circus. it's just too bad that they forgot 60 some-odd million voters would have rather *not* have bush make *any* decisions for them - let alone decisions like this one. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

ahahah, you know i left some rather creative answers in blue books during my college years. unfortunately i can see only one "creative" answer in the lot here, the rest are just sad. (the beat down answer is the one i'm referring to, +1 point for humor, -2 points for stupidity though) ever seen this? http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2002/hell-p1.php?fromrelated=1 IS HELL EXOTHERMIC (GIVES OFF HEAT) OR ENDOTHERMIC (ABSORBS HEAT)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed), or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following: _______________________ First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul goes to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities: 1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. 2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you", and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic, and will not freeze. _______________________ The student received the only 'A' given. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

yes use the process. the same way the process was used in the 30's against immigrants (specifically latino's and southern blacks) when they created that tax act in '37. in short: abuse the process, and manipulate the process to your own ends. it's really the only way to win in this country. "use the democratic process" thats like telling someone the way to washington d.c. from la is "due east". sure it is, but you're going to need to turn a few times before you get there. and until then, we'll keep wondering which LAW it is you're talking about. the city/county/state laws sanctioning the use, or decriminalizing possession? or are you talking about the federal laws criminalizing the possession of 1gram? oh wait, that's right, this is "the democratic process" we're talking about here it should be obvious that one law flies in the face of another. LEAP is another perfect example of sane, rational people who are able to think for themselves. It just so happens that these folks are in law enforcement, and I for one, couldn't be happier that they have chosen the "other" side to be on. at least if it doesn't change "on the books" in my lifetime, i'll know that it has changed in the hearts and the minds of the people. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

they've been doing this for years, and at many different levels. quite effectively i might add. i used to work for an IT firm that had City of SF and the City of South SF as (my) clients. both cities, of course, have mandatory applications for all vendors, and additional documentation and such. i can't remember the language exactly, though i'm sure it could be retrieved easily from the cities, but i definitely recall portions of the applications where the applicant had to agree they did not belong to, support, or provide funding to any organization or group that promoted discrimination. (and you can bet that the cities listed SEXUALITY as a basis of discrim, not just the std race, sex, origin, etc.) you also had to indicate whether or not your org/corp provided benefits to same-sex spouses of employees. better believe if you check that "no" box that there are NO requests coming your way. as a matter of fact, i know more than one large co that found that out the hard way. more than once, in my experiences, mfr's would partner with a vendor already "in" with SF or SSF to avoid the hassles of the application. SF has made the point - they don't want to work with, provide support to, or be a part of any group that is involved in discrimination, especially when it's based on sexuality. more power to them. knowing SF, i wouldn't be surprised if they turned off trash/other city services to the churches ;) sounds fine to me. you say you want to discriminate against same-sex couples, well you might want to think about that in SF, where a high % of the cities own workforce falls into that category. when they turn off your shit, why don't you go cry to the lord - i hear he made light in a day or something. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

i do love the simpsons...and "the jig is up quimby" "Before his indictment, I. Lewis Libby testified to the grand jury investigating the CIA leak that Cheney told him to pass on information and that it was Bush who authorized the disclosure, the court papers say." ... "But the disclosure in documents filed Wednesday means that the president and the vice president put Libby in play as a secret provider of information to reporters about prewar intelligence on Iraq." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/06/libby.ap/index.html here's to hoping this stays front page, for a long, long time. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

you know, me, personally - i would be more inclined to support your position if you had the mindset that firearms were neccessary for the individual to protect themselves *from the state* rather than from other individuals. (kind of the original idea, imho, some important folks had say, about 200+ yrs ago) but that's just me. i'd say i trust my neighbor, a hell of a lot more than i trust any boy in blue or LEO. if i have a firearm its not to protect me from thugs, it's to protect me from the state. ironically enough, there may be some parallel's between that idea and what you're talking about - enabling the individual to protect themselves rather than relying on the government (imo, your argument shows an *inherent* distrust of the gov, which is perfectly fine with me) not mine: because compulsory collection of taxes is de facto performed under threat of violence from a State, its subjects have the right to defend themselves from such extortion. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

actually, i've done auto claims with all 3. accident/glass/accident (none of the acci's my fault...) mercury was on par with usaa no problem. prompt responses, take it where you want, etc etc. the only thing with mercury is i have a local agent (a physical office and physical person i can interact with) - you don't get that with usaa - at least not in my area. progressive OTOH, was horrible. i wouldn't spend the time or effort to kick them in the nuts, if they were standing in front of me. actually, scratch that, i totally would, and i'd get a good laugh at it too. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

normally, when i'm trying to examine the evidence in support of an argument i try to go the source. i noticed in this thread a bunch of excellent sources (as usual) but this one totally stood out. of course so does Taylor610's (from the opposite side of the fence) i don't jump an ADD. i don't plan on buying one anytime soon. i've jumped at a few dz's, a handful or so, and none have required AAD's. if they had, i would've walked. sorry, no need to pay to rent your gear just to support your "device dependent safety precautions". it's your business, run it how you want (for all i care you could have everyone stand on their head, in a nice neat line conducting pin checks while we all wait for the plane, but i'd probably walk from that too ) imho, you'll get a lot farther in preaching and requiring adequate training, sound decision making, and proper execution of emergency procedures than you will in requiring a device be used by all skydivers. but im just a noob, with barely enough time in to not kill myself. don't listen to me. why not, instead of requiring an ADD, throw all your "new arrivals" into the hanging harness and throw the mal pictures at 'em? to me, that seems a little more benficial than checking to see if their AAD pocket has something it. does the DZO policy of requiring AAD's just reinforce the cultural value of - "safety through devices, rather than safety through proper training"? put simply, if DZO's give the perception that the AAD is mandatory if "you want to be safe" than what does that say about device-dependency in the sport? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

except USAA's car insurance rates are rather high. i went from usaa->progressive (drive)->mercury. happiest with mercury. cheapest as well. by damn near $600/yr. same coverage levels but no fancy website (bs anyway). but yes, usaa is nice, i use them for banking. if i can get car ins through them for a little less, i'd be all over it. quality folks. insurance companies, i'm sorry to say, fcuking suck. i pay for a certain coverage level, i expect that stated level of coverage. i should not have to 1 - followup for you, do your job. 2 - remind you to send me correct paperwork, do your job 3 - wait 3 days for a written estimate on damage to my vehicle (don't call me and tell me verbally and tell me "it's on the way"), do your job. 4 - fight for every inch of "reimbursement", i pay you to help me? oh wait no, that's right i just pay you to pay you, then i have to WORK for reimbursement, that's how it works.... sorry, you get no empathy from me, other than a huge congratulations, if you're one of the few doing their job. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

So you're ready to concede that 8 yrs in is a significant amount of service, no? You ready to admit that 3 tours in different combat zones is "enough" by your standards? You make him out to be a CO who's never seen a bullet before. Someone who landed in Iraq, spent 2 nights there and ran home. Did you miss the part where it said he did a tour in Afghanistan? I realize the two aren't the exactly the same, but I would think that there are enough similarities to get the point across... Fact of the matter is a CO probably "goes CO" well before they've been in 8 yrs, and been in 3 different combat zones. A CO doesn't make it to into "the elite". A CO doesn't get glowing words written about him from his commanding officers. You want to sell him short, fine go ahead. I won't. Fortunately, it doesn't look like his country sold him short, nor did his commanding officers - fancy that...wonder why... Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

jesus christ. did anyone read that PDF he linked to. let me be the first to say: holy $hit, john. very glad you and your son are OK, not to mention the rest of your family members that were directly in harm's way...that's just amazing, and incredibly sad that your family, and your son had to deal with the entire mess. to summarize for those that didn't read the PDF: 1. john had crazy neighbor 2. crazy neighbor purchases gun & ammo 3. john's son, john, is playing b-ball at home in the driveway 4. crazy neighbor pulls a driveby with a shotgun, misses most of little john and the rest of the family that's outside, but little john is hit with birdshot 5. crazy neighbor proceeds to go shooting rampage where he takes aim at, and kills, quite a few people, including two police officers 6. crazy man gets death for the 2 cops, and life for each person he killed 8. crazy man appeals for new trial 9. subsequently denied /correct me if i'm wrong here john, i wasn't able to read the whole thing in detail. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

you gotta be joking me, you're selling this guy short because *you say* he wasn't in the SAS long enough. obviously he just got cold feet and went home crying to mommy, right? try again: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml It immediately brought to an end Mr Griffin's exemplary, eight-year career in which he also served with the Parachute Regiment, taking part in operations in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan. hmm, lets see, 8yrs in. Parachute Regiment. At least 3 tours in combat zones. 1 tour practically in the same neighborhood...yup, definitely a pansy who got cold feet... Instead, he was discharged with a testimonial describing him as a "balanced, honest, loyal and determined individual who possesses the strength of character to have the courage of his convictions". and rather than bouncing him out they send him off with a hand shake and nice words. sounds to me like he was, at the very least, an above average soldier and his commander's recognized this. seems to me like we're having a harder and harder time calling this guy a pansy... Last night Patrick Mercer, the shadow minister for homeland security, said: "Trooper Griffin is a highly experienced soldier. This makes his decision particularly disturbing and his views and opinions must be listened to by the Government." lastly, you've got a government official, in an executive defense role. confirming his service record. wow, it's gonna be a tough sell if you continue to label him as "not being able to hack the duty" btw, there's is a big difference between the traditional term of conscientous objector - which is normally reserved for those individuals that *despise* war and violence in general, and someone who has done previous tours of duties in combat zones and decided that this conflict is "illegal". here's a hint toward the difference, one is very broad and it covers *war in general*. the other is very specific, and it focuses on *one specific conflict*. so what say you? is this man just a pansy who couldn't hack it? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

well, your list is longer than mine, but i think you've at least "got a plan". i've got a hope, prayer, and a hell of a lot of hard work ahead of me. i'd say i'm about $40-$45K in, at age 25. solid $30-$35K in student loans that i pay monthly now (10 year plan @

jesus... you'd think that a talented soldier leaving the SAS as a result of the iraqi war would at least be worth a, "well, to each their own" or whatever, but no, you get a "get the f*** out, and do it fast" type comment. nice. yeah, because, the military is just having a grand ol' time recruiting at the moment (yes yes, this is the SAS not the US Army...I understand...) they shouldn't worry one bit about stuff like this, no sir... Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

this is really interesting to me... first, the war, imho, was a reaction to 9/11 then, the focus was WMD, and a war to remove WMD from the hands of a 'mad dictator' when times started to change, the focus switched from WMD to spreading the rule law, and expanding democracy. allowing freedom to flourish, etc etc. now we're still on that focus, but we seem to have switched to exactly what CDRINF is talking about - a war on radical islam and the terrorism that tends to go along hand-in-hand. it's no longer a war in iraq, it's a "war on terrorism". sadly, i know in my heart that this war will end up the same as the war on drugs. it will go on indefinitely, with no winners to speak of, only money spent and valuable time wasted. to all the feet on the street, i wish you luck and i hope you return safely. your desire to sacrifice for god and country is outstanding, but i am ashamed of the direction and leadership this commander in chief has provided you thus far. you deserve better. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

Yup, I'd buy it. Msg or PM as you get closer to being finished. I have a friend who's worked as a buyer for large adult video store here in SB for 2+ yrs. Depending on what traction he can get with his bosses (2 gay guys, story for another time...) he should be able to buy a couple copies and put them on the shelves. I can't remember exactly, but I think he told me they buy 80+ titles a month, or was that a week, hell I can't remember, but it seemed like a lot at the time. Have fun...I'm so jealous...I want a porn star for a wife, secretly, but I only want her to star in *my* movies ;) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

looks good! i see you're still workin on parts of it, but overall, the look and feel is very nice. love this pic in your gallery: http://www.funairphotos.com/gallery/pages/russiansV.html it's nice that you use a medium res for your free photo's. i complete understand the need to watermark, and use smaller res/size photo's for the web, but it sure is nice to click into the gallery and see the shot come to life rather than have to squint to see the detail. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

damn straight, on 2 counts: 1 - clapton's version is an abomination 2 - he said, "kill it before it grows..." i'm a have to go with the "it's a public school, there's zero tolerance for anything: fighting, weapons, sex, drugs, creativity, individuality..." gotta teach the kid that school = box, gotta wait till your somewhere else to really *think outside the box* until then, stay in line, keep quiet, and leave your "violent" music at the door /perhaps you can buy your son a marley shirt and send him to school in it? maybe the teacher will get it, maybe she won't ;) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

dude, you forgot the lead-in...ya need it to have the whole thing make sense.... ;) add this, at the beginning (although it is not technically the beginning) And a good south wind sprung up behind ; The Albatross did follow, And every day, for food or play, Came to the mariner's hollo ! In mist or cloud, on mast or shroud, It perched for vespers nine ; Whiles all the night, through fog-smoke white, Glimmered the white Moon-shine.' `God save thee, ancient Mariner ! From the fiends, that plague thee thus !-- Why look'st thou so ?'--With my cross-bow I shot the ALBATROSS. Out of the sea came he, Still hid in mist, and on the left Went down into the sea. The sun now rose upon the right And the good south wind still blew behind, But no sweet bird did follow, Nor any day for food or play Came to the mariners' hollo ! ... the rhyme of the ancient mariner. excellent use of it though, i must say...damn! Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell